Propane leak

Keywestparrothead · 05-06-2015, 05:13 PM

So I thought I had a second bad auto changeover regulator or HP regulator on the far side tank. We discussed these options here;

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...t=19889&page=2

So I bring the camper home from the last trip in Feb and the neighbor is watching me back in and says "I think I smell propane". I had the fridge on propane on the way home and the odor dissipates quickly when I setup. Turns out it dissipates because it is no longer running on gas and no longer leaking from this 1/4" gash/split in the gas line under the camper!

It is well shielded, by the front axel, from any type of impact (although I assume a stray rock or something could pop up between and hit it).

I brought home the camper last weekend to do the spring maintenance and replace the HP regulator. Still thinking that was the issue, and when replacing it wouldn't allow gas to flow from the passenger side tank, I hear gas flowing and a faint hiss. Thats when I track it down to the split under the camper.

My question is does it look reparable? I haven't dropped the coraplast to see how much excess is available to cut the bad section and use a new compression fitting to repair. I'm open to ideas, got a month before my next trip :-)

**chuckster57** · 05-06-2015, 05:41 PM

If it's the flex line that is damaged, replace it. After you replace it, use wiring split loom to cover it. Split loom is cheap and readily available at any parts store or cheaper yet Harbor Freight. I wouldn't bother with an attempted repair.

Keywestparrothead · 05-06-2015, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

If it's the flex line that is damaged, replace it. After you replace it, use wiring split loom to cover it. Split loom is cheap and readily available at any parts store or cheaper yet Harbor Freight. I wouldn't bother with an attempted repair.

Thanks Chuckster57 - I pulled back the split loom up to the point it enters the coraplast, and it seems to be a rubber coated copper tube, not flex line. I hope to cut the coraplast tomorrow to see if I can see the point of termination. If I can, then should I be able to replace with flex line?

**chuckster57** · 05-06-2015, 06:25 PM

Now that I'm home and on my tablet and not my phone, I can see the pics better. Depending on how far the "run" is, I would be inclined to replace with flex anyway.

Keywestparrothead · 05-07-2015, 05:15 PM

I was able to pull the the coraplast back and the copper tube is one single piece all the way to the oven connection. It is about 8' from connection to connection. I pulled the pipe, cut the end and off to the big box hardware stores... no one has a flex pipe.

Anyone replace this connection, with flex pipe, and have specific manufacturer or part numbers? The 2 ends have compression fittings and that seems to be the challenge for the big box and even a local Ace Hardware.

Many thanks for any help and guidance.

**JRTJH** · 05-07-2015, 05:42 PM

All of the "older" RV's used copper tubing (usually 3/8") to run propane to each of the appliances. The fittings were flared fittings. You can buy a 1/2" "black iron" pipe to 3/8" copper flare, a 3/8" flare fitting to adapt to the range gas input and build a copper supply line for about $25. In years past, when copper was "reasonably priced" it would have cost less than $5 to do the job. But, I digress, I haven't seen any compression fittings on Cougars, at least mine is flare fittings, but that surely doesn't mean that Keystone hasn't used them recently.

Check out the "old fashioned" flare fittings, they work well and are easy to build from simple, easily found parts that are available at almost every big box store...

If you need any help, just post, I'll get pictures and part numbers for anything you can't locate in your nearest store.

Good Luck

Keywestparrothead · 05-07-2015, 06:25 PM

Thank you John. It does seem that my fitting is a flare and not a compression on each end (attached is what both ends look like). I was trying to avoid rebuilding the entire line from copper, mostly due to the exposure of about 4' under the camper where the split first occurred. Instead, i was hoping to replace with a flex pipe that might offer some shielding to provide additional protection.

I'm not sure why Keystone only went half way across the camper with iron pipe, and I might actually look to replace that pipe with one longer that would minimize copper exposure, but would like to try the flex pipe first.

So if I don't replace the iron pipe, I am looking for about an 8' section of flex pipe. Knowing now that I need flare ends, is there an adapter for the flex pipe or do I need to find something custom made? Is there a generic flex pipe that has male/female ends that I would then use an adaptor flare fitting? The pipe I took off was 1/4" OD copper. What flex pipe I have found online are in the 3/8" or larger, does this change pressure delivery to the oven and could it possibly could a flow issue?

Thanks!

**JRTJH** · 05-07-2015, 07:25 PM

If it were me, I would not install a flex line under the trailer if it will be exposed. There's a reason manufacturers use the more sturdy half inch black iron pipe. It really takes a lot to damage a steel pipe, much more damage than any flex hose or copper tubing will take. So, I'd unscrew the existing iron pipe/flare fitting and remove the iron pipe. Replace it with an appropriate length of black iron pipe to run across the entire trailer from the current "T" to where the copper tubing enters the trailer. Buy a "black iron/copper flare" fitting (consider if an elbow fitting would better route the copper tubing) and reinstall the existing copper tubing at that point on the "near side" of the trailer. That way, you have only black iron pipe under the trailer (except at the terminal end where it enters the coroplast. There would be much less potential for damage with that configuration. HD or Lowe's will custom cut and thread iron pipe for about $1 per threaded end. You just have to pay for the length of pipe needed to cut your custom length. If you need 7 ft, then you'd have to buy the 10' length and they will thread the extra 3' if you want......

