Outback v. Cougar

[gslane1958]

Hi everyone... we're in the market for a TT and have narrowed it down to a few models. Based on features and size, we like (1) Cougar 28RLS, (2) Outback 272UFL, and the (3) Outback 278URL.

What I noticed after we narrowed the search down is the Cougars and Outbacks are fairly similar, but the Cougars seem to be a bit pricier. So I have a couple of questions for the experienced Keystone owners...

(1) Is my perception of the price difference accurate, or did I probably just miss some extra features on the Cougar when I compared the models?

(2) If there is a real price difference, is it worth it to step up to the Cougar? I realize "worth" is a very personal thing... I find worth in the functionality and quality/sturdiness of the contruction. I don't put as much value on things like nicer paint schemes and richer looking materials. Nothing wrong with these things, just not my preference.

For reference, the prices of the 2 Outback models were very close. The Cougar was about $4,000 higher.

If the prices were all about the same, I'd probably go with the Cougar. It has a great layout and pretty much all the features we need.

The 272UFL has a great layout as well, but a couple of negatives... (1) small gray tank and (2) new ( or revived, not sure which) model. The small gray tank isn't a deal breaker since we usually camp with full hook-ups, but it's nice to have the extra capacity when needed.

The 278URL's layout comes in last, but not by much. It does, however, have a reasonably sized gray tank.

I have some experience with Outbacks and it was all very positive. No experience with Cougars.

[JRTJH]

Outback builds two "lines" of travel trailer, the Ultra-lite and the Super-lite. The Super-lite is closer to the Cougar XLite in construction and features, but there are still some "unseen" differences that you might want to consider:

1. Outback tires are 205 75R 14 LRC Cougar tires are 225 75R15 LRD.
2. Outback has 10" brakes, Cougar has 12" brakes.
3. Outback has standard stabilizer jacks, Cougar has 4 point "levelup" system
4. Outback uses a BAL "ultralight" frame Cougar uses a Lippert "heavier" frame.
5. Cougar has an exterior shower, I don't think Outback offers one.
6. Cougar has "solar prep" (whatever that means), Outback does not.
7. Cougar offers a free standing table/chairs, Outback does not.
8. Most Cougars are 50 amp shore power, most Outback's are 30 amp power. It will become a significant consideration if you consider a second air conditioner in the future.

I believe either trailer is built to the same type of construction, quality and appliance brands, so there's not a lot of difference between the two brands as far as "expectations of no problems". I don't think either has an edge on quality.

[TAZ23]

We owned a 2012 Outback 320BH and currently have a 2015 Cougar 334RDB (fiver). We really liked the Outback and equally like our Cougar. When we decided to get a new trailer it was the floor plan that sold us. They both were roughly the same build quality but as John stated the Cougars frame and brakes are a little bit beefier. That doesn't mean the Outback is not up to the task, just something to think about. The four point level up is a really nice feature. We have it on our Cougar and are spoiled by it. Just position the trailer where you want it and push the start button and watch as the trailer levels itself. Its just my opinion but I would go with the trailer you like the best, only you can decide which trailer is best suited for you. Personally I would not hesitate to buy either brand again.

[gslane1958]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Outback builds two "lines" of travel trailer, the Ultra-lite and the Super-lite. The Super-lite is closer to the Cougar XLite in construction and features, but there are still some "unseen" differences that you might want to consider:

1. Outback tires are 205 75R 14 LRC Cougar tires are 225 75R15 LRD.
2. Outback has 10" brakes, Cougar has 12" brakes.
3. Outback has standard stabilizer jacks, Cougar has 4 point "levelup" system
4. Outback uses a BAL "ultralight" frame Cougar uses a Lippert "heavier" frame.
5. Cougar has an exterior shower, I don't think Outback offers one.
6. Cougar has "solar prep" (whatever that means), Outback does not.
7. Cougar offers a free standing table/chairs, Outback does not.
8. Most Cougars are 50 amp shore power, most Outback's are 30 amp power. It will become a significant consideration if you consider a second air conditioner in the future.

I believe either trailer is built to the same type of construction, quality and appliance brands, so there's not a lot of difference between the two brands as far as "expectations of no problems". I don't think either has an edge on quality.

Thanks John... that's exactly what I was looking for. It sounds like the Cougar would be worth a little extra money, but it's good to know the Outback can hold it's own as well.

We're planning to walk through the Outbacks this weekend. I don't think the dealer has a Cougar 28RLS in stock unfortunately.

You mentioned possibly adding another AC unit later... is that a fairly common thing to do? Seems like it would be a costly and complicated upgrade. Will the single unit struggle to cool this size trailer?

Thanks again for the info... excellent forum.

