WD Receiver Numbers Confusion

[Danno59]

Hi, I'm new to the forum with my 2nd post. I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but here goes.

My receiver reads Towing capacity 5,000 Tongue weight 500.
Weigh Distributing 9,000 WD tongue 900.

What's the difference between the Towing and Weight Distributing numbers? Does that mean if using a WD hitch that I can tow a trailer with a tongue weight of up to 900 pounds?

EDIT: If I am pushing the limits with a Class III receiver, would I benefit by upgrading to a Class IV?

Thanks

[Logan X]

Yes, if you use a WDH you can tow with 900 pound tongue weight. But as you say, it’s probably better to upgrade the receiver rather than push the limit.

What size trailer are you towing that has a 900 pound tongue weight? That sounds like a big trailer for a tow vehicle equipped with a class 3 hitch.

[flybouy]

What tow vehicle ? If the hitch capacity exceeds the vehicle capacity then you cannot tow any more than that white and yellow sticker on the driver's door strike states.

[JRTJH]

Typically vehicle manufacturers do an outstanding job of matching receiver ratings with vehicle towing limitations. There may be a few exceptions, but if the receiver on your vehicle is rated at 9000/900, then chances are very good that the vehicle is not capable of towing more than 9000 pounds or carrying a hitch weight greater than 900 pounds when using a WD hitch. The limits for "non-WD hitch" towing is even less because of the "weight dynamics" placed on the vehicle frame caused by the absence of "weight distribution", such as lifting weight from the steering axle, unbalanced tire loading, etc.

[Danno59]

I have not measured my actual tongue weight, though the manufacturer specs says it is 485 with empty propane bottles. Trailer is a 2020 Hideout 22LHSWE, 4507 dry weight. Add 60 gallons of propane to the tanks and 150 pounds in batteries to the tongue weight, I have exceeded the receiver 500 limit. But since I am using a proper WD hitch, then my specific receiver is allowing for a 900# tongue weight? I am guessing my tongue weight with full propane and batteries should be hitting around 750?

As for my tow vehicle:
GVWR: 6700
Payload Capacity: 1561
Curb weight(per CAT scale includes full gas tank): 5040
WD hitch weight: 100 (guessing)
GCVWR for my specific vehicle per owner's manual: 12,200

So after loading my tow vehicle and trailer(I weighed everything with a bathroom scale including myself), I am underweight by 330, with neither vehicle at overweight.

Which other numbers should I be concerned with?

[sourdough]

Here is a link to your trailer;

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2020-...2lhswe-tr42572


Note that it is a 7200 lb. trailer. 7200 x .13 = 936 lbs. so the trailer alone will exceed the receiver rating. Add another 125lbs. for the hitch that slides into it and you are WELL beyond the rating for the receiver. You will never go on a trip with just propane and batteries so you need to figure on the high side or figure on not camping at all because you can't eat, cook, sleep, get dressed or play with the LP or batteries.

[travelin texans]

There are numerous threads on this forum, or any other forum for towables, ALL with the same message;
RV dry weights & truck max tow weights mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when trying to match RVs to tow vehicles.
Also numerous threads on how to find the useable numbers & how to calculate them correctly.
Yet everyone keeps posting those numbers as if to justify hauling overloaded.
The rv & truck manufacturers should be advised to STOP posting these useless numbers, but that would possibly affect sales for both to unsuspecting buyers.
Unfortunately folks buy a truck with idea, and false information from the salesman, thinking it'll tow anything they want, then head out & buy too much RV only to find they don't have enough tow vehicle. Which usually means they're towing overloaded which results in poor handling, a dangerous situation for themselves & others on the road with them or will spend for $$ upgrading to the proper tow vehicle.

[Danno59]

I'm not trying to justify overloading. But rather trying to learn from those who are more experienced. Bottom line for advice from you to me: Given the numbers below, would you experienced folks tow and feel safe about it?


Tow vehicle GVWR: 6700(payload sticker is 1561)
Trailer Dry: 4507

Loaded tow vehicle weight: 6330(includes 750 tongue weight and 100 WD hitch weight)
Loaded trailer weight: 5500 (empty water tanks, minimal packing)
Total CVW as loaded: 11,830
Allowable CVWR: 12,200

Under by: 370

So now that I'm under the loaded weight with both vehicles, what about the height(11') and length(26') of trailer? How will that come in to play?

[NH_Bulldog]

Understand that you want a 10-15% safety factor. With your numbers you have a 3% safety margin. Too close for my liking. What kind of tires on your tow vehicle? Easy way to tell is look at max inflation pressure; 44 psi? You have a passenger car tire, too dangerous to tow your trailer. 51 psi? A little better, but not great and you would have to run at max pressure to tow. 80 psi? That is a light truck (LT) tire, LRE (load range E) and is the tire you need.

