Arrgghh....Floorplans!

[englishmatt]

Hi Guys,

Family and I are excited to become first time RV'ers. Now comes the hard part...deciding on a FP. I will be towing with Tundra 1/2 ton. Rated to 10,400lbs.

We've narrowed it down to the Bullet Premier 32BHPR (TT - 6,400lbs) or the Cougar x-lite 28RDB (FW - 7,600lbs). I am familiar with the benefits and advantages over a 5er vs. TT from a functional towing standpoint...but I have no experience between the long-term benefits between the "Cougar" or the "Bullet Premier" line.

I know Floorplans are all about personal taste and individual use cases, but I can't honestly decide between the two.

I've been inside what feels like 100 FPs over the past several weeks.

Any thoughts between the two or experiences to share?

[Festus2]

As you have discovered, FP's are just that - "all about personal taste and individual use cases". So what we like about our Cougar's FP doesn't really matter.

Obviously, the first step is to get a good, safe match up between your TV and TT. If you don't then the most appealing FP in the world will be for naught. If you have narrowed it down between those two TT, then I assume you have done your homework and found that they are a well-matched pair.

You didn't mentioned whether or not you have children and; if so, how old they are. Little ones need this, bigger ones would like that so you might keep that in mind when making your decision. Keep in mind, however, that if your children are teenagers, they won't be camping with you in the long term and what they need or want now may not be what you want when they no longer want to come camping with you or have left the nest. Floor plans may vary with the ages of your children.

How much input from your children will you entertain when making your decision? Is this a mom and dad thing or do you involve the kids in that process? My "children" are far too old to ask and not sure if I would include them anyway ---- old school talking here.

Whatever FP you select, make sure that the adults agree on it. Mom might focus her attention on the kitchen (might focus is the key here) and its layout. Storage space is always something to consider. Is there enough of it? Are the upper shelves reachable or do I need a stepstool?

Will we be "entertaining" other couples or friends? Will we be taking friends along - other than family members? How much time will we be actually spending inside? Do we watch a lot of TV while camping?

There are so many factors to consider and unfortunately YOU will have to decide. Oh yes, we really enjoy our Cougar --- 5th wheel. Looks like you are convinced that a TT is better but we will leave that debate for another day...... Cheers.

[englishmatt]

Thanks for the reply. The kids are 12 and 14 and have been a part of the process, with discussions from bunk houses to the double bed features in these trailers.

That's another problem decision, the kids are in the inbetween age... That said, its a mom/dad decision.

I am leaning toward the FW simply because it provides more room to move and has a ton of storage.

Either unit is a proper nice unit, I'm just trying to make sure I've done my due diligence.

I believe my 1/2 ton Tundra will pull both with ease, but I will be adding airbags (because I have them already).

The problem is that BOTH units put checks in all the same boxes. I wish there was a disqualifyer...but there doesn't appear to be one.

..........

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[Festus2]

Originally Posted by englishmatt

I believe my 1/2 ton Tundra will pull both with ease, but I will be adding airbags (because I have them already).

.......

You realize, of course, that adding airbags will do nothing to increase your towing capacity. They can make for a smoother ride and help to level out the two units when hooked up but that is the extent of their usefulness.

It will probably be too late but you might consider taking the ready-to-camp Tundra and TT to a weigh scale to confirm whether your belief that your Tundra will pull both with ease. I assume you have gone through all the relevant weights and numbers and that you are quite certain that the two are well-matched and you won't be on the edge or maxed out with the Tundra and either one of the two front-runners.

[englishmatt]

Festus,

Yes, I am confident in the weights and measures for the Tundra. I am not new to towing and or payloads, I am new to RV'ing...so my questions are with regards to the product lines and experiences anyone has had.

I understand the purpose of the airbags and will add them to make sure the TV and the TT are as level as possible. That said, thank you for the explanation...I know these things can be confusing.


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[JRTJH]

Englishmatt,

It sounds almost like you're about to buy a fifth wheel or travel trailer to tow with your Tundra by using the "advertised empty weights" to judge your capability. Please remember that a "properly loaded" travel trailer will have a tongue weight of 11-15% of total weight and a "properly loaded" fifth wheel will have a pin weight of 15-25% of total weight.

Most of us use the GVW of the RV to determine what range the tongue/pin weight will fall into. The Primere will fall between 850 and 1140 lbs and the Cougar XLite will fall between 1500 and 2500 lbs (depending on how you load it) As you can see, with your Tundra's payload, by the time you put yourself and 3 passengers in the truck, there's precious little payload left for even a small fifth wheel, let alone one with a realistic pin weight of nearly 2000 lbs.

With the family you have (weight wise) and adding a little cargo to the truck (kid's games, etc used while travelling) you simply won't find a 30' RV bunkhouse model that will remain under your payload. Now, as for GCWR and "maximum advertised towing capability" you will find that Toyota, along with all the other manufacturers are "optimistic" with their ratings, but the actual payload is most often the limiting factor for all of us.

Good luck with your search, please remember the safety of your family is much more important than the convenience of a "large size" RV.....

[englishmatt]

Thank you for your post. I will review the numbers again.

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[KanTC]

Originally Posted by englishmatt

.....I will review the numbers again.

Englishmatt,

When "crunching the numbers" keep in mind that you'll also need to allow for the weight of the hitch [itself] too.

A weight distribution hitch can weigh approx 100 lbs.
A 5th wheel hitch is considerably heavier at 200-250 lbs (or more) depending on the brand.

