Raptor 413 surprise

[Mayne_Doc]

Thanks everyone. I am taking to heart all comments. I haven't bought the truck yet so everything you are telling me is getting registered. I would have bought a lighter RV but I need the space.

[Mayne_Doc]

Quick Question: The 5ver dry weight and load rating is 17,000 with a hitch of 3150lbs. Is it still of the opinion that the F350 SRW with a rating of 19,000 doesn't have a large enough margin for towing capacity? I realize I must take into consideration the payload items such as hitch, options and cargo.

Thanks for the help

Karel

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Mayne_Doc

Quick Question: The 5ver dry weight and load rating is 17,000 with a hitch of 3150lbs. Is it still of the opinion that the F350 SRW with a rating of 19,000 doesn't have a large enough margin for towing capacity? I realize I must take into consideration the payload items such as hitch, options and cargo.

Thanks for the help

Karel

I don’t have a large toy hauler like you but my fiver is a little over 12000 lbs and I feel a lot better having 6 wheels on my TV. I would say that looking at almost all of the YouTube videos and just pictures of toy hauler rigs I would say the majority all have dually trucks. If you get a flat on your TV or blowout it could get ugly quick.
It just makes sense in the long run....the difference between a 8’ srw vs 8’ bed drw isn’t that much as far as daily driving. It’s just a little wider in the back but WAY more capable..a relative of mine chose a f450 for his toy hauler.
Eventually you may want an auxiliary fuel tank in the truck bed( you can do that with a dually and that fifth wheel). May want to get electric bikes,kayaks different grill... the point is the possibility’s are endless with the right combination

[chuckster57]

Flat tire? BTDT in Missouri on I 40 with previous 5er hooked up. Lost inner DS rear tire. Eased off the road and changed it. 4 tires in the rear are the way to go.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Mayne_Doc

Quick Question: The 5ver dry weight and load rating is 17,000 with a hitch of 3150lbs. Is it still of the opinion that the F350 SRW with a rating of 19,000 doesn't have a large enough margin for towing capacity? I realize I must take into consideration the payload items such as hitch, options and cargo.

Thanks for the help

Karel

The "key to answering the bolded question" is What type of trailer are you talking about ??? Ford, in their specifications uses the SAE J2807 Towing Certification. The "certification process" uses a flatbed trailer, in this case, a gooseneck flatbed trailer" with concrete blocks of the appropriate weight to meet the "certification weight" of 19000 pounds.

The "process" calls for a 15% pin weight (19000 x 0.15 = 2850). So, Ford adjusts the concrete blocks foreward/aft over the axles, until the weight on the gooseneck ball is 2850 pounds, then they tow the trailer for the test processes.

That "certification" is nowhere near the real world towing stressors that you'll place on a F350 truck with a 2021 Carbon 348. Just the "dry pin weight" is 3130, which is 280 pounds greater than the "certification test trailer", and that's for the EMPTY Carbon 348...

Plus, using a flatbed trailer with no 12' tall sidewall that's 41' long (in reality, a 492 square foot "sail"... When you consider that a 30' sailboat uses slightly more than 75% of that to propel it through the water at 15-20 knots, it's easy to see that the dynamic forces placed on the truck by a Carbon 348 are significantly different than the "test bed trailer"....

Ford uses "apples to certify the test" and you're going to be towing "oranges" behind your truck. You can't "load it up to the limit" and expect safe, reliable towing...

There's significantly more to towing an RV, especially a 13+ foot tall one that weighs in between 16 and 17 thousand pounds, behind a single rear wheel truck that's "rated to tow a 19,000 pound flatbed trailer under ideal conditions..... Your trailer will take any F350 SRW truck out of "ideal conditions" just by being hitched behind it...

In other words, those "J2807 test certifications" don't apply to what you're asking the truck to do (other than total pounds of weight). Towing is significantly different from pulling... Towing a RV is significantly different from towing a flatbed trailer with blocks of concrete placed strategically over the axles to obtain the "perfect pin weight"....

[chunker]

Originally Posted by Mayne_Doc

Quick Question: The 5ver dry weight and load rating is 17,000 with a hitch of 3150lbs. Is it still of the opinion that the F350 SRW with a rating of 19,000 doesn't have a large enough margin for towing capacity? I realize I must take into consideration the payload items such as hitch, options and cargo.

