Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone RV Customer Comments > Keystone RV Service & Warranty Issues
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-16-2016, 03:36 PM   #21
nellie1289
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
Define a "lightweight trailer"
__________________
2014 Ram 3500 Cummins, Limited, Longbed, CC. Every option but the Aisin. Airbags.
The Toy Trifecta:
2021 Keystone Montana 3854BR all options +Onan
2021 Malibu 23 LSV
2017 Yamaha YXZ1000R SS SE
2019 Can AM Maverick X3 Turbo XRS
nellie1289 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2016, 04:07 PM   #22
SADLY
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 82
An Avalanche with a 10" or 12" (depending upon model) I beam frame is no lightweight... And we all know (or should recognize) that a loaded bike rack installed in a hitch has zero chance of causing a crack in filon/fiberglass that many feet away (or heck, even RIGHT THERE).

Keystone had an easy-out and tried to take it... But apparently the negative publicity caused by the magazine caused them to re-think their position. Lame on their first decision and then back peddling.
SADLY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2016, 04:12 PM   #23
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,654
nellie1289,

I think that if you go to Keystone.com and click on any trailer brand they build, you'll find the term "ultralight" or "lightweight" or "light" used in the "introduction paragraph." You'll notice that in a number of Keystone brands, those words are missing. I suppose you could say "that defines the term." Or possibly it wouldn't when compared to an "identical length trailer which weighs substantially more or less" from another brand which is marketed differently.

I don't think anyone has come up with a specific definition of "exactly what constitutes" the term as it applies to travel trailers.

Some manufacturers will use the term "lightweight" to describe a 24' 3500 pound trailer while another manufacturer will call it an "ultra-light".

Pretty much, those of us who have been around "forever" in RVing well remember the days when 20' travel trailers weighed 3500 pounds and 34' trailers all "topped 7000 pounds" with many weighing in north of 10K.

So, depending on advertising, marketing, competition and many other things, a "lightweight trailer" could be almost anything on the lot if the manufacturer decided to market it as such.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2016, 04:36 PM   #24
Javi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,454
Think of it like this... two empty boxes of equal dimensions, both built of steel, aluminum, foam, and wood... one weighs 8500 pounds with a payload of 1200 pounds and the other weighs 10,500 pounds with a payload of 2500 pounds...

which one you figure is built with stronger materials...
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
Javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2016, 07:55 PM   #25
theeyres
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 782
This has been a great and informative discussion. What I take from it is that no matter what you or I think of any given RV, if we buy a new one we better take seriously what the warranty says. We may think the warranty stipulations are garbage but they are spelled out and Keystone or any other manufacturer is going to stick to it. An exception may occur when Trailer Life gets involved but we better realize that won't apply to us. Buyer be aware.
__________________
Earl

2007 33.5' Arctic Fox Fifth Wheel used for full-timing for several years--now sold
2011 Hideout 23RKSWE that we now use for poking around local parks
2007 Chevy 3/4 ton diesel with Prodigy Brake Control
theeyres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 05:15 AM   #26
SAABDOCTOR
Senior Member
 
SAABDOCTOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: WESTERN,CT
Posts: 2,095
Good thread! He only carried one bike! A Harley Elctro glide!
__________________
BARNEY AND CHRISTINE
2010 MONTANA 3750FL
2005 DODGE 3500 DUALLY TD
2 RESCUE PUPS: SUSITNA AND CRYSTAL. RIP ALYESKA!
SAABDOCTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 05:18 AM   #27
dcg9381
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by theeyres View Post
RV, if we buy a new one we better take seriously what the warranty says. We may think the warranty stipulations are garbage but they are spelled out and Keystone or any other manufacturer is going to stick to it.
This is just my opinion - I see too many reports of Keystone exercising these clauses in cases where consumer fault is in-determinant at best or the resulting repair has a "cosmetic" problem.. (I'm paying more and more attention to manufacturer response to consumer problems)

Those clauses are not necessarily "in stone" due to consumer protections such as implied warranty (some states) and Magnuson-Moss (national) protections.. Otherwise some manufacturers (not Keystone) would just write warranties that are full of more holes than Swiss cheese.

