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Old 08-09-2021, 08:22 AM   #1
Blueswede
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Payload dilemma

So I have been looking at upgrading my F350 SRW to a dually. But I really don't need another debt. My current Ford runs really well and tows the Cougar without any issues. My biggest concern is the payload it has. The door sticker says that its 3074 lbs. With a pin weight of 2400 lbs, the 5th wheel hitch, the external fuel tank with an additional 40 gallons of diesel, the 3 dogs and us, I'm at about 3650. We go out about once every 6 weeks, mostly to local places. I know that a lot of RVrs tow over the payload of their trucks. Not that that makes it a safe way to go. But what are the real issues that I may not be aware of?
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:31 AM   #2
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Sounds like you are have no problems at all, so why change anything? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think your F-350 is doing just fine based on your comments.
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:53 AM   #3
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I agree, with the exception of the payload. I’m just not sure if that would create issues down the road. The numbers are what they are….
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Old 08-09-2021, 09:07 AM   #4
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So I have been looking at upgrading my F350 SRW to a dually. But I really don't need another debt. My current Ford runs really well and tows the Cougar without any issues. My biggest concern is the payload it has. The door sticker says that its 3074 lbs. With a pin weight of 2400 lbs, the 5th wheel hitch, the external fuel tank with an additional 40 gallons of diesel, the 3 dogs and us, I'm at about 3650. We go out about once every 6 weeks, mostly to local places. I know that a lot of RVrs tow over the payload of their trucks. Not that that makes it a safe way to go. But what are the real issues that I may not be aware of?
Where did you get the pin weight? Is that from a CAT Scale or best guess..

By my educated guess and reading the spec sheet from that trailer, I'm seeing north of 3K for a pin weight..
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Old 08-09-2021, 09:11 AM   #5
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The "real issues"? Well first you just publically acknowledged that you knowingly and regularly tow about 600 lbs overloaded. First, are these actual weights or are they "guestimates"? Typically people tend to guess on the light side and are suprised my the actual numbers when they drive across a scale.

The maximum numbers are set by the manufacturer. They know the engineering limits of the components. Will 600 lbs over cause the truck to collapse? Doubtful but here's the thing, NO ONE KNOWS HOW MANY STRAWS IT TAKES TO BREAK THE CAMEL'S BACK." Personally I don’t want to find out. You will get what I consider irresponsible comments like "don't worry it's no problem". But there is another coneideration that tjose naysayers will also popo away and that's liability.

In this litigious society God forbid you get into a personal injury or loss of limb or life accident. The attorney's will research and download your truck's "black box". They will also research and discover this thread. The likelihood of this information surfacing and having a negative impact on you and your financial future is high from my experience.

Now I'm certianly no attorney but during my career as a Director of Construction and Facilities and as a Project Manager in Deleopment in retail and restaurant industry I've spent a fair amount of time being deposed and questioned by them on the witness stand. The "opposing side" will use any little opening to make the defense look culpable and publishing that you "knowingly tow overloaded" is like throwing the door open and addmitting guilt in public. It really won't matter if the accident wasn't your fualt as the jury likely won't see it that way. Beleive me, jury's love to "get back" at companies and individuals that they percieve "have deep pockets". A jury with a group of hard working individuals that can't afford a nice truck, a nice camper, and can afford to travel in same wouldn't excatly bee seen as destitute.

It's your decision but I think the risk is too great. JMHO
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Old 08-09-2021, 10:09 AM   #6
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My first thought is where the weight numbers came from? 2400 pin would be about 20% of the dry weight. Just loading with minimal equipment (doubtful anyone would carry that little in a trailer that size) I don't see how the pin weight will be less than 3k. Depending on how I load my pin runs 21-23%. Guess I could get to 20% if I emptied the front pass thru but then why go anywhere?