Thanks for the help

Karel

20% or 17,000 is 3400, 25% is 4250. Those are the % you deal with in 5th wheels pin weight. After the pin still need to add the weight of the hitch, people, tools, cooler, etc. carried in the truck. Yes DRW territory. If the SRW is diesel the payload by the yellow tire and loading sticker for any particular truck is probably close to 4200 for a mid trim truck. Add other factory options such as moon roof, higher trim and the truck weighs more leaving the factory and payload is less. Get a SRW in XL trim 2WD and you'll have more payload.

[Mayne_Doc]

John. Great info and I get it. Ford wants to have high towing capacities; it’s great for marketing. Just to clarify the Ford capacity I mentioned is for 5th wheel towing for a F350 8’ 4x4 with a super cab. The gooseneck rating is higher. The conventional towing is lower.

I know with this trailer I will need a horse. All of your advice is much appreciated. I will not be traveling a lot with this - snowbirding and some trips to visit family. The main purpose will be as a tiny home while I build a cottage. I am realizing I am trying to get everything accomplished and am making compromises. I will not compromise safety and this discussion has made me rethink so thank you.

Karel

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Mayne_Doc

John. Great info and I get it. Ford wants to have high towing capacities; it’s great for marketing. Just to clarify the Ford capacity I mentioned is for 5th wheel towing for a F350 8’ 4x4 with a super cab. The gooseneck rating is higher. The conventional towing is lower.

I know with this trailer I will need a horse. All of your advice is much appreciated. I will not be traveling a lot with this - snowbirding and some trips to visit family. The main purpose will be as a tiny home while I build a cottage. I am realizing I am trying to get everything accomplished and am making compromises. I will not compromise safety and this discussion has made me rethink so thank you.

Karel

The SAE J2807 certification uses every chassis/drive/engine option and then every trailer hitch option, gooseneck, fifth wheel, conventional hitch. Each truck style and power option are certified to tow in all three categories of trailer. So, the same process of hitching a flatbed fifth wheel trailer (brand of trailer, length, tire size and even which fifth wheel hitch must be used are all defined by SAE) to the truck, loading those same concrete weights and performing the same "test track performance requirements"...

In the end, towing a utility trailer (which is what's used for the SAE certs) or a boat or a flatbed trailer with a bulldozer weighing 19000 pounds, just does not put the same stressors on the tow vehicle and that kind of towing does not replicate towing a long, tall, flat sidewall recreational vehicle.

I'd make a WAG (maybe even a SWAG) that if Ford or any other manufacturer used a trailer like you're considering to perform the SAE J2807 tests, we'd see those "brochure numbers" fall dramatically from the artificially high "unrealistic trailer numbers"...

[AbHDToyHauler]

I will add this advice. I have a 38' toyhauler. Empty was about 14000+ and fully loaded max is 16,200. I haul heavy motorcycles in garage. I had a 2018 GMC 3500 HD SRW. Fully loaded it towed fine. Wind no wind , was quite suprised with how well it towed and handled. But ..... I was also pretty much within 400 lbs of max towing and that just kept nagging at me (and the guys on here's advice after I had already bought the truck). So I convinced myself and then my wife that we should just move up to the dually and be safe and happy.
So in October I moved up to a GMC 3500HD Denali DRW and I drive it everywhere and have zero issues so far. It can tow almost double what I have and that extra set of tires gives alot of confidence as to what would happen if we blow a truck rear tire. I did have benefit of driving my old 3500 for 3 years and was quite used to it so not that big of a change in driving the Dually. Other then it makes me smile everytime I look at it or drive it! Towing or not ! LOL
So, in closing , you have great chance to get it right the first time rather then do what most of us have done a buy the wrong truck for what we want to do.

[nellie1289]

Does anyone know what one of the new f350's with a gasser in SRW CC config actually are for payload, if the diesels are roughly 4,000(they are), the gasser is likely 5000? They are like unicorns, cause nobody wants a gasser in the f350 SRW CC, so think you would have to order.

