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Old 05-20-2020, 05:33 AM   #21
JRTJH
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Originally Posted by Snoking View Post
This is the fan I installed on the upper cover blowing air out.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Chris
I bet that "cool blue light" emanating from the roof vent gives a unique look to the trailer at night... And, if you want to operate in winter, the red one would add "warmth and charm" to the roof.. Maybe even serve as a "beacon for Santa" since RV'ers often have no permanent address....

Gives a whole new meaning to "Red light district"
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:21 AM   #22
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I bet that "cool blue light" emanating from the roof vent gives a unique look to the trailer at night... And, if you want to operate in winter, the red one would add "warmth and charm" to the roof.. Maybe even serve as a "beacon for Santa" since RV'ers often have no permanent address....

Gives a whole new meaning to "Red light district"
OH the roof vents!!! That is one of the major issue with most 2118 installation in slide outs. NO Roof vent to create a good chimney effect creating the required air flow.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:30 AM   #23
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OH the roof vents!!! That is one of the major issue with most 2118 installation in slide outs. NO Roof vent to create a good chimney effect creating the required air flow.
I thought the blue fan made it blow colder air but know I'm thinking it's a factor of the crystal ball that predicted the future issue of the 2118 install.

Sorry, couldn't stop myself.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:47 AM   #24
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I thought the blue fan made it blow colder air but know I'm thinking it's a factor of the crystal ball that predicted the future issue of the 2118 install.

Sorry, couldn't stop myself.
Yeah, the red one would NOT be good for cooling!!!!

The ducting and baffles at the top are very important and sometimes not installed to spec. I also changed the temp switch from 130 to 115 if I remember correctly.
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Old 05-20-2020, 07:57 AM   #25
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Yeah, the red one would NOT be good for cooling!!!!

The ducting and baffles at the top are very important and sometimes not installed to spec. I also changed the temp switch from 130 to 115 if I remember correctly.
What!? Keystone make an install error? Surely you jest!
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Old 05-20-2020, 02:35 PM   #26
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Make sure there's no obstruction in the "chimney", as in nests or other critters.

Also on our fridge, the handles you squeeze to open the doors got sticky, if the don't pop back, the little pins don't pop up to latch the doors. Applies to fridge and freezer. Also make sure the strip at the bottom of the fridge trim is securely popped in place. Ours had popped out on the ends
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:10 PM   #27
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It is also a good idea to put a Nylon washer or two on the lower hinge pin of the left hand door. You pull the trim off on the left side between the upper and lower door, remove the upper hinge and then lift the door off and put the washers on and put it back together.

I have to remove the door latches about every year and clean them to keep the pin from sicking down. We just returned to live in the 5th wheel for the summer and the pin of the right hand door is sticking. Between cleaning up leafs, twigs and burning weeds, I have to put this in the schedule.
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:16 PM   #28
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It is also a good idea to put a Nylon washer or two on the lower hinge pin of the left hand door. You pull the trim off on the left side between the upper and lower door, remove the upper hinge and then lift the door off and put the washers on and put it back together.

I have to remove the door latches about every year and clean them to keep the pin from sicking down. We just returned to live in the 5th wheel for the summer and the pin of the right hand door is sticking. Between cleaning up leafs, twigs and burning weeds, I have to put this in the schedule.

Always plenty to do lol. As for the left panel center strip not going to 90°, I took and sanded the butts of the bottom. Not an issue with that since
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:35 PM   #29
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Always plenty to do lol. As for the left panel center strip not going to 90°, I took and sanded the butts of the bottom. Not an issue with that since
That's exactly what I did on mine. Took it off of the door and unplugged it, laid it down on a bench and went to work with some 80 grit paper and then some 150 grit when done. I haven't had an issue with it since also.


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Old 05-20-2020, 05:13 PM   #30
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Why does our fridge run (seemingly) continously and why can it not hold temp

Straight from Norcold Customer service rep that I got on the phone today.

My two questions were why does my fridge seem to run all the time and why can it not hold temperatures once the day starts to warm up even if we never open a door.

