It finally happened .....

[pdaniel]

Yup. The short baffles in my pipes have a, well, an awakening effect…

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Dallasrules

We had our first campers from he'll confrontation last Thursday night. My trailervhas been at this campground since June. We go down 3 to 4 nights a week. I have a German Shepherd service dog. He is 4 1/2 and he is incredible. He is with me almost 24 house a 7day. He is trained to hand, voice commands, and clicks. He works off lead on an electronic collar because I can't physically handle him on a leash. The last time we were at the trailer our current neighbors took offense to him being off lead even after it was explained he was a service dog. We didn't argue with them because we were going home and figured they would be gone when we came back. No such luck. Apparently they got together with some people a couple of trailers down on the other side. We got there about 10 at night and I took the dog out while my husband unloaded the car. He brought me his ball and wanted to play a little. I took his gear off and headed to a remote corner of the campground where I take him to unwind a bit. I threw the ball a couple of times in the road on the way there. When we got there, there was a deer and my dog chased it. I yelled at him STOP. OFF!. He froze where he was and came back to me. Some other people out walking we amazed that he was so responsive. I was walking back up to the trailer and these guys asked if he was my service dog. I put him down at my feet with a hand command and said yes. They started yelling at me and said he wasn't a service dog because they don't do things like that and his sister trained service dogs and he has to be on a leash. I just shrugged my shoulders and he said what does that mean? I said everyone has opinions. I got back to the trailer and they had already called security. Must have called as soon as we pulled in. We hadn't been there 10 minutes. I showed the guard his badge and gear and put him in a down at my feet where he stayed the entire time. He was talking to another guard on the phone, and they asked if he could be put on a leash and I said no. That's not what he is trained for. I demonstrated how he works for me on commands. They had told security he was running lose and was dangerous and they were scared of him. I told security that if they were scared the resort could offer to let them move. They didn't move so I guess they are not that scared. I am home now, but I really hope they are gone when we get back. I guess there are trouble makers everywhere.

Sorry this was so long of a rant

I empathize with you but understand the feelings of the other folks as well. Far too many abuse the service dog exemptions (I have one as well). That combined with the fact that virtually every campground stipulates in writing that all dogs must be leashed and attended at all times (and I've never seen a service dog unleashed anywhere in the general public) would understandably lead to the others consternation. I would be in their shoes as well as my dog has been attacked twice while leashed by unleashed dogs.

I just stayed at a park where folks did about what you did (not service dogs); took their dogs off their leashes to go "play". They told me the first day I met them they knew the rules but didn't want to abide by them because they didn't like to leash their dogs. I told them I had a dog and she would be on a leash and it would be very beneficial for their dogs if they didn't come at us as has happened in the past. They said they wouldn't (but they put them inside every time we came out).

In the eyes of those other campers you were breaking/flouting the rules and when a "service dog" takes off and chases deer while under command of their master??....that would raise eyebrows.

Just trying to look at it from the other folks view. If it were me, and I could not put my dog on a leash, I think I would tell that to the front desk when I made my reservations so at least there was a heads up to the facility then be prepared to deal with the ramifications.

[Bob Landry]

The last trip to our favorite COE campground, several groups had gathered at the site next to us. They commenced their party that went on until 1AM. I talked to the gate hosts the next day and asked what could be done. I was told that the next time it happened, call 311 and the local PD would be happy to send officers.
The next evening, they cranked up again around 8 and I knew it was going tobe another loud night. At 10:10 I called 311, reported a disturbance in the park and inside of 20 minutes 2 cruisers showed up, 10 minutes later the party was over and within 20 minutes they disbursed. We have not had another incident since, but if we do, I know what to do.
Never, never confront a group that is drinking. There will be a fight, guaranteed. Let the police take care of it and enjoy a good nights sleep.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I empathize with you but understand the feelings of the other folks as well. Far too many abuse the service dog exemptions (I have one as well). That combined with the fact that virtually every campground stipulates in writing that all dogs must be leashed and attended at all times (and I've never seen a service dog unleashed anywhere in the general public) would understandably lead to the others consternation. I would be in their shoes as well as my dog has been attacked twice while leashed by unleashed dogs.

