2011 Keystone Laredo 321BHS input needed

[outlaw85]

Hello, first review, soon to be first Keystone.

(Sorry, carried the post over from another site that didn't get much traction, hope it does here. I tried to edit what I can from a 3day post)


Day1:::
We have a 1997 Challenger 30RK which is more or less a project trailer the wife doesn't want to deal with any longer. I've definitely learned a lot with it.

We may be biting the bullet on a 2011 Keystone Laredo 321BHS. Unfortunately, new isn't in the cards. We tried for a 2017 Volante 310BH (not comfortable with payment) and looked at a 2016 Rezerve 36DB (too big for this point in life, payment would have been up there too).

Tow Vehicle:
2006 F350 CC
4x4 Dually w/TowBoss (4.30Gears)
6.0 PSD

Trailer Spec:
https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2011-...n-321bh-tr8752

Trailer Link:
https://www.freedomrvwi.com/all/3161...-laredo-321bhs

I did find a couple 'reviews for the Laredo lines which was from new it appears.

I'm wondering if people are still using them and if there are any tips they could offer before we get knee deep. Any concerns with "floating walls". And are there mounting spots for tv wall mount in bedrooms or basement?

I now know after looking the other day, they have rear floating wall.. dislike very much. I immediately thought delam. Hides potential issues. How much 'delam look/sound' is too much? Just don't know whats back there.

Aside from exterior rear wall, looks really clean from what little I know. We did a walk through but didn't do a real walk through with trying slides/appliances. Apparently that is a thing you do after purchasing..:/

After reading an rvnet thread, it appears the 2 dump pipes are labeled wrong? Makes sense because we were confused why the prev. owner had personal labels on them lol. Still not sure which is what and why they did 2 drains, makes extended stays with sewer a pita.

I'm pretty sure I seen the main plug was 50A, if yes, does that mean it's likely wired for 2nd AC? I've seen different models go between the 30 and 50.


Likes-
-Looks in better shape than current 30RK
-Reviews I could find appear to be good/really good
-More family friendly with bunkhouse
-Wife likes rear master
-1.5bath? (nice to have, not required)
-large basement storage
-50A for 2nd AC if needed (nice to have, not required)
-75G black/grey tank

Dislikes-
-Front bathroom configuration (not ideal for only dude in the family, but not a deal breaker)
-living/kitchen layout (not ideal, but not expecting to spend a ton of time inside it either.)
-2011? (would like new but guess we'll have to progress)
-Weight? (Within spec of TV but about 1k heavier on dry weight and 2k heaver loaded)
-Paperwork said "tires unknown condition"

I'm sure i'm missing something from either like/dislike but this is what stuck out.

I'll also be asking for the 20K Reese Goose Box and chains.




Day2:::
Update-

Was at dealer today.
It was agreed that the truck bed condition wasn't ideal for the companion hitch so we will be putting the goose box on it.

-Confirmed it's 50A service with 2nd AC prewired.
-The rear blind was removed (was there Thurs but broken). They are going to fix/replace.
-1/2 bath faucet is missing cold handle. How? They are going to replace
-Tire condition is marked unknown, said they do this for all used RVs. No sign of dryrot, tread looks OK. Prob keep a year or two and replace when we do the TV tires. YEY! not
-Listened to slides today, sounded smooth and quiet.
-Also learned (hopefully) that Laredo also hung the slide walls (width wall, not exterior wall.. ehh)
-They will be going over it again to inspect. I called out one of the vent caps on the roof being damaged/loose. It was just from the ladder, I did not do a roof walk.

Should know by EOD Monday when we can pick it up. Wait will likely be for hitch order/install though. Excited to take on extended trip over the 4th.

Day3 (Monday June 25):::
Called to follow-up. Verified approved for trailer and that I want the 20K goose box. Did not hear back today how long that would be to order/install. hopefully hear tomorrow. At this point waiting on them to confirm. Hoping to close on this and have it for this weekend to pack for our week trip.


Since I know most place like pictures. Here's some of our current 30RK

Problems (known when purchased)-
-Mice did quite a number to the insulation, plumbing and some wiring
-Water damage to drive side wall and slide

Work completed
-A lot of cleaning
-New tires
-New brakes
-Attempted to reseal where leaks were thought to be.
-2nd AC in bedroom (couldn't run at same time due to 30A circuit but nice to have)
-Reran duct for rear AC
-Reran 2 water lines from rear sink to basement storage
-Replaced city water connection
-'Repaired' styrofoam shroud for AC (used greatstuff and 12pk box)



Album- https://flic.kr/s/aHskpBAMua


Mock up before pickup.