Answers in no particular order of importance.

1) Make certain the trailer is level. No Brainer. Also try to not park the unit in a place where direct sunlight can shine on the outside vent covers. They are black and collect heat. Good think NASA didn't rely on Norcold to get 13 home!
2) 2118 doors sag post installation and even more so if they are filled with heavy liquids while in use. Shims are required. Thin nylon washers work the best. No chance of rusting. Make certain you shim both the L and R doors to the same amount.
3) After shimming or as a "just in case measure" check all door seals by putting a bright light in the fridge/freezer once it is dark in the trailer. Look around the perimeter of each section looking for light which means an air leak is present.
4) Check the resistive values of the Thermistor. They correspond to specific Thermistor temperatures. Make certain when you are measuring the resistance and the temperature of the Thermistor at the same time and that you have not just assumed that it is that same temp that the fridge is at. They are seldom nor should they be the same. Use a multi-meter to check the resistance with the Thermistor unplugged and measure the Thermistor temperature with an aiming type IR thermometer. The resistive values for a respective temperature are published on the Norcold website in the online service manual. If they do not match then the Thermistor needs to be replaced. In that same manual, there is a section that shows you how to put the front display into a number of "diagnostic" modes. Here is another way to diagnose if the Thermistor is good. One of the diagnostic modes will tell you what the control thinks the Thermistor temperature is. If you measure the Thermistor at the same time and find that it is a different temperature than the control is displaying, then it is sending the wrong temperature data to the control and again the Thermistor needs to be replaced.
5) Make certain that when one cooling fan is running in the back that they are all on. There are three of them. One in the bottom blowing up and the other two in the top sucking up. They are all independently thermostatically controlled but are all rated to operate at the same temperature levels so they all should be running comparatively at the same time.
6) Look at the top of the heat exchanger chimney. There is supposed to be a spiral baffle clipped to it. That baffle is designed to slow down the hot air from escaping too rapidly which would lead to a reduction in the time the heated air has to boil the liquid ammonia in the heat exchanger portion of the cooling unit. This apparently is well known to have been omitted during the installation of the these fridges. While you are up there, make certain nothing is obstructing the airflow over the cooling coils . One of the biggest offenders has been found to be random pieces of fiberglass insulation that have either fallen off of a side wall or was just just left up there because someone was less than attentive to the task at hand during the construction process. (I know. Never happens at Keystone. Right?)
7) Visually check for leaks. If the gas is leaking you will smell ammonia or see the location of the leak by it having a yellowish stain in the area.
8) Make certain the propane flame kernel is not being obstructed or diverted. The problem arises with RVs that are stored for long periods of time in cold humid conditions. Rust can form on the inside of the flame chimney which can and very often does drop off the first time you bounce the unit down the road again. The rust particles or pieces can fall onto the burner and divert/block the flame all together. Vacuum the debris out if visualized.
9) Place additional air circulation fans in the fridge to keep the air moving. The one that Norcold puts in fridge is a good attempt but not adequate. Dometic makes one that is battery operated although for my Scottish blood it is too expensive. A couple of strategically placed 12V DC computer fans would be just as effective and the batteries would never die.
10) What seems to be of greatest importance and one of the first things I was asked by the tech was how full is the fridge? Lets look at some comparative numbers given the assumption that these fridges are very poor at recovery which we all known they are. If your fridge is 75% full of cool/frozen product then only 25% of the fridge's total volume is occupied by air and as such, only 25% of the fridge's volume pours out of the fridge in the form of "freely exchanged" air when you open the door. Accordingly, it then only has to re-cool 25% of that now warm exchanged air. By comparison, if you only have the fridge filled to 40% of it's capacity, then when you open the door 60% of that cool "free air" spills out and it then has to work far longer to re-cool that increased volume of warm air that has flowed in when the cool air left. Moral to this story is keep the fridge full and the product you have in the fridge will help to cool down what will be a reduced volume of exchanged free air each time you open the door.