Then you have to know that manufacturers rate a vehicle’s trailer towing capacity with a flatbed trailer loaded with steel weights. Unrealistic and largely irrelevant in this situation.

As you mentioned, you do need to think about frontal area and side area of the trailer. Frontal area affects wind resistance and adds theoretical weight to the set-up. Most manufacturers publish a towing guide that provides details specific to your vehicle. Side area is a factor depending on your tow vehicle’s wheelbase. The shorter the wheelbase, the more the trailer will “wag the dog”. The key numbers for wheelbase are: The first 110 inches of wheelbase allow for a 20-foot trailer. For each additional four inches of wheelbase length, you get one foot more in trailer length. That means your tow vehicle needs a minimum wheelbase of 130 inches for your trailer (the box is 22’ plus 3’ for the tongue = 25’).

No one here is judging, just trying to educate. For what it’s worth, many if not most of us have learned this from firsthand experience and we are just trying to save you from a mistake that could cost you or someone you love or even some innocent driver on the road from an unnecessary injury or loss of life.

[chuckster57]

Let me reiterate what's been said before and in this thread, DO NOT USE EMPTY (dry) weights.

When calculating always use the GVWR or ACTUAL WIEGHT. We all say we aren't going to travel with much stuff or any water..I have learned that there will come the day that you find yourself hauling all the waste water somewhere to dump. At that point your most likely way over the limits. I have had to haul a full gray and black tank from Nebraska to South Dakota because where I stayed didn't allow me to dump even the gray. Then theres the gear that seems to always grow into "we need that too".

No one is trying to judge you, and in the end its totally your choice. most of us have been there done that and just trying to help you not make the same mistakes we have.

[sourdough]

Danno, the posts above are on point. Not a soul here is pointing fingers about anything; Lord knows most (including me) have been there and done that at a considerable cost.

Saying you are going to go "light/minimal", no water etc. is unrealistic. Oh, it might be that way for a trip or 2 but it won't last long. There WILL be that day you have to haul with your tanks full if you travel much at all.

In that minimal packing did you include plenty of tools, jacks, compressor(s), leveling boards/legos, sockets, torque wrenches, lawn chairs, bbq, ice chest (loaded), dehumidifier (yeah, you will want one eventually), ice maker (that too). What about that stacking cookware (we love our Magma), slow cooker, rice cooker, pressure cooker, toaster, oven toaster, air fryer....well, I could go on for an hour. Minimal WILL disappear if you are like most everyone I've ever met. Oh, did you replace that OE mattress yet with a nice, comfy, heavier after market one (if you haven't you will)? And when you do all that.....what about the limitations on that receiver again?

I know this is new to you and we are truly trying to help you not only understand but be safe. It would be beneficial to all I think if you could share a little about you; how many of you, what do you like to do, what kind of "camping" are you envisioning, toys you like to take (bikes/kayaks etc.). We have a very diverse group that is wonderful at sharing their experiences and want to help you start out on the right foot having a blast with your new camping experiences.

As was pointed out that 370lb. margin, loaded very minimally, doesn't even give you any safety margin to speak of and I really believe you will be adding more "stuff".

[notanlines]

Danno, all of the above is great info. Nobody is saying don't tow this way, just know for sure where you stand and take steps to correct the situation. And very seldom are you beating a dead horse on this forum. It is here for people to learn by, and there is no end to the questions.
Book it, Danno! (C'mon, it is the best I could do on short notice)

[Danno59]

Thanks for the tips everyone. The TT will be resting on some mountain property for 4-6 weeks, maybe longer. I honestly can't wait to bring it home and hit the CAT scale, as that will tell me a story. I knew going in to buying this TT that I would be pushing the limits. We actually had narrowed the field down to 2 different units, the other being nice, but much smaller(and more towable for my TV), and I knew in a year or two if we bought the smaller one we would be trading up quickly, so we chose the bigger unit. Of course, also knowing that if we bought the bigger unit I would probably, in a year or two, be trading up to a more capable tow vehicle. And what guy doesn't want a more capable tow vehicle?

sourdough, to answer your question about what type of camping I envision. Most of my previous camp trailer camping over 30 years has consisted of dragging a unit through the woods on old, rutted out logging roads. I probably won't be doing that with this new TT, as my wife likes it too much for me to tear up. Of course, I really can't afford to tear it up anyway. So I'll be more selective in my road choices. 20 years ago we pulled a small TT up and down the Oregon Coast for a week, staying in state parks. We would like to do that trip again with the new TT, but with the Covid going on, it probably won't be this year.