Some... well... a lot of elbow grease and bleach water


Cleaned up and has 2nd AC my dad and I installed in the front


Trip back from I80 truck stop. Trying to blend in

[ctbruce]

It looks like you've gone over it pretty good . Some thoughts:
1. Do a good PDI before you sign, not after. If you find something after you sign it'll be your problem to fix. Search for PDI list on the forum.
2. Tires. Look at the manufacture date, not the condition. Trailer tires age out before they wear out. Looks can be and are deceiving.
3. A lot of Keystones use the floating rear wall. There have been reports on this forum of some problems, but very few. YMMV.

Some others will chime in shortly. They always do. Good luck on your purchase and welcome to the forum.

[JRTJH]

Welcome to the forum. My thoughts:

You have a second A/C (it's on the Challenger). Swap it out and take that expense money to buy new tires for the Laredo. You'll be "miles ahead" and much less likely to have problems with blow-outs/sidewall destruction.

Floating rear walls is "the way it's done" on nearly all Keystone products. On a 7 year old trailer, look along the top of the "roof/rear wall" molding. If it's secure and hasn't "slipped down" in 7 years, it's likely never going to move.

The EPDM/TPO roof will not have any warranty (other than what the dealer covers in writing). All of the roof membrane manufacturers limit warranty to "the original owner/not transferrable". Check the DICOR sealant condition very carefully. It likely will have some areas that need to be resealed. Whether the dealer does it before purchase or you do it after purchase, don't let that "little thing" go. Leaks on the roof and the top/side moldings is a critical "weak spot" on any trailer, especially those with OSB underlayment like all Keystones have.

The refrigerator (actually all the appliances) are 6 or 7 years old and are suspect (initially). After using them, you will know better how they perform and get a better feel on their future.

Good Luck with the purchase and the freedom/convenience your "new to you" trailer will bring. Happy travels.

[outlaw85]

so.. had a reply but apparently took too long, timed out and lost the entire post...

Originally Posted by ctbruce

It looks like you've gone over it pretty good . Some thoughts:
1. Do a good PDI before you sign, not after. If you find something after you sign it'll be your problem to fix. Search for PDI list on the forum.
2. Tires. Look at the manufacture date, not the condition. Trailer tires age out before they wear out. Looks can be and are deceiving.
3. A lot of Keystones use the floating rear wall. There have been reports on this forum of some problems, but very few. YMMV.

Some others will chime in shortly. They always do. Good luck on your purchase and welcome to the forum.

Thank you
1. Searched, found and printed. I did bring up going over and the salesman said something about when we sign.. I replied that it doesn't help me then because it's our problem.

2. Good call, I'll be sure to look for the date or code to look up.

3. ehh. so many questions around why this is a "good idea". The wall does appear puffed out around the window. When I called out that it looked delamed, I was assured it was not and it's just by design. My guess is that a 7-8yr old trailer may have puff syndrome vs a new model? It does make sense but I've not had much experince with floating walls to know. The slides are noticeably not bonded to the wall when pressed on but nothing like the rear panel. Probably a good 1/2" push before hitting the wall.




Added (x) to make sure I reply to all.

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Welcome to the forum. My thoughts:

(1) You have a second A/C (it's on the Challenger). Swap it out and take that expense money to buy new tires for the Laredo. You'll be "miles ahead" and much less likely to have problems with blow-outs/sidewall destruction.

(2) Floating rear walls is "the way it's done" on nearly all Keystone products. On a 7 year old trailer, look along the top of the "roof/rear wall" molding. If it's secure and hasn't "slipped down" in 7 years, it's likely never going to move.

(3) The EPDM/TPO roof will not have any warranty (other than what the dealer covers in writing). All of the roof membrane manufacturers limit warranty to "the original owner/not transferrable". Check the DICOR sealant condition very carefully. It likely will have some areas that need to be resealed. Whether the dealer does it before purchase or you do it after purchase, don't let that "little thing" go. Leaks on the roof and the top/side moldings is a critical "weak spot" on any trailer, especially those with OSB underlayment like all Keystones have.

(4) The refrigerator (actually all the appliances) are 6 or 7 years old and are suspect (initially). After using them, you will know better how they perform and get a better feel on their future.

Good Luck with the purchase and the freedom/convenience your "new to you" trailer will bring. Happy travels.