That's not to say that we (consumers) shouldn't be held accountable for using a product in a manner for which it was not intended and expect full warranty, but escape clauses shouldn't be the rule either. I don't condone or excuse either.

A great example of this is a set of roof repairs (can be seen here) where Keystone's dealer repairs the roof, makes it leak free, but the result is a cosmetic mess that definitely is going to affect resale. One might point out that these are dealer repairs, not factory.. That'd be a valid point, but dealers would probably take the time to replace the OSB (per roof material guides) if they were paid to do so. This type of repair may be OK per what the warranty says as it's functional but when challenged, the cosmetic part of the warranty exclusion doesn't seem to be holding up. Consumes shouldn't suffer loss of value over a warranty repair.
dcg9381 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 09:38 AM   #28
Ken / Claudia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
Lets use this example, mounted a bike rack on the bumper and the warranty says doing so will void the warranty from the view of Keystone. Than the RV comes in and the damage is done. Before it got to the dealer, how many people did the owner ask and talk to about the failure? now days maybe many. And some would say, better tell them you where only carrying a bike, not pulling that trailer like you where, they will never fix your RV. They tell the dealer what ever shows the least possible responsibility. Like that story that started this. Would you think a couple or family only carried 1 bike on the rack. Maybe but, maybe not. Who can prove it or not prove it. So, Keystone says look it says do not do it and you did, who should than pay. Just saying.
In this case they did fix it but, as others said I do not think any of us should expect they will pay when the owner does something that is spelled out do not do.
__________________
2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
Ken / Claudia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2016, 07:13 PM   #29
popsshop
Junior Member
 
popsshop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Duluth, GA
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Have you by any chance considered that a travel trailer is like a "teeter totter" in that the wheels are the fulcrum and what's bouncing on the back does affect the parts on the opposite end? Connect the "front" to a tow vehicle so it can't bounce when the back does and you set up a "perfect storm" for damage caused by flexing rather than "teetering"....

It's really too bad that so many "want to blame the manufacturer" rather than "understand the limitations"....

Don't blame Keystone for the damage "in front of the axles caused by overloading behind the axles"......
John, I like your explanation that a tow-behind is like a teeter totter. Great way of thinking about it.

What I am finding out after 10s of thousands of miles in RVs, I am finding that our infrastructure (roads) are causing a lot more damage to my rigs (and its contents) than me "overloading", "not storing properly", or other such things. What ever happened to the trillion dollars for shovel ready projects in our infrastructure. NO, I don't blame Keystone.

Thanks for reading my ramblings.
popsshop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2016, 07:24 PM   #30
dcg9381
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
There are states (like Michigan) that are pretty underwater on their road budget. It doesn't help that cars keep getting more efficient - which means fewer $$ per mile paid in taxes. And it's political suicide to suggest that fuel taxes be raised.

RVs are odd things. I measure less than 2" of suspension travel available upwards. No shocks. Wheels/tires were not even balanced. That doesn't help with the road problem. Some of the high end manufacturers have shocks - which I may look at adding...

My guess is that it's pretty rough back there..
dcg9381 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2016, 07:39 PM   #31
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,654
Way back when (in the 70's) my wife and I were towing our Airstream (it had shocks) cross country from California to Louisiana. We were in the military at the time and had a "get there now" attitude, so we were swapping off towing duties. While I towed, my DW slept and when she towed I slept. I decided I'd be more comfortable sleeping in the bed in the Airstream than in the passenger's seat of a "single cab pickup".... WORST MISTAKE I EVER MADE !!!