The biggest take away thing for me was that the Tech came just short saying what I have long suspected to be true. This 1940s technology was implemented in RV fridges many years ago so that people could have a fridge and not have to rely on blocks of ice in an ice box. Fast forward to today and the fact of the matter is that the fridges are borderline too larger for the operational limitations of the technology.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:07 AM   #31
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In our Alpine we put up with the Norcold it came with for about a year and a half and finally "fixed" the problem. We yanked it out and installed a Whirlpool side by side residential fridge with ice maker in door. Love it!! We are on hookups 90% of the time anyways so what the heck. Now I can actually store ice cream in it and everything. We also have a good battery bank and inverter so no problem when travelling or the occasional booddock situation.
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:58 AM   #32
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So I am certain that I have figured out the challenges with our fridge.
First, I finally got my ladder out and removed the top fridge vent cover. Surprise! In the infinite wisdom of the Keystone not so much engineering Engineers, they decided to put a full width piece of aluminum sheeting on the bottom 1/3 of the upper fridge vent access. Net effect is that at least 33% of the available hot air escape pathway way eliminated. I can only presume that some brainiac decided to install that because of a rash of warranty claims most likely associated with people taking their RV to the car wash, spraying directly into that upper vent, soaking the components in the back that then generates a fault code and the fridge shuts down. I removed that sheet metal and guess what? The the fridge worked much better. Additionally, so as get maximum venting of hot air from the back I also installed three 4" high capacity, low DB 12V computer fans. I attached them to the front of the fins on the upper most cooling condenser and pointed them to blow outwards through the vent cover/grill . They are controlled by an electronic thermostat that is adjustable and has an LCD display to tell me what the temperature of the air back there is. I set the stat to have the fans turn on @ +30C. I was very surprised to find out that even with ambient outside air at only +15C, the air inside that rear compartment ran at +30 to +35C on 120V AC and increased up to +40 to +45C while running on LPG. Also, even with the fans blowing the hot air out of the upper vent area the temperatures shot a further +5 to +7C when I put the upper vent grill cover back on. I have long suspected the grill covers, that are the same size as our former Jayco TT with an 8 cubic ft fridge, are just not wide enough to adequately vent the heat developed by this size of fridge. I have seen other manufactures either put two narrower vent covers side by side or put a singe much wider grill cover on both the bottom and the top. With the fridges in the slide and as such their not being able to be vented directly out of the roof, this dual side wall venting compromise is just not effective enough for the fridges to work to their full potential. I wonder why Keystone has not yet "KEYED" in. Our fridge now runs at -12 to -16C and +1 to +3 respectively. Recovery time remains an undesirable aspect as does the duty cycle length but at least the fridge is now cooling appropriately.Though I would like to see the freezer section colder, I am pretty certain that this is as good as it's going to get. Good luck guys with resolving your fridge challenges. I hope my work arounds and diagnostics have been helpful.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:22 PM   #33
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Our last 5er had a double door Norcold that I also removed the piece of paneling they had covering 3/4 of the upper vent. The 1st thing I noticed were the coils were 6-8" below the lower end of the upper vent opening which made the exhaust portion about 14-18" above the coils & only about a 2 1/2 - 3" opening. Once the block removed the Norcold worked very well even in extreme ambient temperatures.
Right or wrong, bad or good engineering? Whatever, mine worked better after my modification.
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Old 06-23-2020, 06:48 AM   #34
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I found the same issue in our 2020 Montana 3760FL. The Norcold fridge and freezer worked well when we first turned it on and left it running, on AC, at home. Once we got it into it's spot at our seasonal site, the freezer seemed to be struggling - anything frozen stayed solid, anything new that went in wouldn't freeze hard, even ice cubes. Pulled the outside top cover and discovered the same thing, full width sheet of aluminum covering the bottom half of the vent opening. I moved it down so that it's flush with the bottom but also discovered the deflector installed on top of the fridge was very poorly installed. Install specs say it needs to be within 1/2" of the top of the fridge and angled out to the top of the vent opening. This is to deflect the excess heat from sitting in on top of the fridge. The deflector was at least 1 1/2" above the middle of the fridge and ended above the vent opening. I pulled this out too and re-shaped it to sit tight to the top of the fridge as close to the back edge as possible and tapered it so that it stops right at the top edge of the vent. Have noticed a big improvement in the overall cooling, but still struggling to freeze ice, although the meat that we've put in is now actually freezing again. I haven't experimented with air temps inside the fridge/freezer, so i'm not sure what they're sitting at.
And, also noticed the same thing with the left hand door flap, was sticking on the inside bottom of the fridge and not closing properly, but i addressed that pretty quickly.
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Old 07-06-2020, 10:52 AM   #35
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OK everyone, here is the real story. Though I am not endorsing his company finally someone who is being honest and truthful.
Here is my Email string with JC Refrigeration.
My take away thing is that for those of us that are not "YET" experiencing challenges it is just a matter of when not if.