Terri, the Chevy co-pilot

[englishmatt]

Ok...so here's my thoughts/findings.

Took my truck to a junk year with a scale....with ME and a FULL tank of Gas. The Curb Weight is 5480 (rounding up).

2012 Tundra Work Edition with Tow Package

Truck Weight = 5,480
Wife and kids = 350
FW Hitch = 150 (I'll split the 100-200 lbs)
Hitch Weight of XLITE = 1,304

TOTAL Weight is 7,284lbs (with a FW hitch)
note: GVWR of truck is 6,990lbs

Now on to the Trailer:

Cougar xlite 28RDB:

Dry Weight = 7,699
Stuff in it = 1,000 (maxed out would be 2300 which I cant ever see loading to 2300)

TOTAL TRAILER TOWED WEIGHT = 8,699 (not incl the hitch weight)
note: Max allowable TWR is 10,400

TOTAL GCWR = (8,699 + 7,284) = 15,983
note: Max allowable GCWR is 16,000

************************************************** *****

BULLET PREMIER 32BHPR


2012 Tundra Work Edition with Tow Package

Truck Weight = 5,480
Wife and kids = 350
Reg Hitch = 100
Hitch Weight of 32BHPR = 735

TOTAL Weight is 6,665lbs
note: GVWR of truck is 6,990lbs

Now on to the Trailer:

Dry Weight = 6,180
Stuff in it = 1,000 (maxed out would be 1400)

TOTAL TRAILER TOWED WEIGHT = 7,180 (not incl the hitch weight)
note: Max allowable TWR is 10,400

TOTAL GCWR = (7,180 + 6,990) = 13,845
note: Max allowable GCWR is 16,000

************************************************** ********

No doubt about it, the 32BHPR is an easier fit for the TV.

That said, I've been towing a race trailer for about 2yrs with this truck that is almost 11,000 lbs without any issues at all. If I did the wieghts and measures on that trailer....i'm sure I'd be

Perhaps sanity has kicked in and now I'm really analyzing the data...

FWIW - I'm am NOT suggesting the Tundra can pull a spaceship, I'm just trying to decide on which trailer since the Truck can be upgraded much sooner and less expensively than the Trailer.

Also - didn't mean for this to turn into a Tow thread....sorry people.

[Javi]

Note that tongue and pin weights are dependent on the loading of the trailer and the published weights are often suspect. Tongue weight should be between 10% and 15% of trailer gross. Pin weight should be between 20% and 25% of the trailer gross.

[JRTJH]

We just bought a new Cougar XLite 27RKS. On the first trip out of town, I stopped at the scales to weigh the rig. Pin weight of the "empty" RV is advertised by Keystone at 1230 lbs. With full propane, two 6volt batteries and an estimated 800 lbs of personal cargo, the actual pin weight was 1728. Total trailer weight advertised is 7136 and actual weight was 8477. The water tank (43 gallons) was full so that is about 375 pounds of that total. Keep in mind that the FW tank on the 27 RKS is very near the rear bumper so the water weight actually removes at least half of its weight from the pin by counterbalancing at the axles.

Since then, we have added probably another 400-500 lbs of cargo to the truck or the trailer when we travel to a "dry camp" area. That's the generator, a couple of 6 gallon water jugs, gas can, blue tank and other items we think make dry camping easier/more convenient.

Actually, I would say to suspect to add at least half the advertised pin weight when an RV is loaded for "average use" and to add at least 35% (probably 40%) to the tongue weight when loaded for use.

[timd3200]

Floor plans are so hard to chose from. Like one poster said. What works for me will not be the best for you. We bought a copper canyon 298 FW bunkhouse. It works great for our family right now. In 4 years kids will all be gone to college and our needs will change. When it does we most probably up grade at that time. Find the one that works best for you and DW. Your kids age means they will be with you for several years yet. Keep that in mind. TT have better resale if they are bunk houses. You may keep that in mind. You could always up grade to a 5ver after the kids leave for college. On the TV thoughts. Wind resistance is a major factor don't forget that. On real windy days I have thought about staying another day because of my TV could be bigger. I have a Ford 250 with 4.10 rear end.

[Ken / Claudia]

There has been no mention of Payload. What is the trucks rated payload. You have 1300 or 735 sitting it the truck(empty trailer) likely alot more. Which would tow better. I do not know that trucks payload but, a 5er loaded, truck full of people gear etc. Factory tires likey are not rated to carry those wt.s. I would get the lightest trailer I could, as long(feet) as you dare. Get to the scales as soon as you can and weight everything. Put a parachute on top of the race car trailer and pull it down the road, that might be like a bad windy day with the 5er. LOL, the RVs do pull different. Good Luck on what ever you get.

[englishmatt]

All,

Advice taken, I now own a new 2013 Dodge 2500 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel.

Lol.....errrr.....I think I am "chips all in" on the RV thing.

Now I can look at bigger trailers!

Cheers,

Matt.

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[JRTJH]

Congratulations on the new truck, but don't forget that 3/4 ton trucks also have a payload LOL There are a couple of threads in the recent past where members with F250/C2500 trucks and "half ton fifth wheels" decided to stop by the scales "just to see" and were SHOCKED that they were within a couple hundred pounds of max payload.

So, still keep a sharp eye on the figures. Yes, you can look at "bigger campers" but still not the "really big campers"