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Old 03-23-2022, 06:33 AM   #1
Danamay
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Unhappy Poor Construction 2022 Premier

Huge hole in roof from one side to the other. Dealer tried to conceal it or did not inspect like i paid them to do. Dealer wont engage, getting run around by Keystone. Time to lawyer up. This is not lemon law, it is fraud! Found it 2 weeks after delivery.
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Old 03-23-2022, 06:47 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Danamay View Post
Huge hole in roof from one side to the other. Dealer tried to conceal it or did not inspect like i paid them to do. Dealer wont engage, getting run around by Keystone. Time to lawyer up. This is not lemon law, it is fraud! Found it 2 weeks after delivery.
First, welcome to the group. Since the original post you are on is almost 10 years old, I wouldn’t associate their issues with yours. Im a little confused when you say huge hole extending entire width of the roof, some pics would help. As for dealer not engaging, it’s a 2022 and under warranty, not sure why the dealer wouldn’t be working this issue for you unless they’re saying you caused it. A lawyer may be helpful, but keep in mind that if you contact a lawyer, you will most likely cut off all communication with the dealer and Keystone and prolong repairs. Then the warranty will run out and your lawyer will have to fight that battle as well. How much would you pay a lawyer vs cost of repairs? Is there another dealer in your area that could assist with a warranty claim?
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Old 03-23-2022, 07:02 AM   #3
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New thread started and posts related to this topic moved to this thread.
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Old 03-23-2022, 07:32 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Danamay View Post
Huge hole in roof from one side to the other. Dealer tried to conceal it or did not inspect like i paid them to do. Dealer wont engage, getting run around by Keystone. Time to lawyer up. This is not lemon law, it is fraud! Found it 2 weeks after delivery.
If your approach with the dealer and Keystone was similar to this post then I understand why they won't engage. I'm guessing the dealer, like Keystone, has attorneys on retainer and have been instructed to refer a customer that "lawyers up" to them and cease all interactions. I understand your frustration, just saying that threatening legal representation can be conter productive.

If you can post a picture it would help folks understand the scope of the issue. A "Huge hole in roof from one side to other." sounds like you can walkk in the camper, look up, and see the sky from one exterior wall to the opposite exterior wall. Posting the complete model number will also help as "Premier" is a model line like Chevy or Buick.
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Old 03-23-2022, 08:25 AM   #5
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I think you need to add a lot of specifics for your post to mean much. Like Marshall, from your description sounds like you have a swath of roof missing in some form with the sunlight streaming in which is not likely. The exact damage and circumstances are mandatory for anyone to even guess what is going on.

What did you "pay" the dealer to do as far as an inspection? I've never "paid" a dealer to inspect a new trailer so ?? What was the expectation/guideline you gave them and who was it made with? Was it in writing?

If you're first words were "lawyer", or of you have made the threat I'm afraid you are going to have a long row to hoe as you will be "hands off" while the legal system grinds you up....and empties your wallet. You need to know ALL the circumstances around your dilemma, what may or may not have caused it (by someone knowledgeable), what it would take to fix it properly and who is responsible. If you know those things and present them in the proper way to the proper folks your chances of getting the situation resolved in your favor in a timely manner is FAR more likely to happen than if you just start making legal threats.
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Old 03-23-2022, 08:32 AM   #6
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New thread started and posts related to this topic moved to this thread.
This is done to confuse the unwashed! I am going to lawyer up and sue somebody! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Lawyering up ALWAYS wins! I would sure love to see a pic of this "huge hole".....
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Old 03-23-2022, 08:41 AM   #7
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Hello Danamay and welcome to the forum.
What Danny, Marshall, & bSmith have all said.
Please Identify model of Premier as well as some pictures if you can.

A huge hole is a warranty issue and dealer/keystone will help but you would need to supply much more specific information if you are really wanting some advise from the forum. There is some great advice available here from a lot of folks who have been through it.

Good luck.
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Old 03-23-2022, 09:04 AM   #8
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From that one paragraph introductory I don’t think I’d want to engage any further either.

