Crazy Toilet problem

[Lee]

....that the problem is with the shut-off valve. I believe that the problem is inherent to the design of the bowl.

First, there is a cavity up around the rim where the outlet jets are that holds water even after the valve is closed. This water will slosh out when the RV is traveling. Couple this with the fact that the bowl is the "rimless" design, there is nothing to stop water that has accumulated in the bowl from sloshing out over the top of the bowl onto the floor.

Lee

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Lee

....that the problem is with the shut-off valve. I believe that the problem is inherent to the design of the bowl.

First, there is a cavity up around the rim where the outlet jets are that holds water even after the valve is closed. This water will slosh out when the RV is traveling. Couple this with the fact that the bowl is the "rimless" design, there is nothing to stop water that has accumulated in the bowl from sloshing out over the top of the bowl onto the floor.

Lee

You are 100%, absolutely, undeniably, spot-on correct. The problem is, you can't "fix" the ineherent design issue of the bowl, so the only alternative is to devise a "work around" that will allow the "inherent design deficiency" to still function without making wet spots on the floor. That's the reason for installing a shut off valve, turning off the water pump, double flushing the toilet, using Saran Wrap, or whatever other method one can devise to prevent the sloshing. We all know there's an "issue" with the installation of a rimless toilet on the back wall of virtually "any RV". There is no "design flaw" in the toilet. It works as designed when installed anywhere except in a "high movement area"... There is no "design flaw" in building a rear bath in an RV. The "design incompatibility enters the "mix" when one installs a rimless toilet in a rear bathroom. That's where the "work around" must be devised. To complicate matters even more, not every installation of a rimless toilet in a rear bath creates the "wet floor syndrome". For that reason, since it's only a few people with a few toilets in a few situations, I wouldn't think Keystone is going to do anything more than say, "OK, your floor got wet, did you dry it to prevent damage???" In other words, with only a few isolated complaints, they aren't very likely to put any priority on a fix, but rather will leave it to the dealer to keep the customer happy. How the dealer does that is not between Keystone and the dealer, but between the dealer and the customer. Keystone will probably continue to do what they have done in the past. They will pay the dealer to devise a method to keep the floor dry. Once Keystone pays the dealer, they're off the hook so to speak, it's up to the dealer to figure out how to make the customer happy. So, every situation will probably be handled differently, but Keystone will keep installing rimless toilets in rear bathrooms....

The question is: How does one work around that "inherent design incompatibility" ????? Sure, it may be "Keystone's fault" or "Forest River's fault" or "Winnebago's fault" or "Who-ever's fault", but they have already sold those with rear bathrooms a rimless toilet in a rear bathroom. Issue now isn't the "inherent design deficiency" it's the "splash/wet floor when towing" problem...... Having to resort to plastic cling wrap off the bowl of potato salad just seems "inadequate" That's where a shutoff valve, turning off the water pump, doubleflushing and/or other actions come into play.

[Lee]

John, Sir if "Having to resort to plastic cling wrap off the bowl of potato salad just seems "inadequate" " to you I'm sorry. All I can tell you is that it WORKS pretty ADEQUATELY for me.

If you read my OP on this subject you will see that I stated that turning off the pump and flushing had already been tried without success.

Adding a shutoff valve, turning off the water pump, doubleflushing will have NO affect removing the residual water that is in the cavity around the rim of the bowl which eventually sloshes into the bowl and then onto the floor.

Lee

[JRTJH]

Then it sounds like you've got a problem.... I agree with you that using the "cling wrap off the bowl of potato salad IS inadequate and you shouldn't have to resort to that. But, I maintain that it is NOT the toilet design that is the problem. There is a reason why you can't empty the bowl and keep it empty. Until you find that, you'll have to use a "work around" or have wet floors. Something in your toilet is not operating properly.

Have you discussed the wet floor with your dealer? If so, what did he suggest? I still maintain that it's not a "defective toilet" or a "design deficiency" with the toilet. There are literally hundreds of thousands of rimless RV toilets in use and there's only a "handful" of problems with wet floors, so it's NOT the toilet. It's either where it's installed in the RV (along the rear wall) or it's another problem, either with the flush valve not closing completely, or not draining properly. It's not the toilet design. If it were, I would have wet floors as would a number of other people who own the same toilet.

I'd urge you to get with your dealer if you aren't happy with the "work arounds" that you've tried.

[Festus2]

Lee -
We have a rear kitchen in our 5th wheel and we have learned (the hard way) that dishes in the rear cupboards are subjected to considerable bouncing around. We've taken steps to ensure that we don't have any more breakages.

