Do I or Don’t I?!?

[Uzelessknowledge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

EVERY RV combination is different. Some have "passenger loading" that puts increased weight on the front axle, some have "trailer loading" that puts the trailer load in the rear of the RV while other floorplans put much of the weight forward of the axles. So, EVERY RV combination will require "tweaking" of the tongue weight/hitch equalizer bars to obtain the best towing configuration.

Said simply, some rigs will tow best with the tongue weight in the 10% range while other rigs will "tow horribly" at that ratio and only tow well when the tongue weight is in the 15% range. There is no way to anticipate how any specific rig will tow until it's hitched up, loaded up and actually towed on the highway at typical highway speeds.

That's why there's a "typical tongue weight range of 10-15%. Then there's the "trailer weight" that "might be towed home at close to shipping weight" but in actual use might be anywhere from that weight to GVW. So, if someone "calculates the worst case scenario" then one is virtually guaranteed to be "within those figures....

So, calculate the min/max tongue weights, min/max trailer weights, min/max truck payload rates and then compare the min/max in each category to see if the "factory limits fall within the min/max"...

As an example, if the trailer GVW is 7000 pounds, figure the tongue weight to range in the 700-1050 range. NEVER assume that the trailer will "tow optimally at 10% so the tongue weight will never be above 700 pounds. That's not going to happen in "the real world of towing"....

In the example of a trailer with a 7000 pound GVW, I'd calculate the "worst case" at 1050 pounds + 125 for the hitch, which means a potential for 1175 pounds of "trailer weight" on the truck receiver. Then there's "what's in the truck" in the way of people, equipment added since the truck was first sold, cargo in the bed and other cargo in the cab.

I suppose my "NEVER" is to never assume that the trailer will be towed locally, we don't need water, will always travel with only a couple hundred pounds of camping equipment/trailer goodies and will always be able to tow on level ground with the holding tanks empty, in good weather with light traffic, no crosswinds and no obstacles in or around where we tow.

In other words, prepare for the "worst case" and you'll always have a margin of safety for yourself, those who travel with you and those who you must protect on the highway (other's using the same highway system)….

Thank you for the helpful advice.

[Uzelessknowledge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

When you consider that you'll need a spare tire (not included in the shipping weight), leveling blocks for under the wheels, sewer hose, water hose, pressure regulator, fittings for connecting all that to the campground utilities, battery/batteries for the trailer 12 volt system, lawn chairs, patio lights, grill, propane, books, clothing, pots and pans, dishes, silverware, food, toiletries, sheets, blankets, pillows, rain gear, hiking supplies, "and the list never seems to end"....

We haven't yet mentioned firewood, generator (for those ideal out of the way hiking spots) gas for the generator, axe, saw, tools, a way to secure the truck bed (tonneau or cap) "and that list never seems to end either"....

Most people add somewhere between 750-2000 pounds to their trailer by the time they get finished with the "initial packing" Then, it seems things seldom come out of the trailer, they just get pushed further back in the storage compartment, so the weight continues to grow, sometimes faster than anyone could ever imagine.

Good points. I had thought about them individually, but when you point it out it makes sense. I found a spreadsheet someone put together and it lets you visualize it all better. We try to not pick up extra stuff, but it happens. We don’t usually add things but life happens and at the end of the day everyone gets more than they need.

Thanks for the help.

[Uzelessknowledge]

Boggles my mind how the RV manufactures say their travel trailers are 1/2 ton towable. Next to impossible. I even saw fifth wheels from Grand Design and they say you can tow with a 1/2 ton.
They show a video with a Nissian SUV towing a 30 foot trailer. Hogwash.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

Most of the comments have been helpful and encouraging. I had respected your opinion until the point you treat me like an idiot. To be a jerk and suggest to remove a spare or even the context you suggested it in. I don’t have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen.

You know you say that but we joke a lot about not having a kitchen. We use it so little. We don’t fix elaborate meals and do eat out a lot.

You would think that I’m trying to be reasonable and gather information before making a bad decision. I am never going to buy something that will be too much to tow.
I mean one post above suggested to go used since I’ll want to upgrade. With the numbers I have there isn’t much to upgrade to.

You my be a know it all since you may have been doing this for years. I’m just wanting to start and so far all you’ve made me want to do is not do this because of people like you. If you act this same way in a camp ground then I doubt anyone would want to be around you.

The reason I came here was to see if it was possible and get information from those that have gone before.

I apologize if I hit a cavity and exposed a nerve. My comments, if you note, refer to some people which is a generalization. My comment to you as the OP in the last line was addressed to you. If I didn't make that clear enough I apologize however I stand by my comments.

[MarkEHansen]

I realize you're getting frustrated and I don't want to frustrate you further. One thing that's really hard to get past (it was for me, anyway) is that the RV and Truck sales people seem very sincere but in many cases don't have your best interest in mind - only the sale.

When I purchased my trailer, the salesman really drove me to making the purchase, assuring me it was all fine - when in fact, the combination of the trailer and my vehicle at the time was really unsafe. It was an extremely costly mistake for me. We ended up losing upward of 20K on the tow vehicle, which was less than 1 year old when we traded it in. It really, really hurt.

However, we've now got a tow vehicle that is more than capable to tow not only our trailer, but a future trailer we may someday consider.