By the way my brother in law has a 2021 CC LB Lariat powerstroke SRW, 12,400 GVWR, his yellow sticker says 4,319 lbs.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by chunker

20% or 17,000 is 3400, 25% is 4250. Those are the % you deal with in 5th wheels pin weight. After the pin still need to add the weight of the hitch, people, tools, cooler, etc. carried in the truck. Yes DRW territory. If the SRW is diesel the payload by the yellow tire and loading sticker for any particular truck is probably close to 4200 for a mid trim truck. Add other factory options such as moon roof, higher trim and the truck weighs more leaving the factory and payload is less. Get a SRW in XL trim 2WD and you'll have more payload.

Even an XL will not get much better than 4,200# payload, people with TH don’t drive 4X2’s so likely about 4,000# only leaving max 600# for passengers, hitch and stuff.

[chunker]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Even an XL will not get much better than 4,200# payload, people with TH don’t drive 4X2’s so likely about 4,000# only leaving max 600# for passengers, hitch and stuff.

And that's my point exactly. It is possible but virtually no one buys the truck which fits that bill. I dare say no one could even find that SRW truck on any dealer's lot.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by chunker

And that's my point exactly. It is possible but virtually no one buys the truck which fits that bill. I dare say no one could even find that SRW truck on any dealer's lot.

And, I'd speculate that you can't special order one like that without first putting DW and the dog on a diet to keep that "surplus 600 pounds" available as the safety margin...

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Even an XL will not get much better than 4,200# payload, people with TH don’t drive 4X2’s so likely about 4,000# only leaving max 600# for passengers, hitch and stuff.

Originally Posted by JRTJH

And, I'd speculate that you can't special order one like that without first putting DW and the dog on a diet to keep that "surplus 600 pounds" available as the safety margin...

Originally Posted by chunker

And that's my point exactly. It is possible but virtually no one buys the truck which fits that bill. I dare say no one could even find that SRW truck on any dealer's lot.

Case in point, our 5er has a 2,700# pin, I thought about post 2013 Ram Laramie 3500 SRW Cummins with about 4,200# payload. Well I have an in bed tool box that has some heavy stuff in it, 5er hitch, DW, and dog worth about 1,400#, and you see why we have a DRW!

[pablopwnage]

Originally Posted by AbHDToyHauler

I will add this advice. I have a 38' toyhauler. Empty was about 14000+ and fully loaded max is 16,200. I haul heavy motorcycles in garage. I had a 2018 GMC 3500 HD SRW. Fully loaded it towed fine. Wind no wind , was quite suprised with how well it towed and handled. But ..... I was also pretty much within 400 lbs of max towing and that just kept nagging at me (and the guys on here's advice after I had already bought the truck). So I convinced myself and then my wife that we should just move up to the dually and be safe and happy.
So in October I moved up to a GMC 3500HD Denali DRW and I drive it everywhere and have zero issues so far. It can tow almost double what I have and that extra set of tires gives alot of confidence as to what would happen if we blow a truck rear tire. I did have benefit of driving my old 3500 for 3 years and was quite used to it so not that big of a change in driving the Dually. Other then it makes me smile everytime I look at it or drive it! Towing or not ! LOL
So, in closing , you have great chance to get it right the first time rather then do what most of us have done a buy the wrong truck for what we want to do.

I’m in exactly the same situation! I just bought an F350 6.7L SRW this year (that I absolutely LOVE). We were originally going to go with a smaller trailer at first but I need a dedicated office since I work remotely which makes the toy hauler style the best fit since I can convert the garage. And then of course the only floor plan that my wife and I could agree on was the 423 Raptor...

Pin weight is 3390 dry/15185 dry VW and we don’t ever plan on hauling toys so after crunching the numbers I know I am under, but without much breathing room. I’ve already accepted that I’m going to have to swap up to a DRW after reading all the great advice on this forum. It’s going to cost me, but I can’t really put a price on the safety of my wife and daughter.

Wish I had found this forum BEFORE I bought the truck

[Mayne_Doc]

I am going to the Ford dealer on Thursday. I will try to see what the payload is on the big gas 7.4L gas F350 with a crew cab. I want an extended cab with the long bed so I know I will have to order it.

I’ll let you know. I am now glad I bought the 5ver before the truck!

[Mayne_Doc]

Hi.