I just stayed at a park where folks did about what you did (not service dogs); took their dogs off their leashes to go "play". They told me the first day I met them they knew the rules but didn't want to abide by them because they didn't like to leash their dogs. I told them I had a dog and she would be on a leash and it would be very beneficial for their dogs if they didn't come at us as has happened in the past. They said they wouldn't (but they put them inside every time we came out).

In the eyes of those other campers you were breaking/flouting the rules and when a "service dog" takes off and chases deer while under command of their master??....that would raise eyebrows.

Just trying to look at it from the other folks view. If it were me, and I could not put my dog on a leash, I think I would tell that to the front desk when I made my reservations so at least there was a heads up to the facility then be prepared to deal with the ramifications.

I agree with Danny on this. I've never seen a trained service dog off leash or get distracted to the point of chasing wildlife. If the dog "can't be leashed" or trusted not to get distracted then I would think the dog needs more training. We tend to stay in CGs that have a dog run or a fenced area where the dog can run. If that doesn't exist than I will take the dog to a field and depending on size/condition will attach one or two 25' cable leads to the leash to allow him to run while maintaining constant physical control.

[notanlines]

Dallas, Danny made some great points. So often we’ve heard the old BS story, “Don’t worry, he won’t hurt you.”
My job is to worry where dogs are running loose in the park.
This is taken from ADA guidelines, and may be somewhat informative to a few:
"The ADA requires the animal to be under the control of the handler. This can occur using a harness, leash, or other tether. However, in cases where either the handler is unable to hold a tether because of a disability or its use would interfere with the service animal’s safe, effective performance of work or tasks, the service animal must be under the handler’s control by some other means, such as voice control.”
You are confident that your “Rufus” wouldn’t ever hurt
a flea, other campers can’t take your word for this.
Maybe Rufus should just be on a leash.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by jasin1

The problem is that so many people have abused the service dog definition…. people try to fly with emotional dogs ,pigs and chickens nowadays…

You ain't seen nothin' yet...

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by LHaven

You ain't seen nothin' yet...

Pilot probably

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHaGuUP5uOI

[Dallasrules]

My dog has 2 electronic collars. One I control and the second one activates automatically if he is more than 20' from me. I was talking to some people when the deer broke the woods and my dog did start after it. They were amazed that he stopped dead in his tracks at my command.

I do understand all the issues with fake service dogs. I deal with that as much or more than anyone else. I just don't think they had any right to verbally attack me. Plus, they would have had to call security before the incident happened. They would have had to call as soon as we arrived.

Most of the security staff and the management know me and my dog. I wasn't worried about that. I just don't need anyone yelling at me and ambushing me. In 5 1/2 years, I have never had an experience like that.

[gearhead]

I have no problem calling 911 on someone in a campground. I won't wait until the next day.
Some of y'all know how I feel about dogs that are not controlled. I will put a 9mm between their eyes if I feel threatened. I know someone that has a fake German Shephard service dog. If that animal ever acts aggressive to me, he's a goner.
You play by the rules and I will too. If you don't, I won't either.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Dallasrules

My dog has 2 electronic collars. One I control and the second one activates automatically if he is more than 20' from me. I was talking to some people when the deer broke the woods and my dog did start after it. They were amazed that he stopped dead in his tracks at my command.

I do understand all the issues with fake service dogs. I deal with that as much or more than anyone else. I just don't think they had any right to verbally attack me. Plus, they would have had to call security before the incident happened. They would have had to call as soon as we arrived.

Most of the security staff and the management know me and my dog. I wasn't worried about that. I just don't need anyone yelling at me and ambushing me. In 5 1/2 years, I have never had an experience like that.

