Outside kitchen - electrical

[beachbum]

I need some advice on my new TT.

I have a 2013 Bullet Premier 31bhpr. Almost all my camping is done on the beach. The mini refrigerator is 110v only. After researching, it appears that an inverter set up will require a serious battery bank.

As an alternative, i was thinking of purchasing a DC only refrigerator.

1) DC refrigerator specs reflect a draw of 2.5 amps. Is the draw 2.5 x 24 hours= 60 amp hours per day?

or can i consider that the compressor will run about 1/3 of the day so 2.5 x 8 hours= 20 amp hours per day?

2) The outside kitchen has 110v plugs for the refrigerator and the TV. Can this wiring be changed to a DC set up by changing its location in the power distribution panel or do i need to rewire the entire set up?

I don't have an electrical background (obviously). Thanks for any tips.

Joe

[Festus2]

Joe -
I just checked out the results of testing that was done on 7 -12v fridges and they are quite varied regarding current draw. The current draw (aH) over a 24 hr period ranged from 4A - 14A. The current draw per hour ranged from .16A to .59A.

Not sure what kind of 12v fridge you were looking at but I didn't see any figures indicating that kind of low amp draw (2.5).

If you are planning to get and use a 12v fridge, you still require a battery source for it to operate. Are you planning to use your RV battery system in some way? If you are dry camping at the beach and have a 12v fridge running off your house battery(ies), it will require charging or it will soon discharge. How do you plan on keeping it charged? Do you have a generator or solar panel?

The fridge in your RV operates on 110v and propane. Why not turn your RV fridge to propane and use that while at the beach? It will require a small amount of 12v to operate even on propane however.

It seems that if you want to run extra things like a 12v fridge, you need to figure out a way to keep your batteries charged.

[planesnut]

You may want to consider a small generator if your not going to run the AC. I have 2 Yamaha 2000's which run everything in the trailer just fine.

[beachbum]

i was looking at 12v refrigerator made by Engel. The spec of 2.5 amps is listed in the description.

http://www.12volt-travel.com/truck-r...v-p-11930.html

I definitely want to wire into my existing setup.

My TT has the stock 24 series battery. If i can convert the outside kitchen i would upgrade the battery bank to (2) 6volt Trojans (about 225 amp hours). I also have a Yamaha 2400is that i can use to keep some juice in them.

I want to use the outside fridge for adult beverages, water, juice boxes etc. This will hopefully eliminate some of the foot traffic (and sand) being tracked into the coach.

The inside fridge would run on propane and would be used for food. It's only 6 cu.ft so I want to get the outside unit operational.

[JRTJH]

I looked at the website you posted. It appears that the 12VDC refrigerator/freezer you are interested in is approximately a 2 cuft refrigerator with about 4 inches of the top part taken up by freezer space. That would leave roughly enough space to store 36 cans of beverage and a couple of ice cube trays. I'm not sure that for many campers, trading a 6 cuft 110AC refrigerator for one that is 1/3 the size is a cost effective and functional exchange. As for converting your group 24 12 VDC battery for a 6 VDC bank, you'll gain a tremendous reserve capacity, however without knowing what tow vehicle you have, the added tongue weight may increase your tow weights above what you need to maintain. Depending on the electrical useage you have in the remainder of the trailer, you still may not be able to get 24 hours of service even with the 6 VDC conversion.

It may sound like a good idea, but by the time you construct a cabinet to install the new and significantly smaller refrigerator, redo the battery source and purchase a generator to recharge batteries, you may find that it's not really as functional as you'd hoped it would be. I'd do a lot of thinking about this one before investing the money for such a small refrigerator.

[beachbum]

Thanks for replying.

I want to keep both refrigerators. The inside refrigerator is 6 cu and will run on propane. The outside DC refrigerator is for extra space for drinks.

I posted the link to show the amps drawn.

I already own a generator.

My original questions were:

1) DC refrigerator specs reflect a draw of 2.5 amps. Is the draw 2.5 x 24 hours= 60 amp hours per day?

or can i consider that the compressor will run about 1/3 of the day so 2.5 x 8 hours= 20 amp hours per day?

