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Old 06-05-2021, 05:30 AM   #21
aricker243
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after being on the road as a snowbird for 4 months, I can tell you 100% of all F250 diesel drivers are over payload, and 95% of ALL other 3/4 diesel tow vehicles are overweight or right at capacity.

most likely you are close, and you'll find the 23-25% pin weight is way too high.... mine is 18%....(all depends our your RV) and you probably won't come close to max weight of the trailer. I had 900bs in cargo for a 4 month trip.
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Old 06-05-2021, 05:42 AM   #22
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It's ok Michael. Just to clarify I am a forum 2500 degenerate with only a 12,000 GVWR 5th wheel, that will get a dooley next time for sure.
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Old 06-05-2021, 05:59 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Michael In Oregon View Post
So being new to this all, it's funny. The dealership said no problem, after showing them the specs on the trailer. Keystone advertises that all there Montana's are tow-able with 3/4 ton's.

Dealers are so funny.
Your co-worker did send you to the right place though.

It'll all work out.
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Old 06-05-2021, 06:04 AM   #24
flybouy
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Originally Posted by aricker243 View Post
after being on the road as a snowbird for 4 months, I can tell you 100% of all F250 diesel drivers are over payload, and 95% of ALL other 3/4 diesel tow vehicles are overweight or right at capacity.

most likely you are close, and you'll find the 23-25% pin weight is way too high.... mine is 18%....(all depends our your RV) and you probably won't come close to max weight of the trailer. I had 900bs in cargo for a 4 month trip.
This is just not true, Did you see and weigh EVERY F250 and EVERY 3/4 ton truck towing a camper in the country during your journey? The 20 to 25% pin weight ESTIMATE is just that, an estimate. Those numbers are used as a "guide" when actual scaled numbers are not available. That guide is used widely by most everyone in the rv community and is a "maximum number" or a "worst case" scenario. By using that to calculate then obviously the rig should not overload the tv if the trailer is loaded below gtwr. The common reporting by those that weigh their rigs and report back is that their trailers are loaded much closer to max rated capacity that they are to the "advertised empty weights".

Stating that the estimate is "way too high" because you're at 18% is just bad advice. That's like saying everyone should buy a red truck as mine is red. That estimate may be too high for you but making a blanket statement that it's too high for eveyone is just wrong. I have a gray F250 and I KNOW I'm not overweight (OK, I am but the truck isn't ) so there goes that 100%, BTW, I donít see any info on what you are towing or what you are towing with. When it comes to fith wheel toy hualers the pin weight percentages can vary depending on how many axles and the load if any in the garage.
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Old 06-05-2021, 08:53 AM   #25
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The only place anyone will find the max tow rating for any truck will be from the manufacturers advertising typically an attempt to one up the competition. That number is not listed on any of the tags posted on the trucks with the other max weight limits & does nothing but muddy up the waters for newbies & their RVs.
I know some of the newer trucks have "gooseneck & conventional trailers" weights listed on the door tags, but what they do not list is 5th wheels & travel trailers which are different from those listed. Goosenecks & conventional trailers the loads can be adjusted over the axles which lightens the pin/tongue weights therefore allowing heavier loads to be towed, which is exactly how truck manufacturers come up with that max tow rating they "advertise". It's not the same in the rv world where there is little to nothing you're able to do to adjust the load over the axles, it is what it is. Typically the truck will exceed the "posted" payload before it will ever be able to carry the load of the "advertised" max trailer weight where rvs are concerned.
RV dealers have now taken that "advertised" max truck tow weight & the dry weight posted on every rv, another useless number & used both to their advantage to sell folks a rv that most don't have enough truck for.
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Old 06-05-2021, 09:29 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Michael In Oregon View Post
Well I enjoyed some humble pie last night after eating crow for dinner! I guess an apology is in order first. I stand corrected kfxgreenie and am sorry for my actions sir.



I was told that the only number that came into play was the 18500lb's tow-ability. Then reading that all Montana's are tow-able by 3/4 tons sealed the deal for me. This could have been a VERY expensive mistake. I'll take the advice and on our next trip I'll run the rig through a weigh station. Thanks guy's!!!
Good news is with truck prices the way they are you will likely get full value for your 2500 if you need to trade it back... bad news is finding a 1 ton might be tricky, and you will also be paying full market price back for it.
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Old 06-05-2021, 12:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Michael In Oregon View Post
So being new to this all, it's funny. The dealership said no problem, after showing them the specs on the trailer. Keystone advertises that all there Montana's are tow-able with 3/4 ton's.
Welcome to the forum and donít feel bad.. my dealer installed my fifth wheel hitch and hooked up my trailer and sent me down the road. I had about 1000 lbs less payload for a little smaller fifth wheel. I was way overloaded until I got my new truck...I didnít have a clue ..and nobody told me until I joined the forum
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Old 06-05-2021, 03:25 PM   #28
Michael In Oregon
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Good news is with truck prices the way they are you will likely get full value for your 2500 if you need to trade it back... bad news is finding a 1 ton might be tricky, and you will also be paying full market price back for it.