I think you completely misunderstand the ADA, and your responsibilities with a service dog. A service dog, while in service, is supposed to be 100% under your control. When you decide to take "puppy" out to "get his edge off", throw a ball and let him go do "whatever", puppy is no longer a service dog...he is no longer providing a service, you are "playing" with a dog. At that time your dog, and you, are 100% responsible for your pup's actions and then responsible to follow all rules that pertain to dogs....not service dogs (BTDT).

I don't think anyone "ambushed" you, I think you abused the rules for your pup and thought trying to "stretch" ADA rules should give you some sort of "leeway"; it doesn't. I see it all the time.

I've had a "service dog" pin me at my door while the "lady" talked on the phone in front of me while my pup and myself could not even get out of the door....so she could laugh and talk on the phone....even as I asked her to get that dog off myself and doggy repeatedly as we could not even come down the steps. Finally told her the dog had to be restrained before it bit me or pup or I would shoot it. She picked up the molester, cuddled it and cried....and finally left. They decided they needed to leave the next morning (thank goodness) and I stepped outside to "see them off". He asked if I was proud of making his wife cry and threatening to shoot their dog; told him she was incapable of taking care of their shrieking/attacking dog and it was sad he/she were incapable of taking care of "their" business - they left.

A service dog is not a "free pass" to trample on everyone. Many/most do not appreciate a service dog in many places, you have to be very careful and "stay in bounds". Many service dog owners just throw it in folks faces and go on, makes people unhappy understandably.

In this situation I think the owner of the dog made big errors in the way they handle their "service" dog and did not show the proper respect nor illustrate they had a true service dog. IMO it's another example of folks abusing the great opening the ADA gave those that have disabilities and then making folks without service animals face a hurdle due to trying to push unreasonable boundaries. JMO/YMMV

[Dallasrules]

So I have a question? When the dog is off duty to go to the bathroom or to play for a few minutes, you say he is no longer a service dog and therefore should be on a leash. But, I am still disabled and still can not handle a leashed dog. So is he never supposed to go to the bathroom or to play?

Plus the people called security as soon as we arrived and before I even took him out or they wouldn't be there that fast. The dog didn't have his vest on, yet this stranger I had never met immediately asked if that was my service dog. He never threatened anyone, or approached anyone in any way. They had it planned and were waiting.

[notanlines]

Dallas, "Plus the people called security as soon as we arrived and before I even took him out or they wouldn't be there that fast. The dog didn't have his vest on, yet this stranger I had never met immediately asked if that was my service dog. He never threatened anyone, or approached anyone in any way. They had it planned and were waiting."
Why do I believe there's something more to this story?

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Dallas, "Plus the people called security as soon as we arrived and before I even took him out or they wouldn't be there that fast. The dog didn't have his vest on, yet this stranger I had never met immediately asked if that was my service dog. He never threatened anyone, or approached anyone in any way. They had it planned and were waiting."
Why do I believe there's something more to this story?

Yes there is something else going on.
Why not get a service dog you can physically handle instead of a big German Shephard? What does this dog do that a 15 pound Beagle can't do?
I think you are getting some satisfaction from intimidating people, and picking a fight over your dog.

[flybouy]

Can't hold a leash but can throw a ball? Didn’t have his "service dog vest" identifying the dog? Suprised someone perhaps had "had enough" and notified security? Perhaps security was close by, or perhaps someone was "laying in wait" because they had too many past experiences.

How does the dog play or relieve itself? See my previous post on what I do. Our is not a "highly trained service dog. He's a hunting breed (Brittany Spaniel) so I don’t trust him off leash because I know he'll do what he's bread to do, go chase game. If he were trained not to do that I still would not allow it as it's against the CG rules .. PERIOD. Folks in cities, towns, communities all over this country obey the leash laws or they can get fined. Their dogs, mostly untrained, many mutts, live happily with these reasonable restrictions.

I don’t know your personal situation but I am familiar with disabilities. I have a freind that's quadriplegic. His service dog is tethered to yhe wheelchair when he goes outside. I have a BIL with severe PTSD from his service in Vietnam. He has a little tiny service dog that he takes evetwhere, even restaurants. The dog stays in a small soft sided travel carrier and ALWAYS has it's service dog vest on when in public.

