Battery Shut Off - 25RDS and Solarflex

[Kaylodad]

New 25RDS owner trying to understand the electrical system (one 12v battery on my Aliner was certainly easier).

We have the Solarflex installation and 2 6v batteries. There is a Seaflo shut-off switch and a shutoff switch on the "giggy" box. The Seaflo switch seems only to shutoff power to the inverter, not 12v, and the giggy box switch seems to shut off all 12v except for the charge controller (maybe keeps brake controller powered)?

Is it safe to assume the giggy box should be on for traveling, the seaflo switch on only if 120v is needed (both when connected and boon docking) and the only way to totally disconnect the batteries is to remove the negative leads from both batteries?

And lastly when we store the trailer the charge controller seems to float charge the batteries (with all shut off switches in the off position) so the only good reason to remove the batteries is to eliminate thermal shock (getting too cold or too hot) (it's 0 in Denver right now).

Thanks for any advice.

[Paul2]

We just got a 22 passport 221BH. I dug around some and pretty much agree with your statements. We will leave the Giggy box on while traveling to run the 12V fridge. If sunny, the solar and truck supply should more than keep up with that. I made a rough drawing of what I found in ours. No guarantees of accuracy but may be helpful to you.

[JRTJH]

Paul2,

Looking at your wiring diagram, I think you've got it correctly drawn. My only suggestion would be to move the ground from the "left battery in the diagram" to the negative terminal on the "right battery in the diagram"...

Why ???

The way you've go the batteries connected to the trailer, you have a "master battery" (left one) that provides power to the trailer and a "slave battery" that only provides power when there is increased demand or when the "master battery" is weak/discharged beyond the charge level of the "slave battery"...

If the ground is connected to the negative post on the right battery, then the charge will be "pulled from both batteries equally" providing for increased battery life and more even charge/discharge cycles...

[Javi]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Paul2,

Looking at your wiring diagram, I think you've got it correctly drawn. My only suggestion would be to move the ground from the "left battery in the diagram" to the negative terminal on the "right battery in the diagram"...

Why ???

The way you've go the batteries connected to the trailer, you have a "master battery" (left one) that provides power to the trailer and a "slave battery" that only provides power when there is increased demand or when the "master battery" is weak/discharged beyond the charge level of the "slave battery"...

If the ground is connected to the negative post on the right battery, then the charge will be "pulled from both batteries equally" providing for increased battery life and more even charge/discharge cycles...

I've got the same situation in the 313RS. Keystone wired one battery as the primary house battery and then limped the inverter battery into the charging circuit without using an isolator or connecting the batteries together for more Ah's .

That's my next project, replace the 24 series wet cells with 31 series AGMs and wire them in parallel so they act as one.

[Paul2]

I am using a set of 2/0 cables between the 2 batteries so probably doesn't matter. One thing I did find was the factory ran a 4 guage cable from the battery to the negative in the Giggy box. That bypasses the shunt and gave very inaccurate battery drain values in the shunt app. I simple removed from the battery and connected to the frame ground to fix it. There can be only 1 path in the negative through the shunt and the to everything else from all the shunt docs I have read.

[sourdough]

John is correct. You should move that negative cable to the other battery. As is the 2nd battery is simply an outboard spare being charged until battery 1 is depleted below the charge in battery 2 - no matter the gauge of the wire.

To think of it easiest, positive is always looking for ground and it will choose the least path of resistance to get there. Look at your diagram and you will see that the feed lines to battery one make a complete circuit without ever involving battery 2 - it simply sits there taking a charge OR augmenting battery 1 when it gets lower than the charge in battery 2. Moving the negative cable to battery 2 then forces positive to flow through both batteries to find what it's looking for.....ground.

[flybouy]

To piggyback on Danny's comment above .. the load should be on opposite batteries. While the heavy wire may have a low resistance it does have ressistance. By connecting as suggested the current MUST flow thru both batteries. Hope that helps clarify.

[jxnbbl]

For the OP:


"And lastly when we store the trailer the charge controller seems to float charge the batteries (with all shut off switches in the off position) so the only good reason to remove the batteries is to eliminate thermal shock (getting too cold or too hot) (it's 0 in Denver right now)."


I always remove the batteries and have them on a float charger in the garage as it gets cold here...I wrap the terminal ends now that I have solar panels as there can be a charge/spark.

[lab traveller]

We have a '22 Cougar 22RBS with the SolarFlex 400i package.