[sourdough]

I used to go back in the woods using a pop up trailer...and it was "back" in the woods....actual camping. I used to deer hunt with my friend that had another pop up and the undersides were totally bent up because we truly did go "back there". Bought my first hard sided trailer, like the Taj Mahal to us at the time, and I still took into the backwoods but those trails got more like gravel roads and some ruts - just couldn't see beating up a brand new trailer with all those "oh so new" toys in it. And it began...…

Always carried a tent and "stuff" for many years leaving the RV alone. Got to where so many folks intruded on camping, even way in the backwoods, I gave that up, bought a mountain home and went with that and played with an RV on the side. Long story but as you progress in the RV ownership realm, for us, we have gotten more and more into "glamping" I guess vs "camping" in the wild. Of course age, broken piece parts, illnesses and diseases play a large part in those decisions. Get your "stuff" together, watch those weights and what you put in that truck and trailer, then go have some fun out there. Our beautiful world is getting smaller and smaller, more and more crowded with more places put off limits. Go and do it and have fun....and let us know when you pull the pin on that bigger truck.

[Bill-2020]

Danno, have you already selected a WD hitch?

I use a WD hitch that can handle a 10,000 pound trailer and 1000 tongue weight, but my camper is way below those max weights by about 30%. Yes, it seems a bit stiffer towing than the previous WD hitch I had that was rated at 8000/800, but reality is when the bigger camper comes one day, I'll already have the tow equipment to handle it. Don't skimp on the right WD hitch.

[Danno59]

Originally Posted by Bill-2020

Danno, have you already selected a WD hitch?

I use a WD hitch that can handle a 10,000 pound trailer and 1000 tongue weight, but my camper is way below those max weights by about 30%. Yes, it seems a bit stiffer towing than the previous WD hitch I had that was rated at 8000/800, but reality is when the bigger camper comes one day, I'll already have the tow equipment to handle it. Don't skimp on the right WD hitch.

Thanks for the info. I got the Fastway e2 10,000/1,000 with anti-sway bars. Not because I knew what I was doing(because I didn't), but that is what the salesman suggested. I've only towed my new rig 75 miles so far, and with the WD set up it was simply amazing.

[Danno59]

Originally Posted by sourdough

"glamping"

Yep, As I have aged, glamping just seems more appealing than pitching a tent.

[Bill-2020]

WD hitches make it safer - I towed a tiny camper years ago and didn't bother with a WD (used airbags to level out the truck ). I never knew what I was missing until I upgraded to a larger camper and added the WD... What a difference. It's amazing how many TV/Camper combinations I see while commuting to/from work daily on I-95 without a WD. It's usually very apparent before I even pass them or they pass me going the opposite way. Things like TV front end angled way up while the rear is nearly dragging. Or the front of the rig nose-diving, front axle tires squashed into the pavement, and rear axle tires just look to be nearly floating.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Danno59

I'm not trying to justify overloading. But rather trying to learn from those who are more experienced. Bottom line for advice from you to me: Given the numbers below, would you experienced folks tow and feel safe about it?


Tow vehicle GVWR: 6700(payload sticker is 1561)
Trailer Dry: 4507

Loaded tow vehicle weight: 6330(includes 750 tongue weight and 100 WD hitch weight)
Loaded trailer weight: 5500 (empty water tanks, minimal packing)
Total CVW as loaded: 11,830
Allowable CVWR: 12,200

Under by: 370

So now that I'm under the loaded weight with both vehicles, what about the height(11') and length(26') of trailer? How will that come in to play?

The "bottom line" is this" Until you actually tow your rig to a CAT scale and pay for three weighs, you're making "guesses" at what you're actually towing.

My suggestion: Find a CAT scale near you, https://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator/ tow your rig to that scale, go inside, discuss with the "weigh master" what you're trying to do, so he knows you'll be weighing 3 times and what your objectives are.

Then drive onto the scales with your tow vehicle front axle on pad #1, rear tow vehicle axle on pad #2 and trailer axles on pad #3. Get a weight.

Without moving the rig, get out, release the tension on the WD bars (leave them in the hitch) and get back in the truck for the second weight.

Next, drive off the scales, unhitch and drive the tow vehicle onto the scale with front axle on pad #1 and rear axle on pad #2. get back in the truck and get the third weight.

With those three weight tickets, total cost is $17. That's $12 for the initial weigh, $2.50 for the second weigh and $2.50 for the third weigh. Until you "KNOW" (not guess) at what your actual weights are, you're making assumptions about something that might be significantly different than reality.

Find a CAT scale and work with "reality" not "assumptions"....

[Danno59]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Without moving the rig, get out, release the tension on the WD bars (leave them in the hitch) and get back in the truck for the second weight.

Thanks for the info. Curious what this weigh is for? Thanks