1. Good point, lol I don't believe it was mentioned we had another AC on it and it's not been looked at. Although, I do need to get a new vent. The 3speed temp controlled units are more than we paid for the AC. lol. Basic powered vent, isn't bad only about 1/3. Found a AC/Heater for 300 on CL.. hmm

For ACs, does anybody know if the front opening is ducted to rest of RV or if it uses a room AC with integrated controls? I'd drop the facia to find out really quick but don't own it.. yet.

2. Ehh. When looking for the slippage, am I just trying to find where the old caulk line is/was? Gaps? Aside from the couple obvious things, i'm not sure how else to tell. The rear wall does look "puffy" but my lack of experience leaves me guessing A. problems or B. Normal for age with floating wall. When you walk up to it, you can tell around the window, it's puffed out. My brief scan around the seams I could see, looked ok.

3. I have a tube of dicor self leveling and roll of eternabond at the ready. I think I need to get the lap sealant 'no drip, no sag' for the corners and vertical runs though, THIS?. Knowing what we've learned, and the issues we inherited, I can get a few tubes for preventive I'm guessing hitting the back seam with some extra sealant isn't going to hurt anything and ensure it is actually sealed.

4. I can only hope the appliances in the Laredo work as well as the Challenger's 20+ yr old ones. We did opt for a 2yr mechanical/structural warranty. I know they can be a sham, but hoping A. We never need it and B. It's not if we do. For what it's worth, we were told the dealer does go through the appliances to make sure, furnace/stove/oven/fridge don't leak and work, ac/fridge/freezer get cold.. etc.


Side we have issues with. 2 in circle plus rear slide roof/wall and very front drive side by cap. The rear circle, I actually had to drill a few small holes in the gel coat/fiberglass to let the water out.





Since working on this post, I did here back from the dealer. They already have the goose box in BUT can't install until we pick it up since they don't have a way to move it.. wha? You've never had a goose trailer... ever?

Anywho, we are scheduled to pick up Friday. In the meantime, "they are doing their checks of everything again".


Thank you again and please keep the info coming! It's greatly appreciated.

[JRTJH]

Without seeing the trailer, it's almost impossible to tell you if the rear wall is "normal" or "problematic"... You'd do yourself a favor by visiting any Keystone dealer, or any RV dealership with Keystone's on the lot (new or used, doesn't matter) and inspect the rear wall installation. They are all built the same, attached at the top, bottom, sides and anywhere there is something mounted: tail lights, windows, vents, clearance lights, grill mount, etc. Otherwise, the rear wall "floats".... In the sun, the FILON will expand and "oil-can" or ripple and bulge. If it were installed so it's flat/level when hot, it would pull out of the edge mounts when it cools and shrinks. So, go look at some other Keystone trailers, see how they are attached and then compare those to your Laredo. That should give you a "warm fuzzy" or a "cold chill"... I'm guessing you'll be able to compare/contrast and come up with whether the rear wall is normal or not.

As for the A/C, if you do remove yours, all that was there originally was a cover plate on the power junction box and a non-powered 14x14" roof vent. They are available at any RV parts house for around $20. No need to put anything expensive in its place if you're trading it in. Go "OEM" and don't look back.

[outlaw85]

Agreed. And I get it. I'll shop our dealers around for other keystones. They've got to have at least some.. only sort of a problem is we don't have many that are actually near us.

Good to know about the attached points. Thank you.

The original opening had a thermostat controlled 3 speed. It was never prewired for AC. We ran electrical for it and would alternate ACs running or run the front AC to push down to the living room with the ceiling fan on. Agreed on the not spending a lot to give OE look.

[outlaw85]

Just an update. Like a dumb888, I forgot the inspection papers for the list. I did try to give it a good look over.

When we looked at the rear wall this time, it didn't look nearly as bad as the last time. It had been moved and likely sitting more level. It was previously on gravel without rear stabilizers. Now it was on the paved parking lot without the rear stabilizers.

Did the walk through Friday. Found the rear stabilizers didn't work. The tech doing the walk through (we hadn't talked to him before this point) just kind of blew it off when it didn't work and proceeded to do the walk through. I went along with it until the end. Also found the steps have a crack in them making them bounce.

I kinda became a jerk after the walk through. Commented to the salesman "The rear jacks don't work, is this something that will... or did you make it my problem?" I get it's used (7+yrs) but if it doesn't work, put it on the inspection that you claim to do or fix it. Going to see if I can weld the cracked stairs in the meantime and look into the SolidStep/MoreRyde type for a replacement.