In November, both 12V batteries got very hot from overcharging.
Since the RV was in storage, with BOTH(Giggy box & Inverter disconnect) battery switches were shut off; and no(120V) landline was attached; the only source of power was through the Victron solar charge controller. The dealer believed the overcharging resulted from one of the batteries being defective.
Since the solar panels are always charging the batteries(even with the 2 disconnects "OFF", we disconnected the main GROUND wire at the battery box to eliminate ANY possible future battery issues.

One further question I have:
Does anyone know WHERE our Victron SMART SHUNT battery monitor is located ??
My only guess is that it may be contained in the sealed black plastic rectangular box that has the Inverter disconnect switch(just rear of the two battery boxes).
Also, we purchased the Victron Smart(Bluetooth) dongle, so we can monitor the electrical, battery, and solar charging status; and we are GLAD we did.

Wishing everyone a FUN summer RV season.

[Jeff615]

Originally Posted by lab traveller

We have a '22 Cougar 22RBS with the SolarFlex 400i package.

In November, both 12V batteries got very hot from overcharging.
Since the RV was in storage, with BOTH(Giggy box & Inverter disconnect) battery switches were shut off; and no(120V) landline was attached; the only source of power was through the Victron solar charge controller. The dealer believed the overcharging resulted from one of the batteries being defective.
Since the solar panels are always charging the batteries(even with the 2 disconnects "OFF", we disconnected the main GROUND wire at the battery box to eliminate ANY possible future battery issues.

One further question I have:
Does anyone know WHERE our Victron SMART SHUNT battery monitor is located ??
My only guess is that it may be contained in the sealed black plastic rectangular box that has the Inverter disconnect switch(just rear of the two battery boxes).
Also, we purchased the Victron Smart(Bluetooth) dongle, so we can monitor the electrical, battery, and solar charging status; and we are GLAD we did.

Wishing everyone a FUN summer RV season.

You can monitor the Victron Smart Shunt on your Iphone. Go to your app store and look for VictronConnect. Look at your manual and it will explain how to setup the app. if you don't have the manual, you can get it here https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...unt-pdf-en.pdf

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Kaylodad

...
And lastly when we store the trailer the charge controller seems to float charge the batteries (with all shut off switches in the off position) so the only good reason to remove the batteries is to eliminate thermal shock (getting too cold or too hot) (it's 0 in Denver right now).

Thanks for any advice.

Consider the "loss of solar charging capacity" when snow covers the roof panels... You "may have the ability to keep your batteries charged in nice weather" but as soon as you get a couple inches of snow on the roof, you lose that "float charge capability" and the batteries will discharge in a day or two (cold weather and phantom electrical drains), so don't "bet the bank" on having good batteries in the spring if you leave them on the trailer and depend on the solar panels to keep them charged.... Might work in Florida, but not so much where the "snow flies".....

[lab traveller]

Yes, the Victron dongle, and app are a Must.

And thanks for the “Snow covering the solar panels” advice.

Can anyone tell me Where the Smart Stunt is mounted ??

[Chainsaw]

The Victron smart shunt is located inside the plastic black box that has the main disconnect. Obviously disconnect your batteries first, then remove the self tapping screws that mount the box to the trailer. On the back of the box is 6 small Phillips head screws. Remove those and the back of the box will come off. The Allen head bolts on the front hold the disconnect switch and the smart shunt with lock nuts on the back. I am currently in the process of cleaning all of the rust out of my disconnect/shunt box as the box is not water tight and it was half full of water. Of course the warranty on my 2022 Keystone Cougar 30rkd ran out last month. Probably for the best as I'm sure I'm doing a much more thorough job than the dealer would. About to finish the project up today. Hopefully the smart shunt still works, but I'm not sure it will after being submerged. Hopefully these pictures will help. I took them yesterday when I started this project in hopes that if the smart shunt is dead the dealership that holds the extended warranty might send me a new one (LOL). I had already taken 4 of the 6 screws out of the back when I took the picture, but you get the idea. I'm probably going to put a couple very small weep holes in the bottom of the box to make sure this doesn't happen again.

[lab traveller]

Thank you "Chainsaw" !

Your investigation (photos ,and repair discussion) into the "SWIMMING"
(Inverter Disconnect Switch) plastic (cosmetic) box was excellent.

I will disassemble mine as you described; and will put in weep holes.

Many RVers ***should do the same***;
or they will end up with a "mystery" open Inverter ground.

Frankly, this setup is not up to the high engineering standards of Keystone.
Glad you took the TIME to check it out.