I had my truck built, then ordered. Funny thing is, I originally built a 3500. I slept on it and did my due diligence and the last thing I read was from Keystone and that all Montana's are 3/4 T towable. I did not what to gamble and lose comfort for everyday driving (suspension) and have the wife uncomfortable!
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Old 06-05-2021, 03:44 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Michael In Oregon View Post
I had my truck built, then ordered. Funny thing is, I originally built a 3500. I slept on it and did my due diligence and the last thing I read was from Keystone and that all Montana's are 3/4 T towable. I did not what to gamble and lose comfort for everyday driving (suspension) and have the wife uncomfortable!
Perhaps the narrative you propose that one tone trucks are more uncomfortable relative to 3/4 ton is a fiction. It has more to do with the level of trim; more insulation, more electronic gizmos and fancier seats on the most upscale models compared to base models. I have an F350 XL; rubber floor mats, vinyl seats, less insulation and no power windows, mirrors, doors, etc. My choice and my truck rides like a truck. If you get a "platinum or king ranch" I suspect a higher level of creature comfort compared to my base model; don't think it will make little, if any difference 3/4 or 1 ton.
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Old 06-05-2021, 04:08 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Michael In Oregon View Post
I had my truck built, then ordered. Funny thing is, I originally built a 3500. I slept on it and did my due diligence and the last thing I read was from Keystone and that all Montana's are 3/4 T towable. I did not what to gamble and lose comfort for everyday driving (suspension) and have the wife uncomfortable!


Michael I don't know about GM products but the difference in ride between a 3/4 Ram and 1 ton is literally negligible - no discernable difference. The situation with your 3/4 is regrettable, there is so much misleading information related to towing RVs.

In the end the MHC will be too much for you if you carry much of anything either inside the trailer or inside the truck. The payload on your 3/4 is almost the same as it was on mine - I would not buy anything like your trailer, or mine, and have that truck; I bought the 1 ton. My trailer specs are very close to yours and although I doubt you will ever max the carrying capacity of the trailer, you will put in much more than your truck should carry if you load to enjoy a trip. Good luck in your choices.
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Old 06-05-2021, 04:09 PM   #31
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My RAN 2500 and 3500 ride the same. There is really no difference.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:10 AM   #32
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Smile Great place to be

Michael, I just sold my Ram 2500 Laramie because I took the word of the dealer three years ago. I haven't used the 5th wheel since I bought it because my grandson got cancer and that was much more important. However, although the TV was pretty and had everything I wanted, it wasn't enough. So I asked my wife about getting a 3500 or 350 depending on brand (not married to any brand of truck, if it has what I want, I like it). I also asked her if she wanted to come along on the trips, to which she said yes. Anyway, long story short, I really like her for the last 42 years. Got $6,000.00 more than what I paid for it and will wait and order my 3500 or 350 next year. Life is good and will be enjoying a great life with my wife.
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:02 AM   #33
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At least the newbie is listening and taking heed. I have friends who refuse to. To many different excuses I won’t even get into. Safe travels all.
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:58 PM   #34
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Welcome, just do your research on your payload ratings their all very different based on options... my advice don't share too much info on weight! Ask questions how to weights and you'll know if your in the clear. This is a great forum with alot of knowledge but some members are very passionate and I don't blame them, were on the road too but I think you'll know what to do if need be! I think the guys that ignore weights and refuse to believe the stickers ratings are the ones that deserve the lectures! I took the first guys post as a warning to you and not so much a lecture! Enjoy your new setup!
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:06 PM   #35
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We also have a 294RL. On the CAT scales, pin weight is 2980 lbs-so itís slightly over 21%. As mentioned, the 20-25% estimated pin weight puts you in the ballpark.There are a lot of variables with how people load.

We traded our 3/4 ton Duramax for the one ton (SRW). The 3/4 ton would pull it all day longóbut payload was 2450 lbs I was not comfortable being overweight-no matter how many people thinks itís no big deal.