So let's figure 3k plus the additional 1250 you said you carry (I suspect that is very conservative figuring 40gal. of diesel and the tank it requires) and we're at 4250. Your payload is 3074. Let's just say 1250 over payload. Payload is GVW minus the weight of the truck so you are now 1250 over payload AND the GVW of the truck.

It "pulls" it OK and you haven't had a problem....yet. I, you nor anyone on this forum knows what tolerances which piece parts in the suspension were built to. Will that little "abc" flex 10 times with an additional 1250lbs. on it? 5 times...100 times? Who knows. Just think about all the spring hangers on RVs that break over time (example came to my head) because they aren't built for the rigors of what folks put them through. Now think of a major suspension component failing on your truck....at 65mph.....with shoulder to shoulder traffic..... Won't be pretty and how it turns out will simply be a matter of what the maker had in store for you and yours - a decision you made by choosing to overload and drive in an unsafe manner IMO.

Do folks do it all the time? Heavens knows they do. Are they "smart", know something everyone else doesn't etc.? No. They are risk takers; gamblers; folks that have no respect for themselves or others around them - I've got one in my family.

Then, the elephant in the room, exactly what Marshall talked about. You WILL be overloaded and you will be at fault no matter the situation. Think of the guy that backs out in front of you and you whack him. He backed out while you were coming down the street and shouldn't have but YOU will be cited; same goes for towing far beyond the published/established limits of your truck. With all the ways they have now of putting an accident scene back together I have no doubt they will know you were overweight....and if it was an equipment malfunction...my future, and my wife's future mean a WHOLE lot more to me than trying to gamble or cheat.

As a final note, I looked at the 368MBI prior to buying this truck and trailer because DW liked the middle room (I do not). A primary reason for not getting it was due to its weight and the payload available on my 3/4 ton, which was 100lbs. more than yours. Get a bigger truck and take care of you, your wife and others; it's a price we all pay (or should) to play the RV game. JMO
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Old 08-09-2021, 11:07 AM   #7
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Consistently overweight has to take a toll on the suspension and rear end, how long before something gives up in the middle of a trip at highway speed?

Just sayin…
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Old 08-09-2021, 12:11 PM   #8
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Blue, I'm afraid I'm going to be 'piling on' as we've been told over the years. I think Javi is correct i his statement of your actual pin weight. I'm betting that CAT says you are in the neighborhood of 3200 pounds pin weight and more than 4200 pounds gross on your truck's rear axle.
You'd do us all a favor, and yourself included, with a trip over the CAT scales.
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Old 08-09-2021, 02:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Blueswede View Post
So I have been looking at upgrading my F350 SRW to a dually. But I really don't need another debt. My current Ford runs really well and tows the Cougar without any issues. My biggest concern is the payload it has. The door sticker says that its 3074 lbs. With a pin weight of 2400 lbs, the 5th wheel hitch, the external fuel tank with an additional 40 gallons of diesel, the 3 dogs and us, I'm at about 3650. We go out about once every 6 weeks, mostly to local places. I know that a lot of RVrs tow over the payload of their trucks. Not that that makes it a safe way to go. But what are the real issues that I may not be aware of?
Well I believe that it is time for trip to a scale be it a CAT or closed DOT scale.

Your 5er has a GVWR of 13,980#, 39’ long and only has a listed payload of 2,229# that last number is small for a 39’ 5er.
At 22% pin I see you with 3,075# on the pin, if you figure all comes to 3,650# and you think your pin is at
2,400# means the extras add 1,250# on top of the pin. So if real pin is 3,075 add 1,250# is 4,325# less 3,074 means you are more like 1,251# over your GVWR. Been there done that!
FIRST load her up and hit the scales, full fuel and normal packing. Do the normal scale procedure, once 5er attached three readings front axle, drive axle and trailer axles. Then pull to the side drop the 5er and reweigh the TV front axle, rear axle.
Now math time, (loaded front and drive axles) - (unloaded front and rear axles) equals pin weight. The pin plus the trailer axles is the 5er GVW. The total of the loaded front and rear axles is the TV GVW.