Maybe when you meet people for the first time you can start slower …introduce yourself…explain your predicament and ask for some advice.

When you take every interaction to the nuclear level it can be somewhat …off-putting.

Welcome and hope you get it sorted out…take a deep breath and see if the forum can offer sound advice
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Old 03-23-2022, 07:33 PM   #9
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Well if memory serves me right, I recall the Pope visiting different countries and he had a Pope-mobile to travel in, so he could wave at people but it also afforded him protection.

It was a special automobile.

Maybe this trailer was going to be a Pope trailer?

Ya know, er, all holy

Sorry, the devil made me do it.
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Old 03-24-2022, 03:10 AM   #10
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Inspect your roofs yourself!

I don't think I've every posted this, but to be honest I was as mad as the OPer during the ownership of my first trailer. The short version of the story is that on midway on a short 6-7 day trip I had to go on the roof of my trailer for something and found a half dozen pulls with holes. The holes were the size of dime to a quarter but the pulls gave you a clear pattern that the trailer was dragged under "something" from curb to drivers side. I had some tape and made a temporary repairs and then dwelled on it for 2 days...consumed me as there was not one situation where we even "had to be careful" with clearances during the trip. It had to happen on the trip since I always end a trip with a wash and a roof inspection...which happened 2 months ago and it couldn't have happened as the trailer sat at the dealer for 3-4 weeks waiting for a repair just before the trip!


As we were at our finals stop and I looked up at the roof it dawned on me, how could the fridge vent cap have survived this? Up on the roof again, that is where I discovered that it was cracked at the point of impact with scrape marks of whatever was dragged across the roof...BUT they were going in the wrong direction. Removing the silicone "plugs" and looking at the screws...3 where old/matching and one new/not matching. Someone 'fixed' the situation by reversing the vent cap so that the damage could not be viewed from the ground. Well that sure didn't happen in my driveway!


The difference is I had a few days of blaming myself to calm down and a beer with the guy in the site next to me as my initial reaction probably was not pretty! In the end, I had a private meeting with the GM of the dealer with pictures and everything ended up good. However, before I drop the trailer my protocol is a 90-120 second video of the exterior including the roof and an inspection upon pickup.
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Old 03-24-2022, 04:36 AM   #11
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Jay, You mention "pulls" on your camper's roof. What are you referring to?
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Old 03-24-2022, 05:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by jxnbbl View Post
I don't think I've every posted this, but to be honest I was as mad as the OPer during the ownership of my first trailer. The short version of the story is that on midway on a short 6-7 day trip I had to go on the roof of my trailer for something and found a half dozen pulls with holes. The holes were the size of dime to a quarter but the pulls gave you a clear pattern that the trailer was dragged under "something" from curb to drivers side. I had some tape and made a temporary repairs and then dwelled on it for 2 days...consumed me as there was not one situation where we even "had to be careful" with clearances during the trip. It had to happen on the trip since I always end a trip with a wash and a roof inspection...which happened 2 months ago and it couldn't have happened as the trailer sat at the dealer for 3-4 weeks waiting for a repair just before the trip!


As we were at our finals stop and I looked up at the roof it dawned on me, how could the fridge vent cap have survived this? Up on the roof again, that is where I discovered that it was cracked at the point of impact with scrape marks of whatever was dragged across the roof...BUT they were going in the wrong direction. Removing the silicone "plugs" and looking at the screws...3 where old/matching and one new/not matching. Someone 'fixed' the situation by reversing the vent cap so that the damage could not be viewed from the ground. Well that sure didn't happen in my driveway!


