RV Park Power Issues

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by hlh1

Hi John, Unless I've stated otherwise in this thread I'm reading the VAC and Amps off of the EMS. I'll do as you suggest and measure the 120 VAC outlet at the pedestal when I get a chance and let you know.


Well darn, there is no 120 VAC outlet on this pedestal. Only the 30 amp outlet.

That alone is a clear indication of either a very, very old installation or a "hack job" install that was done.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by hlh1

Hi John, Unless I've stated otherwise in this thread I'm reading the VAC and Amps off of the EMS. I'll do as you suggest and measure the 120 VAC outlet at the pedestal when I get a chance and let you know.


Well darn, there is no 120 VAC outlet on this pedestal. Only the 30 amp outlet.

It does sound like an old place. Out of curiousity; are the RV sites placed so that each RV has their back to each other with front doors facing each other or front door facing the back of the next trailer? I ask because I've been in a few "RV" parks that were actually "mobile home" parks in the past and then converted to "RV" sites leaving people back to back/face to face. Most of those are old, some very old, and some have been "home modified" extensively for RVs.

[jasin1]

i’m wondering if they converted some of the sights to 30 amp and used a multi wired branch circuit with a shared neutral…if it’s a balanced load between you and your neighbor i’d think the voltage drop may be different then if your neighbor site is empty or the people are using minimal amperage items…or if one leg of that circuit has many sites using high amps and the other not so much…an unbalanced load like what was proposed earlier in the thread i believe…if you have ten 50 amp camping sites in a row and you take one of the 50 amp sites and run one of the legs of the 50 amp to a newly created site,you end up with 11 sites in a row…nine at 50 amps and two at 30

[hlh1]

The RV sites are all side by side. Everyone backs in.

[Berdan]

It is longshot and likely not the problem but this could happen also if you had a problem with a connection in your power cord between the pedestal and your TT. Just to be sure you could load up the with AC and water heater and measure the voltage at the pedestal to confirm that it has dropped to at or near 108 Volts. If the voltage at the pedestal has not also dropped to around 108 V then the problem would be in the power cord. I would double check this before playing hardball with the campground :-)

[rhagfo]

Just a question how long is your power cord?

[hlh1]

I think the cord is 25 feet. When I get home I can make the pedistal voltage measurement.

[Ibdagriz]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

The OP has a 30 amp rig, if he connects today 50 amp outlet, the 50 to 30 amp dog bone will only deliver power from one leg of the 50 amp.

Am I wrong or aren't the two legs of the 50 amp plug 50 amps each? Seems that would get you at least the full 30 or more amps to the trailer.
That's how I understand it anyway.

Griz

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Ibdagriz

Am I wrong or aren't the two legs of the 50 amp plug 50 amps each? Seems that would get you at least the full 30 or more amps to the trailer.
That's how I understand it anyway.

Griz

As I understand the OP's situation, he is connected to a campground pedestal that ONLY has a single 30 amp outlet (only one leg of power). He gets 118 volts with no load which drops to 108 volts with a 15 amp load. He thought it was due to heavy camper usage and that the problem would resolve when the Labor Day crowd left. It did not resolve. He considered requesting a 50 amp campsite, but as of yet, has not moved to a different campsite. He reset his EMS and it showed 126 VAC and 0 amps. He turned on the AC and it dropped to 115 VAC at 15 amps. Added the hot water heater, fridge, and the EMS showed 108 at 27 amps.

The OP has not been able to measure the input voltage AT THE SHORE POWER PLUG WHEN UNDER A LOAD, as there is no way to do that without unplugging the shore power cord (removing the load) or disassembling the pedestal box. He is not able to give us the "voltage at the pedestal when under load".

As I understand it, he is at a "older campground" on Hatteras Island, a part of the outer banks islands. From what I can see, that campground was "built around a couple of houses" and apparently is being used as an income source for the home owners.

There are numerous "campground reviews" about this campground and the owners. A portion of those reviews complain of "old infrastructure", arrogant owner relations, refusal to discuss issues or work with campers on problems they identify.

I'd suspect that the campground electrical grid is either having problems that could be corrected with a proper troubleshooting assessment or is simply overloaded. The OP indicated that when he approached campground management with the problem, he more or less got a cold shoulder with no resolution.

At this point, it looks to me like there's a problem with the electrical service, the campground isn't interested in fixing it or even checking it out, and the OP wants to stay there despite this problem, because it's otherwise a nice place to park. So, the choice becomes, leave to get better electrical service or stay because of the nice location.....

Glad I'm not making the decision, protecting my equipment is far more important to me than having a desirable place to park in a very popular resort area.

[Ibdagriz]

I totally got that part of it being an older park and I was thinking it might solve his problem if he moved to a 50 amp service site as he might get the full 30 amps.

We had to have the pedestal repaired at a park in Rockport before as the 50 amp was not working. We were able to run on the 30 amp side for the day until it was fixed and all good.

I'd move myself to avoid any issues with my equipment.

Griz

[hlh1]

NEWS FLASH: I'm not the only one with voltage/power issues. Five campers around me complained after I did and have moved from this end of the campground. The person who does the electrical work told them "I can't wait until winter so we can fix this". Sounds like the electrician has known about the issue. So after I complained the flood of other complaints could not be ignored. I'm guessing my EMS and TT electrical system are fine as I've had not issues outside of this campground.

[hlh1]

I received a call from the campground today apologizing for my power problems and refunding one day of my stay.

[Hyseas]

I have to confess that when scanning the responses to the OP, I don’t see any actual help with solutions. The issue that the OP is experiencing is not uncommon. As you spend time visiting the beautiful campgrounds across the US, maintaining voltage with a 30A system is going to be a challenge at some sites.