If you ever get an opportunity, watch Lucille Ball/Desi Arnaz in "Long, Long Trailer"... It's a comedy, but the scene where she's in the trailer while Dezi tows, as funny as it might seem, is a pretty good depiction of just what the bed in the back of a trailer does when the rig is passed by 18 wheelers. Even "stumbling to the front" and trying to sleep on the sofa against the front wall was an impossibility. I was never so glad to get stopped and out of that trailer!!! Since then, I've understood why things "bounce around back there" !!!
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2016, 09:53 AM   #32
Ken / Claudia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
Talk about gas tax's and road repair. Is your state like Oregon. #1 better gas mileage vehicles seems to be bringing in less money. #2 only 40% of that money gets onto the road. The rest to plant trees and make areas look green, make stuff for non motor vehicles such as bike paths and walking paths near highways. We spent 58 million just to research building a new bridge. To replace a 4 lane old, over used bridge with a new 4 lane over used bridge. Alot came down to the added light rail and bike paths and the low height over a shipping river since the light rail and bike path must not have taller angles that cars can go over but, not wheel chairs. In the end the USDOT pulled out funding due to crazy needs the locals said it needed. Because in the end traffic/ truck and cars would not gain any relief.
__________________
2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
Ken / Claudia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2016, 11:44 AM   #33
nellie1289
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
amen brother, got to love Portland Oregon.
__________________
2014 Ram 3500 Cummins, Limited, Longbed, CC. Every option but the Aisin. Airbags.
The Toy Trifecta:
2021 Keystone Montana 3854BR all options +Onan
2021 Malibu 23 LSV
2017 Yamaha YXZ1000R SS SE
2019 Can AM Maverick X3 Turbo XRS
nellie1289 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2023, 09:06 AM   #34
Keeganzpapa
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Spotsylvania
Posts: 3
We were following our daughter’s rv and noticed considerable bouncing of her bikes. We stopped her and found all the bumper welds broken. The bumper was sagging downward 45 degrees to the road bikes included. Very fortunate.
Keeganzpapa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2023, 10:29 AM   #35
dutchmensport
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,623
Here are 2 videos that, probably, few have paid attention to, but they've been around for a while. These deal with "double towing", but it's still "hitch" related and explains what's happening with the extra weight on the end of the trailer. Double towing is another issue, for sure, but put that aside and just consider the weight on the hitch.



__________________
2019 Montana High Country 375FL
2014 Chevy Duramax HD 6.6 - 3500 Diesel Dully Long bed Crew Cab
dutchmensport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2023, 02:34 PM   #36
LHaven
Senior Member
 
LHaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Festus2 View Post
So where does this leave those of us who have the infamous pull-out "bike rack" and appeared - not so long ago - on many Cougars and other models? Since this rack was not an after-market product but installed at the factory, I am assuming that it would be "legal" provided the weight was kept at or under 200 pounds and that it was within the warranty period.
I'm still bumfuzzled that the factory put a rear receiver hitch on my trailer (not something I asked for, and can't see myself ever using anyway), then added a factory spare tire mount... on the bumper!
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
LHaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2023, 10:48 AM   #37
Martian
Member
 
Martian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: Independent Republic of Horry
Posts: 98
Make that hitch useful and get a receiver mount spare tire holder. Problem solved on a 2016 thread.
__________________

2018 Ram 1500 crew cab, 2020 Cougar 22RBS
Just the two of us on the roam with our two Jacks.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. A.E.
Martian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2023, 11:29 AM   #38
Jake's Keystone
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Clifford
Posts: 44
This thread interested me. I read it from the start as our 316RLS came with a factory hitch at the back rated to pull 3000# and a tongue weight of 300# (i think) per the sticker. So I purchased a bike rack and mounted 2 bikes. (I'm under the 300#). One thing I learnt was you need an RV bike rack, not one built for cars/trucks because of the teeter totter effect.
__________________
Pat...

2022 GMC Sierra HD AT4
2022 Cougar 3169RLS
New and Traded
Jake's Keystone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2023, 11:46 AM   #39
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake's Keystone View Post
This thread interested me. I read it from the start as our 316RLS came with a factory hitch at the back rated to pull 3000# and a tongue weight of 300# (i think) per the sticker. So I purchased a bike rack and mounted 2 bikes. (I'm under the 300#). One thing I learnt was you need an RV bike rack, not one built for cars/trucks because of the teeter totter effect.
AND: Most bike racks, when used on the back of an RV, have the additional requirement to stabilize the load to keep it from rocking side to side as well as to keep it from bouncing up and down.... Bike racks that aren't "RV Approved" won't have that additional requirement in the instructions/owner's manual, but those that are will either have it as one of the "first page cautions" or buried somewhere in the pages most people "skip over"....

Here's what it says on the Curt trailer receiver about securing the load:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CURTHITCH WARNING.JPG
Views:	44
Size:	118.0 KB
ID:	45856  
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.