The difference is I had a few days of blaming myself to calm down and a beer with the guy in the site next to me as my initial reaction probably was not pretty! In the end, I had a private meeting with the GM of the dealer with pictures and everything ended up good. However, before I drop the trailer my protocol is a 90-120 second video of the exterior including the roof and an inspection upon pickup.
Your experience matches several of mine. As I told the GM at my dealership (and anyone else that will listen), I've never (not once) taken my RV in and left it that something wasn't damaged. I even left one once for about 3 weeks and when I went to get it one end of the vertical awning mount was bent in right in the middle with a scrape down the side of the trailer. I saw it as I went to get it then got the SM and showed him. He said "it was like that when you brought it in wasn't it" and I told him of course not. From that point on I always made the person that checked in the trailer take their little inspection sheet with them and go around the trailer with me. When complete I make sure they write "no damage at check in" on the page and it goes in my file. That has saved me a couple of arguments along the way. Oh, and that bent awning arm? They replaced the entire awning. Seems a porter finally fessed up (after a helper helped him remember with the SM/GM) that the back of a trailer he was shoving in next to mine clipped the side of my trailer.... That guy seemed to have a problem with drugs and doesn't move trailers, or work there, any longer.
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Old 03-24-2022, 05:37 AM   #13
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I may be wrong, but most RV-camping forums do not permit discussions of problems once a law suit is engaged. Just the fact you are adamant on lawyering-up may prevent you from discussing your problem on any public forum. It's just the nature of the beast.

I do understand frustration though! It's quite obvious you were not prepared to step into this very strange world of RV ownership. It's a totally different animal than anything you've ever done business with. RV are their own animal for sure. They are not on the same level as automobiles. They are not on the same level as buying property or houses, or renting apartments. Most of the rules that apply to automobiles, houses, and property do not work for RV's.

It's a learning curve, and one that's hard to understand and even harder to accept. But threats go no where in this business.

One more thing... lawyers cost a LOT of money. Some 13 years ago we needed one. Back then, the cost was $250 an hour for their service. That included travel time, waiting time at the court house, and all the work they did. Every Email sent to them cost us 1/4 hour. Every reply cost us 1/4 hour. It didn't take long, with the opposition submitting continuances after continuances and being a no-show after no-show at the court date. In the end, it cost us over $15,000 for JUST lawyer fees before we gave up and realized no matter what we tried, the cost of the JUST the lawyer, not to mention the amount we were suing over, would NEVER, EVER actually be collected. We won the judgment, and we ended up never collecting a penny. But, we still had to pay the lawyer.

I'm sure, lawyer fees are much higher than that now. Is it really worth it to "Lawyer-Up?"
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Old 03-24-2022, 06:56 AM   #14
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Let me add my take if I may, it's a true story and still active.

My new trailer SOMEHOW got suspension issues.
So much so a concerned motorist behind me flagged me down.
The world seemed right to me, and I would have kept pulling my trailer to the moon.

With COVID and labor issues, it took over half a year to get my trailer into the dealer schedule.

People looked casually at my axles, etc, I posted pictures, had a chain store look when I "upgraded" my tires, no one saw any abnormalities.

It only showed when being pulled through turns.

When I hear from the dealer everything was shot under my trailer, I was floored....HOW, WHY?

The first explanation was that it was probably over-loaded.

NO WAY.

Then the mechanic upon deeper investigating saw that a part had failed, sorry, I don't know exactly which one, but it caused the suspension to fail and bent my axles.

My wife was adamant about the extended warranty when we bought it, so it might be covered....and we went around with that.
Their adjuster said yes the part failed, and they would cover that, but not new axles because the warranty excludes them....

The exclusion appears when folks bend the axles on their OWN accord, and expect the warranty to cover them.

So the dealership was on my side and said NO WAY, and were not going to let it go...

They contacted Lippert, who made all the components, and it looks like now Lipperts is giving me all new stuff, and the warranty is paying for the labor.

But as you can see, so many variables involved in trailering and how damage might occur, and they are a business and need to be certain that someone else is not lying to them, etc....they have to be prudent, or they will go broke.

I will walk my trailer when I pick it up, I never thought about that before reading this post....that is a great idea!
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Old 03-24-2022, 08:42 AM   #15
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FYI, it appears the OP signed off immediately after his initial post and has yet to return so perhaps some of the info is valuable but might be wasted on the OP unless he returns and fills in the gaps in his story.
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Old 03-24-2022, 10:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Jay, You mention "pulls" on your camper's roof. What are you referring to?