From the one side that I've read I would have called security as well. The ADA law protects the disabled from being discriminated against and does not exempt the disabled from all rules, regulations, or laws. I don’t understand how anyone could be upset with someone who allows their dog off leash in a CG. I have never heard af a dog attacking another dog, or mualing a child or adult if they were controlled on a leash. I have read many accounts of dog attacks where yhe victime was told, or thought the attacking dog was freindly.

If uou think about it logically the best trained dogs in the world are military and law enforcement animals. Have you ever seen one off leash in public? Watch any AKA show and you'll see dogs only off leash when in a completly controlled environment such as the "ring" when doing agility competitions.

INMHO all I've read are excuses for behavior that violates the CG rules that you agreed to when staying there.

[Bob Landry]

Despite any rationale, explanations, or excuse, a leash law or rule is exactly that. If there is an incident involving an unleashed dog, you are responsible from both a legal and a civil standpoint. The risk you are willing to take is your choice.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Dallasrules

So I have a question? When the dog is off duty to go to the bathroom or to play for a few minutes, you say he is no longer a service dog and therefore should be on a leash. But, I am still disabled and still can not handle a leashed dog. So is he never supposed to go to the bathroom or to play?

Plus the people called security as soon as we arrived and before I even took him out or they wouldn't be there that fast. The dog didn't have his vest on, yet this stranger I had never met immediately asked if that was my service dog. He never threatened anyone, or approached anyone in any way. They had it planned and were waiting.

A "service" dog gets that name, and very special treatment, for a reason; they provide a needed service to a person with an ADA qualified disability. They are NOT providing that service when out playing. My dog plays on my properties or in designated areas where it is allowed - not in RV parks where it is disallowed (unless in a leash free enclosed area at a park).

Anytime the animal is with you, providing the designated service, and has to use the bathroom that's understandable. My dog does not go unless she is taken out for a "bathroom" walk. She completely understands the difference between being in public and "working" vs kick back time with us - she would never, and never has, decided to "potty" while working in public. On " "potty breaks" the dog should be leashed as well - you can't just pop the door open, send them out to "do business" and claim they are a service dog - you will always have trouble if you do that as well as give other true service animal owners a bad name.

Here is an excerpt from the ADA FAQs:

"The service animal must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered while in public places unless these devices interfere with the service animal's work or the person's disability prevents use of these devices. In that case, the person must use voice, signal, or other effective means to maintain control of the animal. For example, a person who uses a wheelchair may use a long, retractable leash to allow her service animal to pick up or retrieve items. She may not allow the dog to wander away from her and must maintain control of the dog, even if it is retrieving an item at a distance from her."

The portion in red is where you say you are. The portion in blue gives an example of a person that can't really have a service dog on a normal leash but goes further to state that the dog cannot wander and they must maintain control.

There's no need to go a lot further with that as throwing a ball and "playing" with the dog unleashed are obviously outside the parameters of what the ADA envisioned as "service". As I said, the activities mentioned originally are not meant to be covered by ADA and people know it. The ability to have a trained service dog, and use it in public, is a privilege and gives those with disabilities freedoms they could only dream about many decades ago. Those privileges come at a price with lots of responsibilities for both the animal and owner to adhere to - some very strict ADA guidelines. A service dog owner has to always bear in mind the perception they are leaving of "service dogs" and service dog owners. Many feel anyone using a service dog is "cheating", "breaking the rules" etc. not understanding their true purpose. Some owners perpetuate those feelings by the way they handle their "service dog".

Years ago I spent as much time, or more, traveling staying in condos, hotels etc. with our dog. As time went on the above scenarios continued to play out most everywhere we went. The number of abusers continued to climb and the skepticism from various businesses was evident. A few years back we made the decision to travel almost exclusively with the RV so that we could control our own environment. I hope those same problems that were starting to pervade condos, hotels and motels don't now come to RV parks. Sorry for the long post.