Time to start looking at DRW, as based on the weight of stuff, you would be pushing the payload of even a new 12,400# GVWR F350 SRW.

As stated been there done that, figured I would be tight on a Ram 3500 SRW, so now have a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Laramie Cummins HO and Aisin, 5,411# payload and tow capacity of 25,225#.
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Old 08-09-2021, 03:34 PM   #10
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All of the information that has been posted is exactly what I have been thinking. I know it's time to upgrade. Looking at a 2013 F350 DRW King Ranch. I'll have one before our next outing. As much as I love my current truck, the truth has been spoken, and I appreciate it.
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Old 08-09-2021, 04:45 PM   #11
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All of the information that has been posted is exactly what I have been thinking. I know it's time to upgrade. Looking at a 2013 F350 DRW King Ranch. I'll have one before our next outing. As much as I love my current truck, the truth has been spoken, and I appreciate it.

Steve I for one appreciate your open mind about weights, they are confusing at best along with the the fact that every manufacturer from trucks to RVs tries their very best to muddy the issue.

I'm a "vehicle guy" whether it be trucks, SUVs or special off road Jeeps (or back in the day hotrods) - I love them. Some of my pickups were like "family" . The RV world (once I was forced to think about weights) put a different spin on my trucks and the importance of some things "came to the top" - took a while. IMO opinion; at my age the last thing I want to do is "underestimate" anything and wind up costing me or DW...which is all I have.
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Old 08-09-2021, 05:27 PM   #12
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Thanks for the input. I also have my eye on a 2011 F-450. I like the tow capacity and the payload. We'll see......
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Old 08-09-2021, 05:39 PM   #13
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Thanks for the input. I also have my eye on a 2011 F-450. I like the tow capacity and the payload. We'll see......
Check with your insurance company first. Out here on the LEFT coast, it may require different insurance. Your weight fees will scare you
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Old 08-12-2021, 03:56 AM   #14
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So I pulled the trigger on the 450. Finishing all the paperwork today and should get it by the end of the week. Really great condition, runs great. Just need to get a new B&W hitch to adapt to the existing gooseneck. Looking forward to our next outing at the end of the month.
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Old 08-12-2021, 04:30 AM   #15
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So I pulled the trigger on the 450. Finishing all the paperwork today and should get it by the end of the week. Really great condition, runs great. Just need to get a new B&W hitch to adapt to the existing gooseneck. Looking forward to our next outing at the end of the month.

Congratulations! Many folks faced with with being over payload will go into denial and start with the airbag argument or note how many others are obviously over payload. Looking at the numbers as you did shows maturity. I also believe the F450 has a much better turning radius than the F350 SRW and I have one of those and the turning radius is terrible.
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Old 08-12-2021, 04:37 AM   #16
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Congrats, enjoy the new truck.
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Old 08-12-2021, 04:45 AM   #17
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Enjoy the new truck. Let us know how well it operates/tows!
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Old 08-12-2021, 05:02 AM   #18
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What sucks is I just switch to DRW and now I have to run truck tags because of the weight. So tags are now like $300 a year and no tax break on personal property so looking around $1200 a year in taxes in VA.

But why when I had a 22k pound class A, there is no issue?
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Old 08-12-2021, 05:16 AM   #19
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What sucks is I just switch to DRW and now I have to run truck tags because of the weight. So tags are now like $300 a year and no tax break on personal property so looking around $1200 a year in taxes in VA.

But why when I had a 22k pound class A, there is no issue?
Because the class A was under the magic 26,000
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:58 AM   #20
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Enjoy the new truck. Let us know how well it operates/tows!
I second this. As a guy with bumper pull and a 3/4 ton right at max payload, the thought of a 17,000 lb, two axle, 17,000 GVW trailer and a F450 intrigues me.
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