If you do decide to go with a flex line, any propane service center can custom build you a flex line in any length and with any terminal fittings you want. However, keep in mind that most propane centers will suggest you replace rubber flex lines every 5 or 6 years as ozone will destroy the coating. I wouldn't even consider using any "corrugated metal" flex line under the trailer. They are just too fragile and the first rock or limb that wraps around it will cause you to start leaking propane again.

ADDED: On rereading your post, you said that your copper tubing is 1/4" OD.... All of the copper tubing on my Cougar is 3/8" (it was 3/8" on my Springdale also). You might want to double check to be sure, 1/4" usually isn't used for any lengthy run, especially on that supplies a "high BTU appliance" like the stove/oven.

**chuckster57** · 05-07-2015, 07:42 PM

I'm not trying to argue, but I have seen a LOT of trailers that P clamp flex line down the entire length of the curb side frame to manifolds and then flex lines up through the coroplast to whatever appliance. I would run pipe as a first choice, but with split loom covering a flex line I don't see the issue.

**JRTJH** · 05-07-2015, 07:53 PM

I think there might be some confusion on what type of "flex hose" we're all talking about. There is a "flex hose" like the rubber coated hoses we use for our quick connect propane grills, a corrugated flex hose, commonly "THIN WALL ALUMINUM" used for water heaters and furnaces in "S&B" homes and a reinforced wire braid flex hose. Here are pictures of the last two:

I would not recommend using the "quick connect" type rubber hose, nor the corrugated aluminum "flex hose". I think Chuckster57 is talking about the wire braided flex hose" ??? If that is what he's suggesting, then I agree, that would probably be sturdy enough to substitute for iron pipe, if it can be properly secured to keep it from "hanging down" where it might be damaged....

Is that type what you were thinking of, Chuckster???

Also, Chuck, is there an RVIA code requiring that propane fittings/connections be located outside the coroplast? I've never seen fittings between the coroplast/subfloor, but I'm not sure if that's a requirement or just an "easy way to install" propane plumbing at the factory.

**chuckster57** · 05-08-2015, 03:45 AM

The stuff I see is black rubber, like you would use on your BBQ but larger diameter and threaded ends. I am not aware of any RVIA regulations on placement of connections. The manifolds are attached to the frame rail and the flex hose is routed through the coroplast and then expanding foam used to seal the hole.

I am wondering if the use of flex line is a cost and or convenience thing. Take Grand Designs for example, not an entry level unit by any means. They use iron pipe for part of the run. Then if the appliance(s) are in a slide, they terminate the iron pipe with a quick disconnect.

On the lower end Cruiser (Fun finder, Shadow cruiser) is where I see flex line all the way from the regulator to manifolds on the frame. No quick connections except for maybe one for an outside kitchen or BBQ.

Keywestparrothead · 05-08-2015, 04:13 AM

Thanks guys! I am definitely looking for the heavy duty metal flex pipe (not the rubber extension tubing), I like doing things one time and the best way possible

I am reaching out to the Gas/Propane stores here locally today. Will update later.

Keywestparrothead · 05-12-2015, 11:53 AM

Ok, so I went ahead and replaced everything back with new copper and flare fittings. No leaks and everything works like a charm now. However, I am still having the issue with flow from the passenger side LP tank, even with the new HP regulator. I have flow, but not enought to run more than one appliance at at a time, ex: burner on stove top AND fridge OR furnance. If i shut down the passenger tank and run just off the driver tank, it flows better and provides plenty of gas to run stove, furnace, HW heater and fridge all at once

I had the auto-regulator replaced last year and have swapped tanks from side to side, so I know the tanks are good (and full), so any ideas what it could be?

I need a drink...

Bob Landry · 05-12-2015, 03:43 PM

Flex is not permitted in the marine industry because of the effects of constant movement and I would apply that same reasoning to a RV. Covering it with loom will have no preventative qualities. Compression fittings are also a no-no for flammable gas.
I would cut out the back section of tubing and sweat a new piece in place using coupler fittings. It heats and solders easily and you can blow the lines out with air and it's perfectly safe, I did the entire propane system on a class B that I built with an oxy/acetylene rig and silver solder and never had an issue.

**JRTJH** · 05-12-2015, 04:37 PM

Bob,

Flex lines are used regularly on RV's. If you look under any kitchen slide you'll see a flex line attached to the black iron pipe under the RV and routed along with the flexible electrical conncetions. Both of them are either kept tight by a spring or by a plastic flexible device that folds when the slide is pulled in.

I also would be reluctant to use rubber flex tubing under an RV (black iron is much more damage resistant) where the rubber could be damaged easily by most anything that might bounce off the road and up into the bottom of the RV.

As Chuckster said, many RV's use flex line under their RV's as a routine part of the build. That wouldn't be my choice, but........

You may also like: