Just got back from a 13 day elk hunt, didn't bring one home but had the opportunity. Early in the mornings I liked to catch some news and weather using a 12volt plug in inverter but it's kind of a hassle unplugging cords from shoreline outlet then plugging back into the inverter plus having to listen to the constant hum and vibration of the inverter partially sitting on one of the shelves in the entertainment center. I would like to install a permanent 800 watt inverter down by the batteries just to power the entertainment center (TV and satelite reciever) outlet. What would be the easiest route? Thanks in advance, JK
PS, be sure to loosen landing gear stabilizer bolts before raising or lowering rv. Just thought I'd pass that on, no particular reason......
I just got a 2008 Energy 230fs toy hauler that I will be doing this too as well. So any ideas particular to the keystones would be greatly appreciated.
I had a weekend warrior I put an inverter into. I located the inverter in the electrical cabinet which was accessed from outside the camper. Took the DC power that was piped into the power box to power it. Then I located the circuit breaker for the 2 AC receptacles I wanted to power with it...then I just hard wired it to that circuit. This isn't an ideal install because it prohibits these outlets from ever delivering a full load...only the inverter load capacity. So it was good for a TV/DVD player and cell phone/computer chargers but that's about it. Also as the inverter was on most of the time there was a constant draw on the batteries...it would be nice to have it in a more convenient place so it could be switched on and off more easily.
Now my keystone power box is above the refer so I'm not sure how all this is going to work.
You can accomplish an automatic switchover by using a double pole double throw (DPDT) relay with a 120 volt coil and contacts rated for the AC circuit breaker.
The load is connected to the common contacts, the inverter to the Normally closed contacts and the AC line from the breaker to the Normally open contacts. The coil is connected to the incoming AC line.
In operation: When the trailer is connected to shore power the relay energizes and allows power to flow normally from the circuit breaker panel to the load.
When on battery, the relay is in the unenergized position allowing power from the inverter to flow to the load.
This type of set up avoids the possibility of mis connection of the inverter across the energized line and functions automatically.
Suitable relays with 20 amp contacts are available from companies such as Potter & Brumfield and are distributed through major electronic suppliers such as Newark electronics. The relay can be mounted in a small metal circuit box.
This option sounds good. I'm not an electrician by any stretch of the imagination so I've got a question for you John. If the relay opens on the normal AC side and closes on the inverter side does that eliminate all back feed of inverter 110 vac to the breaker box and other outlets? I'm thinking the answer should be obviously yes if the relay is open going back that direction. How about a sketch? I work with some pretty good oil field electritions so they could probably help me out.
Thanks
JK
Looks like the same relay we keep at work. Our electrician/automation tech fixed me up. It's a 120v and I believe 10amp with a base. He's still got to explain it to me a little better. I pulled the cover off of the outlet to check out the wiring this afternoon. It has two sets of wires going into it. I guess one set supplying voltage to the outlet and the other going on to another outlet??? Could I splice into either one of these and if I did i guess that would also be supplying inverter power to the other outlets?? Looking at my breaker box i'm showing breakers for the AC, Water Heater, Micro Wave,Ground Fault and one labeled GEN. Don't know if that stands for general or what. I'd have to plug into to 110 to find out for sure. I wouldn't mind energizing a couple of other outlets any way. Any thoughts on the circuits? The entertainment center is up by the bath and bed and the outlet at the bath sink is not a visible GFI (doesn't have the trip test built into it). Thanks again for your time and effort.
Jimmy
I would guess that the breaker marked "gen" is for a generator, depending on how it fits into the panel.
Just be careful that you don't hook up too many outlets to the inverter and run a chance of overloading it.
John
Very tricky relay setup, John. Thank you for this idea.
Question, is there any parasitic draw on the inverter if it is energizing all of the outlets? ...lets say there is nothing plugged into or drawing ac power...will the inverter still be using DC energy just sitting there standing by?