I've attached a picture of one (actually 2) that I didn't see originally since these were smaller. The other pulls were longer with a larger hole. Also this 'pull ripple' was less since it was now hot and the material flattened quite a bit.


Jay
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Old 03-24-2022, 12:26 PM   #17
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Your experience matches several of mine. As I told the GM at my dealership (and anyone else that will listen), I've never (not once) taken my RV in and left it that something wasn't damaged. I even left one once for about 3 weeks and when I went to get it one end of the vertical awning mount was bent in right in the middle with a scrape down the side of the trailer. I saw it as I went to get it then got the SM and showed him. He said "it was like that when you brought it in wasn't it" and I told him of course not. From that point on I always made the person that checked in the trailer take their little inspection sheet with them and go around the trailer with me. When complete I make sure they write "no damage at check in" on the page and it goes in my file. That has saved me a couple of arguments along the way. Oh, and that bent awning arm? They replaced the entire awning. Seems a porter finally fessed up (after a helper helped him remember with the SM/GM) that the back of a trailer he was shoving in next to mine clipped the side of my trailer.... That guy seemed to have a problem with drugs and doesn't move trailers, or work there, any longer.
It's so easy these days with smart phones to take a few min to take photos and document the condition. When I was working I rented A LOT of rental cars at airports all over the country. Back in the 1990's when my employer gave us digital cameras (3.5" floppy drive memory and IIRC 4 AA batteries that lasted for maybe a dozen photos) I started taking pics when I picked up and dropped off cars. It saved me twice, both times at STL.

Seemed like National rarely had anyone there to "check in" the cars after about 4 pm. I got home to an email stating the car was damaged and a dollar amount to repair..Found it interesting that the place was a ghost town when I left it yet a mere couple of hours had an estimate for damages. I guess they had a reckless lot man.or some scam going on. Both times I sent time/date stamped photos and they dropped their claim. I would recommend documenting condition of any vehichle or other property when placed in the hands of others.
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Old 03-24-2022, 02:25 PM   #18
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It's so easy these days with smart phones to take a few min to take photos and document the condition. When I was working I rented A LOT of rental cars at airports all over the country. Back in the 1990's when my employer gave us digital cameras (3.5" floppy drive memory and IIRC 4 AA batteries that lasted for maybe a dozen photos) I started taking pics when I picked up and dropped off cars. It saved me twice, both times at STL.

Seemed like National rarely had anyone there to "check in" the cars after about 4 pm. I got home to an email stating the car was damaged and a dollar amount to repair..Found it interesting that the place was a ghost town when I left it yet a mere couple of hours had an estimate for damages. I guess they had a reckless lot man.or some scam going on. Both times I sent time/date stamped photos and they dropped their claim. I would recommend documenting condition of any vehichle or other property when placed in the hands of others.

I work in peoples houses installing hvac equipment…I learned a long time ago to document EVERYTHING…I walk onto a job site and take multiple pictures of
Everything….the concrete driveway ,the carpet stains, the loose step,marks on drywall etc…I make then sign off that they are aware of the issues before I start.

I take before and after pictures of the entire job

I also learned the hard way to email email email…just because you talk to someone face to face or they promise you something or admit to something on the phone… I still follow up with a email and ask them to respond back that they received it…or I ask another question in the email so they are likely to respond.

A persons memory becomes conveniently selective and they can’t quite remember what was discussed or promised. Cover your a#&…lol
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Old 03-31-2022, 06:29 PM   #19
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I would to see the OP come back. I'm dying to learn what kind of "huge hole in roof from one side to the other" takes two weeks to detect.
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Old 04-01-2022, 06:27 AM   #20
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OP joined May 2022, has one and only one post to their name and to date nothing but crickets. I think this circus has packed up and left town. At least the home team showed up to play.
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