[gslane1958]

Originally Posted by TAZ23

We owned a 2012 Outback 320BH and currently have a 2015 Cougar 334RDB (fiver). We really liked the Outback and equally like our Cougar. When we decided to get a new trailer it was the floor plan that sold us. They both were roughly the same build quality but as John stated the Cougars frame and brakes are a little bit beefier. That doesn't mean the Outback is not up to the task, just something to think about. The four point level up is a really nice feature. We have it on our Cougar and are spoiled by it. Just position the trailer where you want it and push the start button and watch as the trailer levels itself. Its just my opinion but I would go with the trailer you like the best, only you can decide which trailer is best suited for you. Personally I would not hesitate to buy either brand again.

Thanks Taz... good to hear from someone who has owned both brands. I was very happy with my previous Outback, but it was the only TT I've owned, so didn't have anything to compare it to.

I'm really liking the Cougar, but I think I'd be very happy with the Outback at a little lower price point also. I'll have to see how far the dealer will come down on the Cougar.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by gslane1958

Thanks John... that's exactly what I was looking for. It sounds like the Cougar would be worth a little extra money, but it's good to know the Outback can hold it's own as well.

We're planning to walk through the Outbacks this weekend. I don't think the dealer has a Cougar 28RLS in stock unfortunately.

You mentioned possibly adding another AC unit later... is that a fairly common thing to do? Seems like it would be a costly and complicated upgrade. Will the single unit struggle to cool this size trailer?

Thanks again for the info... excellent forum.

The 2nd AC is a personal choice predicated on where you want to go and the typical types of temperatures you're going to encounter. We have 2; one 15k and one 13.5k and wouldn't have it any other way. If you want to travel to hot country (desert SW etc. or the South) you definitely want the 2nd AC. It was a no brainer for us but that decision is in you court.

[gslane1958]

Originally Posted by sourdough

The 2nd AC is a personal choice predicated on where you want to go and the typical types of temperatures you're going to encounter. We have 2; one 15k and one 13.5k and wouldn't have it any other way. If you want to travel to hot country (desert SW etc. or the South) you definitely want the 2nd AC. It was a no brainer for us but that decision is in you court.

Makes sense. We'll be camping mostly on the east coast ( mid-atlantc ), at least for the first couple of seasons. Maybe look into that a couple years down the road... we're not planning to upgrade again any time soon, but I know that can change quickly.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by gslane1958

Makes sense. We'll be camping mostly on the east coast ( mid-atlantc ), at least for the first couple of seasons. Maybe look into that a couple years down the road... we're not planning to upgrade again any time soon, but I know that can change quickly.

If you're not planning to upgrade any time soon, consider that 50 amp service is "quite affordable" to install when an RV is built and is much more expensive when "added later". 50 amp service is "almost mandatory" if you want to even consider the potential of adding a second A/C later in your ownership. Also, look closely at trailers, you'll find that many (maybe most) that have 50 amp power already have the wiring and circuit breaker installed for a second A/C. I don't know of any 30 amp trailers that have "installed wiring for a second A/C".

There are a couple of "work arounds" to install a second A/C, but in the latest issue of Trailer Life, when asked that question by a reader, the "expert at TL" indicated that under current NEC codes prohibit installing a "second power source/circuit" in an RV.

So, if you're going to purchase an RV and have any thoughts about adding more electrical equipment, I'd urge you to consider options now that won't limit your choices when that time comes.....

[byrdr1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If you're not planning to upgrade any time soon, consider that 50 amp service is "quite affordable" to install when an RV is built and is much more expensive when "added later". 50 amp service is "almost mandatory" if you want to even consider the potential of adding a second A/C later in your ownership. Also, look closely at trailers, you'll find that many (maybe most) that have 50 amp power already have the wiring and circuit breaker installed for a second A/C. I don't know of any 30 amp trailers that have "installed wiring for a second A/C".

There are a couple of "work arounds" to install a second A/C, but in the latest issue of Trailer Life, when asked that question by a reader, the "expert at TL" indicated that under current NEC codes prohibit installing a "second power source/circuit" in an RV.

So, if you're going to purchase an RV and have any thoughts about adding more electrical equipment, I'd urge you to consider options now that won't limit your choices when that time comes.....

Mid-Atlantic, not sure where that is? VA and above?
but I am in NC and I can tell you the second AC is very handy to have in the heat & humidity of NC, SC, lower VA, Tenn and any state below NC.
it has been nice having it added when we bought the Cougar with 50amp service.
just saying, better to get it up front than have to add later or heaven forbid upgrade again..
the wife and I are at odds on this subject at this time. I am ready to upgrade while I have a few more years to work and she has even more. I want a new to me truck and a new 5er for retirement..


randy

[msp2jxr]

The level up feature is worth around $3,500 to have installed. I feel it is well worth investment for the weekend warrior who is constantly setting up and taking down. Sometimes it is almost impossible to get a trailer level with blocks and the level up system is hit a button and walk away. That is the main cost in the two trailers and worth the money in my opinion.

[canesfan]

As John said, it's MUCH cheaper to have it wired for 50 amp service, it's usually a package to brace and wire for the second AC. I don't remember but it seems like it's maybe a couple hundred $ if that. Then if you want to add one it's all ready to go. The hardest part is getting it up on the roof.