Started installation of the inverter for the entertainment center. First checked the breakers to figure out what all was on each circuit. I found the micro wave on one as marked, the water heater, the one marked GFI, never did find anything not powered when I open that circuit. The one marked "Gen" I think is the converter/charger. The only way i could kill the power to the EC was to open the "main" which killed power to all outlets. Looks like all the outlets are on the same circuit. Decided then to just install an outlet and inverter remote switch beside the 12 volt power supply in the same cubby hole as the original outlet and coax hookup. I really didn't want to try powering all the outlets with only a 600 watt inverter. Was able to run the wires to a empty space behind the EC which opened up to the basement storage. Thats all I completed today. The new outlet and remote switch look real nice. I was pretty pleased with how it's turned out so far. I'll try to take a couple of pictures and post them later. So far so good.
JK
So I've decided how to install my inverter system. I'd like to share it with you to see if I've missed anything.
1500/3000 watt Samlex installed with #2 AWG cable, 200 ADC fuse, less than 5 feet cable length to battery. I was going to wire in the DPDT relay but have decided to go with plugging and unplugging it to shore power...here's why:
If the inverter is plugged into the shore power cable there is no way any shore power could be back flowed into it. If the Gen is started the circuitry in the J box switches the coach power onto the Gen power so once again isolating it. (It will still be sitting there humming along but power not going anywhere.
The only issue I have is the charger converter. When the gen is off and the inverter is plugged into the shore power cable the charger will be wanting to charge the batts...not good. So I'll install a switch on the converter charger to turn it off. Now this is a bit inconvenient to have to remember to turn the converter charger back on everytime the gen is started...so I'll install a relay to sense when the gen power is available and bypass the switch on the converter.
That sound ok? Keep in mind this for dry camping so the way I see this working is the converter charger switch gets turned off as soon as I leave the house (no more shore power). Then every time I start the gen to use the microwave the conveter charger will come on to do its thing. ...Get home plug the shore power into my house and flip the converter charger back on to normal.
Doing the job as you describe will certainly work but it does involve a lot of operational steps.
Using the relay method is more or less automatic, but if you wish to power a lot of outlets rather than 1 or 2 you will need a big relay to avoid overloading it.
Another approach would be to use a simple transfer breaker panel used with small home power standby set ups. These are available at places like Home Depot and would allow you to switch specific circuits to the inverter.
The down side to this method is the necessity of extensive rewiring of the AC circuits and where to put the transfer panel, but it could be done. To what advantage I am not sure.
Unless you plan on getting a very large inverter to power the entire trailer I personally feel that having a few dedicated outlets to switch over is the best way to go and the relay method makes it automatic, but one can get as complex as you like.
well really the only operational step is to remember to turn off the converter charger when I leave home...everything else will be automatic while dry camping.
and remembering to turn the charger back on when I get home is not super critical since i use a Schumaker High capacity charger to top up the batteries and float them till the next trip.
the reason I think I will do it this way is so I don't have to pull any more wire or install anymore switches or outlets. the only thing that will be on all the time is the microwave clock...I don't know for sure but think that would be a pretty small draw compared to the TV/DVD and cell phone/computer chargers all over the place.
Ok so i decided to put the micro, ac, and converter on a 3 pole on off switch. And in front of the 3 pole switch installed a 3 pole normally open contactor for the same equipment. When the generator comes on the the contactor closes and the off switch is bypassed so the micro, ac, and converter come on automatically whenever the gen is running.
Seems like a lot of stuff to install but i couldnt come up with anything less.
I realize that this is an old thread, but just wanted to let folks know that I just finished installing the DPDT relay that JohnnyFry suggested earlier in the thread.
With shipping, the parts were $28 plus about $15 more for jct box, wire nuts, etc.
With the shore power off, simply turn on the inverter and the entertainment center plugs are powered.
Shut off the inverter, plug in the shore power and everything works as normal
No cross feed, no problems, even if I inadvertently leave the inverter on
Just wanted to thank the forum and especially John for all the expertise
This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.
Linear Mode