The power cords have electrical tape on the ends for whatever reason. When I asked, it was the "well they probably didn't want the wires exposed"... well no duh, everything connection wise feels solid but will need to be corrected or replaced.

Disconnected main power, then tried to left nose up to connect to truck, no go... "So.. we get a dead battery too?" I asked. I was then told they don't replace the batteries and likely something was just left on.. and that the trailer hadn't been connected long though to give a good charge. Ok, fine. I wanted to put a multibattery setup in anyways.. so not the worst thing.

What I think may be the saving grace was one of the techs didn't hesitate to bring out a test light/meter and start troubleshooting 30min before they closed. Verified it was indeed just a dead/low battery for the front jacks. For the rear stabalizers, him and another tech laid right on the black top and started testing from the switch to the motor. Who we're assuming as the owner or manager said he thinks they had a motor in stock if that's it. They found it was the motor and had one in stock. Pulled the trailer into the shop and replaced it. Confirmed working now and put it all back together.

Since it wasn't plugged in very long according to them, we weren't able to fully test the AC/fridge. While in there, I could tell it was cooling off but would take a while to catch up (~90deg outside). I've already decided the 2nd AC will be coming sooner than later. Kinda sucks it's not ducted in the front. I would move the main AC to the front and put a 15k in the mains location.

Turned on fridge today to start it cooling down for Tues. Freezer was getting nice and cold but the fridge was lacking. I found the system cools the freezer first then fridge. Going to give it a few hours then check and see where we're at.

[Tbos]

Enjoy your rig. Looks like it’s a nice one.

[outlaw85]

This timeout thing while posting is killing me... sigh

Short of it.
For the dealer. "we inspect them" they say.
Strike
1. Rear stabalizers non-functional on purchase, not noted.
2. Tank sensors reading "stuff" but marked as "unknown" status. Attributed to being used/tested for leaks.
3. Black tank flush only flushed the bathroom/bedroom floor with water due to failed check valve. Thankfully nothing food grade in the basement. Only killed 2 walkie talkies.
4. AC intake caked with dust/stuff?
5. Because of above, you think you earned THREE stickers on the trailer? You really do an inspection?


For the good.
1. AC/trailer kept cooler and more comfortable than the previous.
2. Truck handled the extra weight without problem although it did tell me it was there. 93F outside, truck only hit 230F coolant / ~215F oil on long hills. Quickly dropped when fan kicked into high. Otherwise a breeze with max of 70mph.
3. Basement storage is huge. Much liked upgrade from previous.
4. Goosebox makes for a much smoother ride. Still some chucking but I think it's due to the box being too high. Trailer does noticeable nose dive. Going to move a bolt hole or two down and recheck. Should even out weight on front axle as well as truck rear axle.

I think that is what I had previous..
I'll post if I think of it.


Oh yeah.
I need to figure out the tanks. Supposedly 3 tanks- 1grey, 1black, 1fresh.
BUT
1black for rear 1/2bath incl. sink?
1black for front bath?
1grey for all?
1 fresh?

1 valve in rear is definitely for rear sewer.
1 valve in front looks for front sewer.
1 valve in front looks for grey.

[JRTJH]

Keystone specs for the 2011 321BH indicate the following:

Fresh water: 55 gal
Black tanks: 75
Gray Tanks: 75

This is purely speculation, but I'd guess that the black and gray tank volume is actually two of each. That would mean two 37 gallon black tanks and two 37 gallon gray tanks. Chances are good that the rear half bath sink and toilet empty into the rear 37 gallon black tank, the galley has a 37 gallon gray tank and the front bath toilet empties into the front 37 gallon black tank while the shower and sink share the front gray tank, also 37 gallons.

On the side of the trailer, you should find behind the axles, one dump valve for the rear black tank, toward the front basement area, you should find two valves, one for the bath black and one for the bath gray. Located a bit further back, you should find the valve for the galley gray tank. My guess would be that there are two "sewer dumps" on the trailer, one forward of the axles for the front tanks and one behind the axles for that rear black tank.

All the valves and plumbing runs should be above the coroplast underbelly liner, except possibly a 1.5" run to connect the galley gray tank to the "sewer dump". That run may be below the coroplast.

The above is a "best guess" and you may find the valve handles in different locations, but overall, the tank locations, layout and sizes should be fairly accurate.

Let us know what you find.

