Fuel Panic! Colonial Pipeline Hack

[BrentB]

Pre-weekend update:

% stations without gasoline, 5pm CT, change since last update:

AL 9% NC
DC 75% +2%
DE 5% +1%
FL 30% NC
GA 49% +1%
KY 3% NC
LA 0% NC
MD 39% +3%
MS 8% +1%
NC 69% +1%
NJ 1% +1%
SC 52% NC
TN 33% NC
TX 0% NC
VA 50% -2%
WV7% +1%

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by gearhead

It ain't gonna get any safer than that.
I'm about at the point of saying...OK shut it all down. I can live on squirrell and mustard greens just fine. Bet you y'all can't.

Ignorance, ideology, dimwits that know nothing about anything; they're trying to get a foothold. We will weather it but be prepared.

One of the things folks just forget; water. When they decide to shut down power, gas etc. etc., unless you own running water OR a large waterside property, you will be in tight straights without water even if you have some foodstuffs.

Working a deal on a couple of sections; 6 windmills (4 need to be revisited to perform well - been out of production for a while)....water. Plenty of room to plant things to eat and fields to entice wildlife in.

Used to have horses but haven't needed them in a long time. I see that need on the horizon. Figure I'll get a few. Old man in the mountains wants to give up his sawmill. Figure that would be something to look at....we'll be back to buckboards. Gotta figure out how to make the wheels; don't know how to make the steel to go round the wheels on the wagons.

March 2019 sold my mountain property. 3 springs and underground "little river". I wasn't thinking forward about what might happen. "Kick self in tail".

[JRTJH]

That's exactly why we live on a private lake, have a shallow "hand pump well" and enough "standing timber" to keep us warm for the next 20 years... I might not be able to get gas to run a chain saw, but I can still use a saw, axe and splitting maul... Might only get a few swings before I'll need to rest, but I've got all day to split enough wood to make it through the night LOL

As for meat, summertime there's lots of salted meat and smoked meats, wintertime, up here, the entire back yard is a deep freeze. Just thaw it and put it in the smoker (old repurposed refrigerator) before the ice melts....

[B-O-B'03]

Originally Posted by Javi

We'll be at $4 or more per gallon by Christmas, interest rates will be in the teens and taxes will be at or above pre-2016 rates

In all probability the shortages of manufactured goods will accelerate well into 2022 and maybe beyond, before any easing is seen.. At least that's the forecasts I'm seeing from the major mills of carbon and stainless and the suppliers of molded goods and gypsum board.

Sadly, all of the predictions are good for the petrochemical industry and bad for us consumers.

I have been waiting for the best time to pull my 401K into cash and out of the market and that time if fast approaching, it seems.

We have been in Key West since Saturday the 8th and not really paid attention to things. We went to the Bahia Honda state park today and I noticed on the way back there were stations that had regular gas for $2.99. When we got back to KW, I saw at least one station that had plastic bags on every pump handle and their advertised price was $3.19.

-Brian

[gearhead]

Yes it's a perfect storm for petrochemicals. More nat gas than we know what to do with for feedstock. Heck turn it into ethylene. My son works in Chevrons new ethylene plant, I worked in Shells Houston ethylene plant, and Shell is building another one near Pittsburg. We will have plenty of plastic but no gasoline.

[jxnbbl]

Yesterday drove from VA (virginia beach) where everyone seemed to be out of gas and some starting to run out of diesel. The entire length of 13 to Rt1 (Delaware) and currently in PA. There seems to be outages for Valero but everyone else seems to have diesel for about $3.25.

[BrentB]

% stations without gasoline, 7am CT, change since last update:
AL 9% NC
DC 87% +8%
DE 4% NC
FL 30% NC
GA 49% -1%
KY 3% NC
LA 0% NC
MD 42% +1%
MS 7% NC
NC 69% -2%
NJ 1% NC
SC 51% -1%
TN 33% NC
TX 0% NC
VA 51% -1%
WV 6% -1%

[flybouy]

Yesterday I drove from home in MD to Rehobeth Beach, DE (Massey's Landing). Didn't see a single station closed and didn't see any pumps closed off between the end of RT. 1 toll road and Rehobeth.

[BigBobIa]

In Austin Texas and no shortages but diesel prices amaze me. In a 1 mile stretch saw $2.69 2.99 2.79 and 2.99. My question becomes is all diesel the same energy value? Why pay 30 cents a gallon more?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by BigBobIa

In Austin Texas and no shortages but diesel prices amaze me. In a 1 mile stretch saw $2.69 2.99 2.79 and 2.99. My question becomes is all diesel the same energy value? Why pay 30 cents a gallon more?

Price "gouging" is certainly a consideration in explaining differences in pricing between fuel stations in the same area. Brand, competition, location of station (convenience to get into/exit from the highway) are also reasons why some stations can sell fuel for more than the station across the road (where truckers have to make a left turn to get into the station and there's no left turn lane except 2 blocks further down the road) ...

Also, this time of year, refineries and fuel distributors are changing from winter blend to summer blend diesel. Some price differences may simply mean that the distributor has already delivered the more expensive summer blend while the station across the street is still selling winter blend and his distributor doesn't switch blends until next week....