Good morning, yes we do hear your story a lot, long story short is they increased the heat on the LP burner from 2100BTUs to 3000 BTUs and then went from a 450W to 650W on the heaters and yet the unit is practically the same size unit they us eon there normal 10 cuft size, and so what they have developed is a kid trying to do a mans job. Which works half decent in your 60s and 70s but once you get above that it cannot work as it should because of the het buildup

So we took the BTUs down again and built a unit that will perform double the capacity then what the one in there now does, the results are it will keep up in any types of weather conditions, you can try Norcolds extended warranty but my guess is you will be back to what all the other people are back to and that is changing out the cooling system or the complete fridge

See attachments

JR Lambright
JC Refrigeration LLC / DutchAire Hvac LLC
6495 W 200 N
Shipshewana IN 46565
260-768-4067/ [email protected] www.jc-refrigeration.com

Open Monday – Thursday/ 8am-3pm
Friday/ 10am-2pm we are closed June the 29th thru July 5th

“ Little by Little life goes by,
Short if you sing but
Long if you sigh”





-----Original Message-----
From: David Dubbin <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: New Message From JC Refrigeration - Get In Touch

Name: David Dubbin
Phone: 1-403-6501597
Email: [email protected]
State: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Message: I won't bore you with yet another story of absolutely inadequate levels of standard performance from our Norcold 2118 fridge in our new 2019 Montana 3790. We are very experienced RVs with some 40 yrs under our belt with this new RV being our tenth in that time frame. Our ambient daytime temps have only very seldom reached up to 75F and yet our fridge struggles to keep up and runs on average 20+ hours a day. It's absolutely disgraceful that both the manufacturers of these trailers and the fridge itself feel that that performance is acceptable. The blogs are filled with folks trying to engineer work arounds to get the fridges to improve performance. I have done them all. Extra fans in the back. Four extra circulation fans in the fridge section. Three more in the back to aid with the evac of hot air in the rear cavity. Temps are better but still not reliably acceptable and the run cylce frequency is nuts and again we have not hit summer day time temps above 80F.
I can honestly see a class action lawsuit on the horizon.
I am very interested in your retro fit. What I am going to wait for is to see if Norcold accepts my application for an extended warranty. If they don't then we will be talking. We have just owned this coach for three months and there is no way that I am going to play this game for years to come.
My opinion is that these fridges are just too big for the 50+ year old gas absorption type of technology!
Question.
What are the "total" shipping costs for the unit that we would need to be shipped to Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T1Y 6M9?

Please keep in mind that I will be buying with the Canadian dollar that as of today is worth only $.60 compared to a USD. That adds about a extra $450.00 cost to your unit before it leaves your shop.
What is the operation current draw of the compressor and on average, how many hours a day should it run once the fridge is pulled down to temp and the ambient air temps are say 70F? I know it's like asking how long is a piece of string but I am certain you have a basic idea or why would you have even started the business. What makes the compressor so much more efficient then say what was available 20 years ago. Or is not as much about an increased efficiency but more about the fact that the compressor motors are 12-24V DC where as in the past they just did not exist. Additionally, what is your position with reference to how robust the entire unit is considering that Rv's are essentially rolling earth quakes going down the road. What have you engineered into your product to address that sort of environment? I am very interested in hearing from you. Thanks so much.