[outlaw85]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Keystone specs for the 2011 321BH indicate the following:

Fresh water: 55 gal
Black tanks: 75
Gray Tanks: 75

This is purely speculation, but I'd guess that the black and gray tank volume is actually two of each. That would mean two 37 gallon black tanks and two 37 gallon gray tanks. Chances are good that the rear half bath sink and toilet empty into the rear 37 gallon black tank, the galley has a 37 gallon gray tank and the front bath toilet empties into the front 37 gallon black tank while the shower and sink share the front gray tank, also 37 gallons.

On the side of the trailer, you should find behind the axles, one dump valve for the rear black tank, toward the front basement area, you should find two valves, one for the bath black and one for the bath gray. Located a bit further back, you should find the valve for the galley gray tank. My guess would be that there are two "sewer dumps" on the trailer, one forward of the axles for the front tanks and one behind the axles for that rear black tank.

All the valves and plumbing runs should be above the coroplast underbelly liner, except possibly a 1.5" run to connect the galley gray tank to the "sewer dump". That run may be below the coroplast.

The above is a "best guess" and you may find the valve handles in different locations, but overall, the tank locations, layout and sizes should be fairly accurate.

Let us know what you find.

We had it on it's maiden voyage last week (Tuesday through Sunday)


The 2 of each makes sense and I think you are spot on for layout. I wish any of the info I can find, including manufacturer) would have stated this though. Saying there is 1 at a larger capacity is very different than 2 at a smaller capacity.. especially for 5 people. It was actually a selling point thinking it was single large capacity..

I was also searching online to see if others are like this which it probably is and I wasn't finding much, even pictures were few and far between.Currently, I dislike that the rear sewer drain doesn't also dump grey to do a pre-flush.

I was able to locate the 2 forward valves for grey and black tanks. I only found the 1 rear valve for black tank. I also did see the 1.5" pipe just rear of the axle and wasn't sure what that was for. I will have to search for the 4th valve handle.

To make things semi-easy, I ended up connecting both pipes with a Y for the extended stay. At a dump station, I will have to try centering to swing the pipe from one tank to the other or make sure nobody uses the rear toilet/sink.

When we left, we dropped a dissolving tab and left some water in the tanks. I'll try to get some pictures of the configuration.


Thanks for the quick reply,

[outlaw85]

Sent an email to the dealer. Figure it would serve as a paper trail and keep me honest and not put 'filler' words in

Here's said email:

"Hello,

I just purchased a used RV (2011 Laredo 321BH) from you on June 29 and am quickly regretting it. I understand the trailer to be used and will have some defects but not listing problems or inspecting is a concern. I was told all the trailer are inspected but to what degree remains to be seen.

After signing for the trailer it was found that the rear stabilizers didn't work. No mention of this in the lacking inspection sheet and the salesman said he didn't know about it. I commend the tech's for jumping in without hesitation to troubleshoot the dead/junk battery and the rear jack motor that didn't work. You had one in stock and replaced without question. I thought this was a redeeming point.

Over that hurdle, we were exited to take this 'new to us' trailer on an extended trip over the 4th until we were met with a surprise of the black tanks being 2/3 full. Maybe this is is my fault for assuming that inspecting included doing leak tests and thinking the 2/3 reading was water from that test. It was not and the rear valve has seepage so it made removing the cover interesting to say the least.

Once over that and the sewer hooked up, I wanted to use the tank flush. To another surprise, I was only able to flush the interior of the trailer and storage compartment due to the bad check valve. Again, maybe this is my fault for thinking that leak testing is done as part of the inspection process.

If this is how your trailers are, I cannot and will not be using Freedom RV again. At this point I wouldn't even recommend it.

I will also be calling to notify our salesman of me sending this email."

[outlaw85]

I feel it's worth the update.

I left a review on the dealer with the email above in it. I received a call the next day. As of now, I have an appointment for Wed to have the sewer connections and flush check valve taken care of. My assumption is it will be free in exchange for rating change/update.

I was questioned on the 2/3 full tank and how I knew there was 25gal of black water. I told them "While wearing bags on my feet because of the seepage. I didn't measure it but I have the clear elbow and seen the 'mud' going through it and it took minutes to drain." The indicator lights seem to be somewhat accurate after filling and draining with running the toilets. Per the indicator, I left 1/3 water (clean) with waste tabs in them until our next trip.

[outlaw85]

Moved goose box down and found the bolts weren't tightened to even 100ft lbs per my torque wrench.... uhhh...

Moved down and ensured tightened to 210-220 ft lbs