Some claim the only difference between 3/4 and one ton is one leaf spring.. If true, thank god for that one leaf spring-since it raised my payload by 1400 lbs.

Good luck.

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Old 06-10-2021, 03:16 PM   #36
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Welcome ,Enjoy

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Originally Posted by Michael In Oregon View Post
We're proud new owners of a 2021 Montana High Country 294RL. A coworker highly recommended joining this forum to learn about our setup and to gain knowledge from the experienced. We're looking forward to breaking in our truck and trailer this year and we hope we can come to you for advice, questions and guidance.
We just picked up our 295RL 4/09/21 . Sister to your 294RL. Great floorplan . Lots of useful information & knowledgeable people on this sight. Enjoy.
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Old 06-10-2021, 05:02 PM   #37
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Welcome

We bought a new 2020 Montana 305RL last August.
My tv was Ram 2500 6.4 hemi. Lots of power but after joining forum and looking at my specs I realized my truck was over loaded if I carried my spouse and pets and a little firewood. I bit the bullet and traded for a 3500 diesel SRW crew cab in Feb. I really like the HO diesel engine , just got back from the smokies and truck did great. Mileage was a little over 11 mpg. It gets 21 to 23 on highway not towing.
Only thing I found is I'm going to add a Aux gravity flow tank for fuel.
Good luck and happy camping!!
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Old 06-10-2021, 05:10 PM   #38
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Well I enjoyed some humble pie last night after eating crow for dinner! I guess an apology is in order first. I stand corrected kfxgreenie and am sorry for my actions sir.



I was told that the only number that came into play was the 18500lb's tow-ability. Then reading that all Montana's are tow-able by 3/4 tons sealed the deal for me. This could have been a VERY expensive mistake. I'll take the advice and on our next trip I'll run the rig through a weigh station. Thanks guy's!!!
I tow my Montana High Country 295RL with a 2015 6.4 Hemi Ram 2500. 12,850 tow capacity 3130 payload capacity . We don't boondock so no need to carry water or tanks full of water. Our 295RL was listed ax 3/4 ton towable & although I'm @ the top of my numbers . Hemi lets me know its back there pulling hills but zero issues towing with this truck. 14,300 gvwt not gonna happen .With 3000lbs hitch weight on truck actually towing a weight of 11,300. Not sure about the newer trucks but when i purchased our 2015 Hemi Ram i test drove all big 3 Heavy duty trucks .2500 / 250 / 3500 / 350s As a daily driver the Ram 2500 won hands down as far as comfort while driving unloaded. Same truck Hemi vs Diesel loses 800 lbs payload capacity with the diesel engine.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:32 AM   #39
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The only thing you will not find here is a cure for "Camper's Addiction".😎
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Old 06-11-2021, 06:27 AM   #40
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I had my truck built, then ordered. Funny thing is, I originally built a 3500. I slept on it and did my due diligence and the last thing I read was from Keystone and that all Montana's are 3/4 T towable. I did not what to gamble and lose comfort for everyday driving (suspension) and have the wife uncomfortable!
Believing the Keystone advertising unfortunately is not doing the due diligence. This disclaimer is on the Keystone website....

*Throughout the year, Keystone RV may modify model features, floor plans, and specifications. Website data typically reflects the most recent production run, however, any or all of these items are subject to change without notice. Please check with your dealer to for the details specific to the unit you are purchasing. You should also read all labels that are on each trailer for information concerning the safe operation of the unit and its components, actual weight(s), cargo carrying capacity, and tire information. MAKE SURE YOUR TOW VEHICLE IS COMPATIBLE WITH YOUR KEYSTONE RV. Owners of Keystone recreational vehicles are solely responsible for the selection and proper use of tow vehicles. For more information about the safe operation and use of various systems, Keystone service warranties and how to obtain service, extended use, towing, and maintenance, click here to review the Keystone Ownerís Manual. Component and appliance manuals can be found in the trailer.

The section I bolded is important. Keystone will say they are all 3/4 ton towable but WHICH 3/4 ton? It will be ONEodel, likely a 2 door, 2 wd, gasser that is a "bare bones" work truck with no options. The truck manufacturers do the same thing in their advertising with their "max towing number" which is likely the same stripped down truck PULLING a flatbed trailer with a low center of gravity load with very little tongue or pin weight. In both cases the numbers are unfortunately nowhere near real world numbers or in the case of the truck in any way relevant to hualing a camper.
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