2118 Norcold


#1 the new cooling unit option:
Converts your existing fridge to a residential fridge, (which eliminates your Lp gas and ammonia absorption system) this cooling unit is built with a compressor system and not only do you get to keep your same fridge and controls you are used to but there is no need to remove the windshield, door or window to get the old fridge out and the new in -nor the hassle of cutting or redoing the cabinets to make a new fridge fit. There is also no need to have your coach level anymore for the fridge, since this unit will have a compressor. It pulls .8 Amp 96.4W on AC 650% less than what a normal residential fridge will pull - or 375% less than your existing gas/elect unit. And will run off a 1000W inverter (does not require pure sign wave). Or we can also do a DC 12V Compressor off the 12V wires behind the fridge with a 7.5A draw. This cooling unit is designed to withstand hot humid temps and will keep your ice-cream hard with 70% faster cooling. This unit comes with a 3-year warranty with the option for an additional 3 years for $125, it is very user friendly to work on in the field should it need it down the road. We can ship to you on a pallet (LTL) $185 to a place of business or $250 to a resident or $170 to the nearest terminal…… place your order or schedule an install appointment off our website (2118 Hvac 12V) https://jc-refrigeration.com/product...dc-conversion/
(2118 Hvac 120V) https://jc-refrigeration.com/product...118-hvac-120v/
or call 260-768-4067
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:47 PM   #36
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Why not just do like we did and swap it for a residential?
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Old 07-06-2020, 05:22 PM   #37
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Residential release their heat inside and we also dry camp where a residential fridge will draw a lot of current as I would have to run my inverter full time to power it. A 12 Volt compressor just makes more sense for us
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Old 07-07-2020, 04:21 AM   #38
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Residential release their heat inside and we also dry camp where a residential fridge will draw a lot of current as I would have to run my inverter full time to power it. A 12 Volt compressor just makes more sense for us
I built a custom refer/freezer on our boat with a 12 V compressor. It was our biggest power draw. We used around 100 amp hours per day when anchored out. You have to be able to replace those amp hours. I had a 140 amp alternator with smart regulator on the starboard engine and a Heart inverter with 75 amp charger for when on shore power. Battery bank was 780 amp hours created with 6 260 amp hr 6V batteries. Moving every 3 days and running for a few hours would get me back to 85% charged. Long run days I could get it all back.

I created this spread sheet a few years back. Chris
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:43 AM   #39
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We have 920 watts of solar on our roof and 325 amp hours of reserve capacity in our battery bank. The reason I am considering going down the 12V route is both for the energy efficiency/reduction and the increase in operational effectiveness. With the present design that Norcold employed they have simply added a lower gear to the transmission of the vehicle expecting that vehicle to tow a heavier load up the same steep hill that it knows the vehicle could not tow up with the original gear set. The true and most required fix is to put a more powerful engine in the vehicle or use a different vehicle so that it is not having to work as hard to pull the load. The going to a residential fridge would be even more electrical draw with less percentage of that same electricity going to running the fridge's compressor because of power loss experienced through the inverter. We also have a 4KW Pure Sine Wave invertor. The take away thing from JC- Refrigeration for me was how Norcold primarily just increased the power consumption of the cooling unit as a design fix rather than putting a larger and more capable cooling unit in the fridge. A comparively same unit as in their 10 cuft fridge is just nuts when the 2118 is 80% larger. Put a lower gear into a Volkswagon Beetle expecting it to pull 10K lbs load up a hill is just stupid. Norcold never should used a Beetle to do the work of an F450. Just my opinion of course but the fact remains that the fridge is simply not up to the task in it's present configuration and that lack of capability is born solely by Norcold and Keystone.
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:23 AM   #40
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that lack of capability is born solely by Norcold and Keystone.
I have the same 2118 is a Heartland product. RV manufacturers were sold a bill of goods by Norcold.
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