The best answer I’ve found so far is a Hughes Autoformer. It plugs in between the pedestal and the RV and actually boosts the voltage to the RV. A typical EMS does NOT do this. So if you want to actually solve the issue, look up the Hughes Autoformer and decide for yourself.

[Shedboy]

LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY



1. Assuming the utility company is supplying a constant voltage to the RV park:
2. The missing voltage is going somewhere between the utility company power lines and the RVs. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another.
3. The missing voltage is being converted to heat energy somewhere (loose connections, wire gauge too small, parasitic loss through a ground loop).
4. Check if the RV office has fire extinguisher and overhead sprinklers!
5. Don't park near the RV Park electrical distribution facility.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Hyseas

I have to confess that when scanning the responses to the OP, I don’t see any actual help with solutions. The issue that the OP is experiencing is not uncommon. As you spend time visiting the beautiful campgrounds across the US, maintaining voltage with a 30A system is going to be a challenge at some sites.

The best answer I’ve found so far is a Hughes Autoformer. It plugs in between the pedestal and the RV and actually boosts the voltage to the RV. A typical EMS does NOT do this. So if you want to actually solve the issue, look up the Hughes Autoformer and decide for yourself.

I owned and use an auto autoformer on my 30 Amp trailer. In the OP's situation it would make the issue worse as far as the amperage issue is concerned. OHM's law states a very simple equation. Amps=Vonts x Watts. In order to keep the equation balanced if the volts drop the amps raise. The Autoformer is a transformer with multiple windings that can engage the winding to boost the voltage. That boost comes at the expense of MORE amps being used as the watts ( load) remains constant. This is discussed in the literature that comes with the Autoformer and on the Hughes website.

[LHaven]

The TL;DR on that explanation is that the Autoformer will keep his voltage constant, but will blow his pedestal breaker at full load because full load will now draw more than 30A.

[Ddaddyo]

"I've had this problem before at this park"
Why go back???
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Hyseas

I have to confess that when scanning the responses to the OP, I don’t see any actual help with solutions. The issue that the OP is experiencing is not uncommon. As you spend time visiting the beautiful campgrounds across the US, maintaining voltage with a 30A system is going to be a challenge at some sites.

The best answer I’ve found so far is a Hughes Autoformer. It plugs in between the pedestal and the RV and actually boosts the voltage to the RV. A typical EMS does NOT do this. So if you want to actually solve the issue, look up the Hughes Autoformer and decide for yourself.

First, my oldest daughter and 3 kids & hubby live in Winchester; kind of a nice place that is getting a bit big but ain't they all? Second, I told the guy to pack up and find another park and not attempt to keep trying to get that park with bad power to take action. He stated he liked the park and decided to stick it out. I told him to write a review on campgroundreviews.com that the power at that park was iffy. Since Sept. 10th I have had 11,781 or my reviews read by other campers. I know people look at reviews on that site.

I suggest that there is no "technical" fix for bad park power by a camper. The OP indicated that the park didn't seem overly concerned so moving was the best I could suggest and warning other campers of potential power problems at a park is the most proactive thing a camper can do. How would you have expected the OP's concerns to be addressed?

[solv3nt]

There park has a voltage drop issue. As load increases, voltage decreases; Voltage = Current * Resistance.

The breakers in the camper are likely thermal magnetic. Thermal magnetic breakers use two elements for short time and long time trips.

Short time trips are short circuit, or instantaneous current. The short time trip uses the magnetic element to trip.a short circuit condition will spike the current and will trip within a few cycles, one cycle is 1/60th of a second on a 60hz system. If you have a large motor load, or if you are cranking along with a heavy load, you can start a motor and the breaker will trip.

Long time trip is overload and issues the thermal element of the breaker. If you review the trip curve of many low voltage thermal magnetic breakers, you can often times run 200% of the breaker rating as it requires heat to trip. If you're running space heaters, you can definitely operate over the breaker rating.

[Shedboy]

Auto-former won't do the job -


1. Autoformer output varies proportionally to input, as the input voltage varies, so does the output voltage. If the autoformer is set up when the line voltage is low a sudden rise in line voltage (all the other RVs leave the park) the autoformer will amplify the increased voltage to the remaining RV, an undesirable situation.



There may be some other name rather than "autoformer" for an ACTIVE device (a device that consumes energy) that would keep the output voltage constant but the energy (WATTS) in the system remains constant, (law of conservation of energy) e.i. the current (amps) would decrease.

Off into the weeds - keep in mind that in AC circuits there is a forth attribute, POWER FACTOR, that is in play. Unlikely in this case but again, nothing can be done at the RV space other than alternative power source.

2. Correct Ohms Law for current is Amps (current) = Watts (power) / (divided by) E (voltage), I=W/E
3. Because the deficiency occurs for multiple RV spaces, the problem is likely to be upstream of any one RV pedestal.
4. Because the Park technician can't wait for the season to be over to repair the problem indicates the problem is in-between the utility company power lines and the pedestals (RV Park electrical distribution panels or possible ground loop). Nothing can repair the problem at the RV space other than employing an alternative power source - generator, solar panels or wind turbine.
5. Beware of a potential (unlikely) safety issue, the possibility of a ground loop condition associated with the neutral (green) wire. Measure the AC voltage between the RV frame and the pedestal metal utility box. It should be zero. A remedy to this possible condition would be to ground the RV frame to a metal RV Park water pipe using a battery jumper cable. This condition is unlikely because the problem seems to be associated with several RV spaces. Again, the problem seems to be upstream of the pedestals.