If Middletown is Deleware like I'm guessing and you want to travel up and down the coast some, in the Summer, I would suggest getting a second. I'm not all that far below you and it gets REALLY hot in the camper in the Summer here. I screwed up when I bought this one thinking I'll try it with only one AC and see if I need to add another. When I bought it my thinking was I never camped in the Summer, mostly Spring and Fall and I'd be OK. Not so. I started camping in the Summer and the AC runs constantly and can barely manage say 85* if I'm lucky, more like 90*. When it's in the 90s outside with the humidity around here it's pretty obnoxious. A shaded site helps a little, but you can't always depend on a shaded site.

Fortunately my thinking process was half right and I ordered it wired for the second AC. It's on the list to add this Spring.

Also, the level up system is worth every penny in my opinion. I doubt I'd ever consider another rig without it. One of the best features is when you get there, you push a button, have a cold one while it does its thing, and you're good to go.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by gslane1958

Makes sense. We'll be camping mostly on the east coast ( mid-atlantc ), at least for the first couple of seasons. Maybe look into that a couple years down the road... we're not planning to upgrade again any time soon, but I know that can change quickly.

I think others have mentioned it but to us most of the middle east coast is hot; primarily due to humidity I suppose because we aren't used to it so a 2nd AC is necessary. Before we added our 2nd AC we spent some time in the trailer in hot humid weather when the AC couldn't get the temps where we like them. Our options were to sit in the shade in the camper and sweat, find some shade somewhere and sweat, get in the truck and ride with the ac or go to a Walmart, museum, etc. to cool off.

On 50 amp/2nd AC wiring; do it. If you are going to get a trailer of any size it's pretty much a no brainer and costs next to nothing on initial purchase.

The level up system; I've not had one but I'm currently looking (in fact CW Tallahassee brought one in for us to see today) at a new trailer and that is one of the items I want. Good luck.

[gslane1958]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I'm convinced the Cougar is the way to go. I believe the 28RLS has 50 amp service and is pre-wired for 2nd AC unit. I'll have to confirm that to be sure.

The biggest advantage to the level up system will be, as Canesfan mentioned, sitting back with a cold one. I'll then be able to watch my brother-in-law level his manually.

Visiting the dealership tomorrow... will post results.

[gslane1958]

Originally Posted by canesfan

As John said, it's MUCH cheaper to have it wired for 50 amp service, it's usually a package to brace and wire for the second AC. I don't remember but it seems like it's maybe a couple hundred $ if that. Then if you want to add one it's all ready to go. The hardest part is getting it up on the roof.

If Middletown is Deleware like I'm guessing and you want to travel up and down the coast some, in the Summer, I would suggest getting a second. I'm not all that far below you and it gets REALLY hot in the camper in the Summer here. I screwed up when I bought this one thinking I'll try it with only one AC and see if I need to add another. When I bought it my thinking was I never camped in the Summer, mostly Spring and Fall and I'd be OK. Not so. I started camping in the Summer and the AC runs constantly and can barely manage say 85* if I'm lucky, more like 90*. When it's in the 90s outside with the humidity around here it's pretty obnoxious. A shaded site helps a little, but you can't always depend on a shaded site.

Fortunately my thinking process was half right and I ordered it wired for the second AC. It's on the list to add this Spring.

Also, the level up system is worth every penny in my opinion. I doubt I'd ever consider another rig without it. One of the best features is when you get there, you push a button, have a cold one while it does its thing, and you're good to go.

You're actually pretty close to my brother-in-law. He lives in Hampton. We're looking for good campgrounds between us ( you are correct... Middletown, DE ). Any suggestions?

[canesfan]

Sent you a PM.

[canesfan]

Originally Posted by gslane1958

The biggest advantage to the level up system will be, as Canesfan mentioned, sitting back with a cold one. I'll then be able to watch my brother-in-law level his manually.

Visiting the dealership tomorrow... will post results.

LOL. You will also probably meet more people than usual. I always have someone stop or come over to watch it "do its thing". I so do not miss fussing with those boards any longer. Some of the best money I ever spent.

[gslane1958]

Thanks again to everyone for the advice and information. We went to the dealership yesterday to walk through the 3 models and any others that looked interesting.

Good news and bad news...

Bad news... they don't sell Cougars. I assumed they sold all Keystone products, but apparently it doesn't always work that way.

Good news... we knew the Outback 272UFL was the one for us as soon as we walked through it. Felt like home. So we decided to end the search and go for it. Can't wait for some warmer weather.

[canesfan]

Congratulations!!!

[TAZ23]

Nice floorplan. We almost bought one similar to it in 2012. Only then it was a Outback 260 something. Congrats on your decision and best of luck with it. You may want to look into the possibility of adding the level up system to it.

[Tbos]

Congrats, that's a nice floor plan. There is a big Good Sam Rally in Harrington at the Fairgrounds in Sept 8-10th. We went last year and had a good time. Folks come from all over the east coast.


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