Diesel isn't quite the same as gasoline when it comes to "uniformity between distributors"... While all diesel "meets minimum federal standards" some goes a bit further and meets "top tier" requirements.

Then, add the amount of "bio diesel" that's blended into the fuel. Some stations are "bio free" some blend 5% and some blend 10 or 15%... So, how much "french fry oil" is blended into your diesel affects the price probably more than the amount of #1 diesel that's added to prevent gelling.

[sourdough]

I don't believe there is any rhyme or reason to price disparities between stations really. Brand, type fuel, distribution; in reality all are about the same in any given locale at any given time. A little bit of variance but not a lot. BUT..

I think in addition to the items listed above a lot depends on the particular station, ownership, how important volume gas sales are to them and their willingness to "gouge" customers....because.

Case in point; my little burg in W TX. The price for fuel has been between 2.85 and 2.99 gal. for 86 proof forever. When gas prices in the bigger town down the road got to 2.19 we did get to 2.79 as I recall. I can drive 50 miles and save .30-.70 per gal on any day. EVERY station in town (all of them) have exactly the same price. The day one goes up, they all go up. Seems as if they have a conference call and everyone runs out and makes the change together.

How/why does this happen? I have no idea. The price of gasoline at the wholesale/distributor level is fluctuating but the pricing doesn't really reflect it. I suspect that it's because they have a captive audience. The entire town has no other option for fuel other than the stations here unless they want to drive an hour. The stations want to make the max they can off fuel so they pick a high price and let it stay rain or shine. Those passing through (we have 5 highways intersect here but no interstate) that need fuel are captive as well.

This phenomenom has been brought up twice in the local newspaper. Each time the prices inexplicably dropped about .10gal the day after the newspaper came out. Within a week or so the price climbs right back to where it was. It's just a game with a commodity everyone has to have.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by BigBobIa

In Austin Texas and no shortages but diesel prices amaze me. In a 1 mile stretch saw $2.69 2.99 2.79 and 2.99. My question becomes is all diesel the same energy value? Why pay 30 cents a gallon more?

LOCATION, LOCATION,LOCATION. The same reason a $6 pit beef sandwich is $14 at the stadium, or the $18 hose on line is $30 at the campground.

[JRTJH]

In our "little corner of the world" 10 years ago, there was one oil distributor. That company owned all but two of the local gas stations. The only way those two stations could get gas delivered was to buy from the local distributor or buy from a distributor 50 miles away. Buying local was really the only option since delivery charges made the "cheaper gas more expensive"... The only way the local distributor would sell to them was with a "retail price agreement"... So effectively the distributor had a monopoly and we had the highest gas prices in the area. Local government supports "local business" so they controlled the ability of any business from moving in or creating competition.

Along came WalMart. The only way they could build a store was to sign a "non-compete clause" and agree to not build a "Murphy oil station" in the parking lot for 5 years. Meijer then built about 5 years ago, but built "just on the outskirts of town" and they built a gas station. That opened the floodgates. The Meijer station had lines around the block and 30-50 cent/gallon lower prices. At the end of that 5 year period, WalMart was free to build their Murphy station. Now there are two "independent suppliers with lower prices" and all the "local distributor owned stations" are now "competing with the big boys and prices are lower everywhere".... Competition is a good thing and our local fuel prices now mirror the nearby towns... Before WalMart and Meijer, not so much.....

[jasin1]

Price gouging.. a special place in hell for people like that

[gearhead]

Here's where they want to lead us...
https://www.sustainable-markets.org/...F-4FQtAsWnW5hA

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by gearhead

Here's where they want to lead us...
https://www.sustainable-markets.org/...F-4FQtAsWnW5hA

As soon as we get my truck running on hydrogen, I will go out to the cattle ranches nearby and put corks in the tail pipes of the cows to keep the methane out of the atmosphere. Or maybe talk to our buds the Chinese and Indians and ask them to let up on their pollution which is adding more crud to the air by far than the good 'ol bleeding heart US of A (or in this case the Brits and their team of double talking hydrogen folks).

[gearhead]

We had this discussion a while back. Not sure how they plan to make hydrogen, boiling brine with electricity I guess. Sounds like chasing our tails to me.
I was pretty much a bottom feeder at Shell, but the very few times I was near those European head office types, 2 of the CEO's in fact, they were acting like they didn't have a clue where they were. Several conversations among us about how many lines of nose candy they were doing on their conference table. And they want to team up with the perv Prince of Wales.
There is a reason it is named ROYAL Dutch Shell...royal families of England and Netherlands are 60/40, 60 Royal Dutch, 40 Shell, the original owners.
And they own 16% of Colonial Pipeline.

[sourdough]

And George....you get the prize!! We get the Green New Deal, go back to the stone ages, give up every modern convenience while the other industrialized nations keep right at it and keep on moving up the food chain....without a "Green New Deal". Here we are trying to cure the world of something we didn't cause.....climate change.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by sourdough

And George....you get the prize!! We get the Green New Deal, go back to the stone ages, give up every modern convenience while the other industrialized nations keep right at it and keep on moving up the food chain....without a "Green New Deal". Here we are trying to cure the world of something we didn't cause.....climate change.

I agree. But my post ?
Eh too political I guess. Back to trailers and fifth wheels

[notanlines]

Jasin, I thought you were dead on the money! But only in second place, sorry.