[PackFan]

Thanks for the photos and recommendations as this is exactly the information I was looking for in another thread.

The Smart Shunt on my SolarFlex 400i equipped Cougar has been unresponsive since Day 1. It is currently at the dealer for repair as it is still under warranty.

I don't have a lot of confidence in the dealer's work either, so I will probably add the weep holes and seal the box with silicone when I get it back- hopefully with a working Smart Shunt.

[PackFan]

Hey Chainsaw:

In your picture of the interior of the inverter switch box, is the power lead for the shunt (which I am assuming is the small red wire) connected to the hot side or the switched side of the inverter switch? In other words, is the shunt powered even when the inverter is switched off?

Mine is currently in the shop so I am unable to track this down.

Thanks!

[PackFan]

Originally Posted by Paul2

We just got a 22 passport 221BH. I dug around some and pretty much agree with your statements. We will leave the Giggy box on while traveling to run the 12V fridge. If sunny, the solar and truck supply should more than keep up with that. I made a rough drawing of what I found in ours. No guarantees of accuracy but may be helpful to you.

In Paul2's diagram, it looks like the shunt is connected to the hot side of the inverter switch. This would make the most sense so that the shunt would still work with the inverter turned off. But you never know.

[PackFan]

Originally Posted by Chainsaw

The Victron smart shunt is located inside the plastic black box that has the main disconnect. Obviously disconnect your batteries first, then remove the self tapping screws that mount the box to the trailer. On the back of the box is 6 small Phillips head screws. Remove those and the back of the box will come off. The Allen head bolts on the front hold the disconnect switch and the smart shunt with lock nuts on the back. I am currently in the process of cleaning all of the rust out of my disconnect/shunt box as the box is not water tight and it was half full of water. Of course the warranty on my 2022 Keystone Cougar 30rkd ran out last month. Probably for the best as I'm sure I'm doing a much more thorough job than the dealer would. About to finish the project up today. Hopefully the smart shunt still works, but I'm not sure it will after being submerged. Hopefully these pictures will help. I took them yesterday when I started this project in hopes that if the smart shunt is dead the dealership that holds the extended warranty might send me a new one (LOL). I had already taken 4 of the 6 screws out of the back when I took the picture, but you get the idea. I'm probably going to put a couple very small weep holes in the bottom of the box to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Any update about the working status of your smart shunt?

It looks like some Victron shunts have IP21 protection and others have IP65. No idea which one Keystone installs. I don't know if either are protected from being submerged, but the IP65 version may have a better chance.

[RacerX]

Originally Posted by lab traveller

We have a '22 Cougar 22RBS with the SolarFlex 400i package.

One further question I have:
Does anyone know WHERE our Victron SMART SHUNT battery monitor is located ??
My only guess is that it may be contained in the sealed black plastic rectangular box that has the Inverter disconnect switch(just rear of the two battery boxes).
.

My first post on this forum….hope this helps and (works). When we received our cougar in 2021. I had to hunt down the Smart Shunt as it was dead. Found it soaking in water (not a good thing) inside the box with the SeaFlow shut off switch which I believe is the inverter disconnect. Yours is probably in the same place but hopefully with better seals. I believe the cable seals were loose and the Keystone or dealer prep included a power wash of the front cap that was a little too agressive and allowed that box to fill with water that flowed down the negative cable that enters the box from the top.

Just saw that ChainSaw had answered this previously. Sorry for the duplication. Same issue as his…full of water…and in the inverter disconnect box. My 2022 Cougar 32RLI was built before the ip65 shunt was announced by Victron…it has the old style non waterproof shunt. My experience was once wet the Bluetooth circuitry on the shunt was toast. I had to replace the shunt.

[RacerX]

Originally Posted by flybouy

To piggyback on Danny's comment above .. the load should be on opposite batteries. While the heavy wire may have a low resistance it does have ressistance. By connecting as suggested the current MUST flow thru both batteries. Hope that helps clarify.

Plus 1 on this. After reading this thread I went out to double check on the wiring done when the dealer added the two batteries. They were wired in slave master parallel like the OP. Easy fix, but I also noted that the interconnecting cables were a much lower gauge (prob 4 AWG) for the 2 foot between batteries. I am assuming that even with the 2000 watt inverter minimal use I am prob ok with that length and gauge between batteries but interested if I am off base.
Now that current will flow Thru both batteries should i be adding higher gauge between the two? ( both sill Interstate lead acid)