Since your toilet is located right at the back of the TT, I am wondering if it too is subjected to a lot of bouncing around when you are travelling and the water that is sitting in the bowl is being "thrown out" of the rimless toilet - similar to our dishes that were "tossed out" of their cabinets!


What about getting a piece of Styrofoam or similar substance, cutting it to fit into the bowl at some point and applying enough pressure to ensure a tight fit? You can always put a short loop in a chunk of cord/rope which would act as a handle and glue a piece of wood or something on the bottom of the Styrofoam as weight to hold it in place.....????

[JRTJH]

This morning I contacted Dometic Customer Support asking for any information they may have regarding the rimless toilet splashing out onto the floor. This is their initial response:

Dear John,
We are sorry to hear of the issue that you are having with your toilet I have sent your information on to our sanitation department for their assistance as they handle their own warranty for this product if for some reason you do not hear from them please feel free to contact us and we will do our best to assist you in getting this matter resolved.

Thanks

We appreciate this opportunity to address your situation, and hope all your future travels are trouble free. Please do not hesitate to contact us any time, to order parts or if we can be of assistance.

Customer Support Center
800 544 4881
edometic.com
Dometic Corp

[ROLIN JOSEPH]

OK, We too own a 21RBS with a washroom at the rear. Our toilet bowl is also ceramic with no rim. Our potholes have also swallowed small cars.
However, we have never found water on the floor. (go figure). We do not even bother to flush the flapper. We just turn off the pump.
.....Now, our problem is coat hangers / clothing jumping off of the rod in the rearmost cupboard. (As John said, it's the bounciest part of the bus).

[JRTJH]

I just received this reply from Dometic. It should be noted that as I stated before, Dometic (and I'm sure also Keystone) do not view the rimless toilet to have a problem. There is no design deficiency, rather an "installation incompatibility" when it is installed in an area where it would be subjected to a "rougher than normal" environment.

Here's the response from Dometic:

Hello John,

I would suggest you do just as you have been doing, turn off the water and flush to remove water from bowl. You are correct in saying the valve will seep for a while after flush, may I suggest turning off the water and flushing at least 1/2 hr before leaving and then flushing the seeped water again just before leaving.

Kind regards,
Heidi McClain
Export Customer Service Specialist
Dometic Corporation, SeaLand
13128 State Route 226, Big Prairie, Ohio 44611
Direct Line: 330-439-5541 - Fax: 330-496-3097 - Email: [email protected]
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The tallest oak in the forest was once just a little nut that held its ground.

[SmittysRV]

Originally Posted by 007stiggs

Maybe installing an in-line shutoff valve in the supply line going to your toilet would do the trick.

Great idea, and I have thought of this to solve my problem with my toilet. I hole different problem that I should start a new thread on so not to High Jack this one.

Originally Posted by Lee

John, Sir if "Having to resort to plastic cling wrap off the bowl of potato salad just seems "inadequate" " to you I'm sorry. All I can tell you is that it WORKS pretty ADEQUATELY for me.

If you read my OP on this subject you will see that I stated that turning off the pump and flushing had already been tried without success.

Adding a shutoff valve, turning off the water pump, doubleflushing will have NO affect removing the residual water that is in the cavity around the rim of the bowl which eventually sloshes into the bowl and then onto the floor.

Lee

Dang, I have the same toilet in my 5er however the bathroom is located up stairs between the front sleeper and the center kitchen area. I have never had water come out of the toilet during travel and always leave about 2 - 3" of water in there for the seal. Maybe time for a different style toilet for those that have the rear bathroom set up... bummer deal, hope it all works out for ya.

[Lee]

Thanks SmittysRV!!

BTW: Beautiful RV!

[suza]

Originally Posted by diugo

How about putting some dry toilet paper in the bowl after you've emptied it of standing water? It might absorb enough liquid to keep the floor dry.

Another possibility is that the water is coming from the roof vent---maybe condensation from the roof is dripping in?

Or an old towel in the bowl

[Javi]

1. if you turn the pump off and flush the toilet, and open the hot and cold faucets it'd be pretty darn improbable that the system would build enough pressure and move enough water to fill the toilet bowl.


2. If thy toilet offends thee cut off the toilet... I replaced the cheap, plastic, toilet designed for a child, the second day I owned my Passport... Cost me a couple of hundred bucks but I got an elongated porcelain bowl that sat high enough that my knees didn't hit my chin when I sat down. Took all of 20 minutes. Didn't even have to haul off the old one... I put it in the box from the new one and sat it on the curb with a For Sale sign on it and someone stole it within five minutes..