Was just at the dealership planning to order my F350 6.7 Turbo DWR extended cab Laramie in May. My 5fer is a Carbon 348 with a GVWR of about 17,000.

I have a question about a few things:

4.1 or 3.55??? Which is recommended and what exactly does this decision effect?

Alternator choices: any reason to order higher/heavier duty alternator?

I looked at the payload on a 2021 F350 Laramie DRW on the lot and it was about 5600lbs.

Did not see a 7.3L Gasser Crewcab so didn't get the payload. Ford.com's specs on that don't seem to be specific to engine type.

Thank you for the help. I posted these questions on another thread on-topic too.

I am so happy I found you all - I was going to make a big mistake on the tow vehicle.

Karel

__________________
Karel
2021 Carbon 348
Retired veterinarian with 3 3-legged cats.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Mayne_Doc

Hi.

Was just at the dealership planning to order my F350 6.7 Turbo DWR extended cab Laramie in May. My 5fer is a Carbon 348 with a GVWR of about 17,000.

I have a question about a few things:

4.1 or 3.55??? Which is recommended and what exactly does this decision effect?

Alternator choices: any reason to order higher/heavier duty alternator?

I looked at the payload on a 2021 F350 Laramie DRW on the lot and it was about 5600lbs.

Did not see a 7.3L Gasser Crewcab so didn't get the payload. Ford.com's specs on that don't seem to be specific to engine type.

Thank you for the help. I posted these questions on another thread on-topic too.

I am so happy I found you all - I was going to make a big mistake on the tow vehicle.

Karel

__________________
Karel
2021 Carbon 348
Retired veterinarian with 3 3-legged cats.

I answered I the other thread.. I would get the 4:10 if I had a choice.
If it was a truck that was sitting on the lot that had everything else I wanted then I wouldn’t hesitate if it was 3:73 or 4:10


With 3:55 ... seems like it’s gonna be sluggish with that large of a fifth wheel.
And please don’t ask this on a third thread lol. It can get confusing
And congratulations on the new truck!

[dronning]

Originally Posted by Mayne_Doc

Hi.

....
4.1 or 3.55??? Which is recommended and what exactly does this decision effect?

Karel

__________________
Karel
2021 Carbon 348
Retired veterinarian with 3 3-legged cats.

If it has the 10 speed and you are pulling under 20K I'd go with the 3.55 for the better fuel economy - unless you plan to spend a lot of time in the mountains. Look at the gear ratio's that 10 speed has a pretty low 1st gear and great ratio spacing. With 1K in torque you should be fine.
- Dave

https://tfltruck.com/2018/02/ask-tfl...towing-camper/

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by dronning

If it has the 10 speed and you are pulling under 20K I'd go with the 3.55 for the better fuel economy - unless you plan to spend a lot of time in the mountains. Look at the gear ratio's that 10 speed has a pretty low 1st gear and great ratio spacing. With 1K in torque you should be fine.
- Dave

https://tfltruck.com/2018/02/ask-tfl...towing-camper/

I touched on that in the other post where he asked this question.. I think even gmc/ Chevy changed up the gearing with the 10 speed.. i would personally skip the new 10 speed and go with the base 6 speed with 4:10 if available ...I don’t like trying anything the first year it’s in production..I think on the tfl hill challenge they were saying the Chevy was hard to predict the gear changes and even ran away downhill at one point but I could be mistaken it may have been the Ford that did that.

I picked my ram with the Aisin because the same hill challenge it basically stayed an even speed with exhaust brake and cruise control without having to touch the brakes
Edit: can’t get the 6 speed in that configuration only the 6.2 f250 f350
I don’t think people buy 1 ton duallys for good fuel economy.
I don’t think I’ve ever figured out fuel economy on any vehicle I’ve ever owned except I did notice my 2005 5.9 cummins was over 20 mpg.
I will say my new truck seems to register a little higher on the computer then my old but it really makes no difference to me either way
If you decide to go bigger one day with a bigger toy hauler or maybe a luxury fifth wheel( mobile suites or equivalent) you won’t be on the low side of the numbers. I think it would be easier to sell in the future also if you needed to. It comes in 3:55,4:10 or 4:30 For my money I like the 4:10