2) The outside kitchen has 110v plugs for the refrigerator and the TV. Can this wiring be changed to a DC set up by changing its location in the power distribution panel or do i need to rewire the entire set up?

sorry for the confusion.

[Bob Landry]

The fridge you are looking at is a a Norcold DE-0041 with a different badge on it. It uses a japanese compressor system, which since the switchover to R134a refrigerant, has had less than stellar reliability. I havn't seen one yet, but I'm told by one of my distributors that Norcold is finally switching over to the Danfoss compressor systems, which is the system used by everyone else out there that I'm aware of, Tundra, Vitrifrigo, Waeco, Adler Barbour, Nova Kool, and Isotherm. The Danfoss system is very reliable and if you are going to be using a generator anyway to charge batteries, I would seriously consider one of those models. In 15 year of doing marine work, I can count on one hand the number of Danfoss compressors that I have replaced. Actually, I like Norcold because I make a lot of money off of them.

The issue I have with any of the Norcold products is that if anything in the refrigerant circuit fails, nothing is replaceable, and if you develop a leak and it is repairable, Norcold will not tell you how much charge to put back into it. They are basically disposable units, as you can buy a new box for the price of a cooling unit and the labor to replace it.

The power consumption estimates that you have read are probably accurate. That number is for actual running time, and depending on how often the door is opened, the condition of door seals, and how well you keep it defrosted, you can figure on about a 50% duty cycle.

All of the units that we're talking about here have AC/DC capabilities, so why not use it? If you have a spare fuse on your converter, run wire from that to the outdoor kitchen, using the correct size wire for the distance and amp draw. Your converter is probably on the same side of the trailer as the outdoor kitchen, so running the wires through the cabinetry should be simple. If both sources are available, it will default to 110V and with to 12VDC automatically when needed.

[beachbum]

Thanks for the good advice Bob. I will check out refrigerators made by the mfg that you recommend. Unfortunately, the inside refrigerator is a Norcold. I'll have to cross my fingers.

I have read posts about some low cost DC units can only cool to 40 degrees below ambient temperature. Is that accurate?

[Bob Landry]

Don't worry about the inside fridge. It's a gas absorption and that's a totally different system.

[beachbum]

I pulled trigger on this model which is ac/dc and 4.6 cu ft. It has the Danfoss compressor. We were dry camping, but the outside temps were cold so power consumption was nominal. The specs of the fridge claim about 30amp hours per day on a 72 degree day. I set on the coldest setting and it froze the water on the top shelf. I'll report back after dry camping in some hot summer weather.

[diugo]

Thanks for the info. I don't expect my absorption fridge to last forever, so when it goes, I'll seriously look into a compressor model. 30Ah/day is really reasonable, especially if you consider the typical RV fridge uses 10Ah/day even in propane mode.

[JRTJH]

The refrigerators listed in the link are about 42 quart and 60 quart sizes. That's about 1/3 the size of your 6cuft absorption reefer. They are somewhat energy efficient, but significantly smaller than what is standard build in most RV's being manufactured today.

[Stublejumper]

I as well do a lot of dry camping ,I use the 110 vac fridge when we have power ( not often) when dry camping I bought a 3 way absorption cooler,110 volt at home,switch to 12 vdc during travel and propane a long as I need. Works great to keep 58 cool ones..

[beachbum]

We were having a party at home so as a test I turned on the new dc fridge to keep some extra beverages cold. The camper was not plugged in so it was running off the Duracell 6 volts (215 amp hour).

48 hours later with temps in the upper 80's my battery meter reads 2/3rds.

In theory in should run another 2 days before dropping to a 1/3.

I think the specs on the isotherm cruise 130 are pretty accurate.

[beachbum]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The refrigerators listed in the link are about 42 quart and 60 quart sizes. That's about 1/3 the size of your 6cuft absorption reefer. They are somewhat energy efficient, but significantly smaller than what is standard build in most RV's being manufactured today.

I posted that link at the very beginning of my search. i got some good advice on this forum and found a model twice as big (4.2 cuft) with double the efficiency.

and twice as expensive ($1099)


Isotherm Cruise 130

[beachbum]

http://www.isotherm-parts.com/index....e63d71d0ee7936

i wanted to include in the previous post. They honored a price match against West Marine.