Most people here just want to help you not make the same mistake. It can be difficult some times to tell the good from the bad, but please don't give up. There really is a lot of help available here.

Best of luck in your journey.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

Boggles my mind how the RV manufactures say their travel trailers are 1/2 ton towable. Next to impossible. I even saw fifth wheels from Grand Design and they say you can tow with a 1/2 ton.
They show a video with a Nissian SUV towing a 30 foot trailer. Hogwash.

The "half-ton towable" slogan is so routinely false that I'm surprised manufacturers haven't lost a lawsuit over it yet.

There are a lot of videos of things like small trucks towing railroad cars. The trick is that it is a straight rope pull, no rear axle load, because the load has plenty of wheels of its own. In that case, you can take advantage of the high "tow capacity" that all the truck dealers point you to when they tell you "sure, this will pull that." Except that's not the limitation you ever hit first. It's almost always payload, and 12% of heavy is heavy.

[Uzelessknowledge]

Originally Posted by MarkEHansen

I realize you're getting frustrated and I don't want to frustrate you further. One thing that's really hard to get past (it was for me, anyway) is that the RV and Truck sales people seem very sincere but in many cases don't have your best interest in mind - only the sale.

When I purchased my trailer, the salesman really drove me to making the purchase, assuring me it was all fine - when in fact, the combination of the trailer and my vehicle at the time was really unsafe. It was an extremely costly mistake for me. We ended up losing upward of 20K on the tow vehicle, which was less than 1 year old when we traded it in. It really, really hurt.

However, we've now got a tow vehicle that is more than capable to tow not only our trailer, but a future trailer we may someday consider.

Most people here just want to help you not make the same mistake. It can be difficult some times to tell the good from the bad, but please don't give up. There really is a lot of help available here.

Best of luck in your journey.

Yup! That’s the mistake I can’t afford to make. I can do one but not both. I either get a new truck, which I’ll be paying on for a few years, or I can get a trailer that will work with our truck.

We don’t think we want a big trailer, but trying to get something nice. I see some that really look like tin cans on wheels. The insides look cheap.

[Uzelessknowledge]

Ok folks. I finally found the sticker. I swear if it were a snake it would have bit me. I also looked for the hitch sticker. I’m a little confused and hope maybe you guys know more than I do.
So I found in the manual and the link previously posted that the truck is 7200 gvwr. It can tow 15,000 lbs.
I found the rgawr. It’s 3950.
The trailer sticker shows a tongue weight of 1200 and a trailer weight of 12,000. If I’m reading the picture right.

Does this mean that even though the truck can pull a 15000 lb trailer, the hitch can only support 12,000? That sucks. That takes the trailer from 7,000 to 4,800.

Can one of y’all confirm?

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-...ue_percentage=

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-...ue_percentage=

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

Most of the comments have been helpful and encouraging. I had respected your opinion until the point you treat me like an idiot. To be a jerk and suggest to remove a spare or even the context you suggested it in. I don’t have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen.

You know you say that but we joke a lot about not having a kitchen. We use it so little. We don’t fix elaborate meals and do eat out a lot.

You would think that I’m trying to be reasonable and gather information before making a bad decision. I am never going to buy something that will be too much to tow.
I mean one post above suggested to go used since I’ll want to upgrade. With the numbers I have there isn’t much to upgrade to.

You my be a know it all since you may have been doing this for years. I’m just wanting to start and so far all you’ve made me want to do is not do this because of people like you. If you act this same way in a camp ground then I doubt anyone would want to be around you.

The reason I came here was to see if it was possible and get information from those that have gone before.

Travis I know that trying to determine proper truck and trailer combos while trying to make the right decision is difficult....extremely difficult. You are to be commended for your choice to try to investigate before seeing the "salesmen"; once in that circus you will be told most anything and 90% of it untrue. And, it is very frustrating...I know.

To some that tow the weights, safety etc., when they conflict with what they need, want or have, are just a joke....if you can pull it and the bumper doesn't fall off you're golden - that's absolutely wrong. The weights are very straightforward if you look at them and are willing to abide by them and not be swayed by "wants", cutting corners, saving money etc. They are what they are and mean what they mean. You are doing the right thing.

That said, most of the folks on this forum want to help. More importantly they want to keep you safe, help you make a good decision and absolutely don't want you to buy a trailer then either find you can't tow it or you wreck it due to some overweight condition. If anyone tells you to ignore the weight placard on the driver door pillar....you can turn that advice off right then.

I've posted about how the RVing experience, and things in the trailer will grow; and it/they will. Keep that in mind as you plan. Please let those that have gone before try to save you some of the ups, downs, bumps and lost money we have experienced. The answers may not be what you want to hear, expect or may conflict with a brochure or salesman....but, what you will find is info from folks that have already been down that road; lost their shirts on new trucks, new trailers, smaller trailers etc.

On these forums there are many, many folks that come in that have done, did or want to do crazy things by normal standards. Some rationalize actions to "get what they want" despite everything saying otherwise. Those are the folks that Marshall was alluding to - not you. He has your best interests at heart, as do we all. Don't get frustrated and give up. That trailer is out there and a new world is waiting for you. Just have patience, listen, investigate, learn and you will find the perfect RV for that truck.....and we will help. Good luck in your search.

[Uzelessknowledge]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I apologize if I hit a cavity and exposed a nerve. My comments, if you note, refer to some people which is a generalization. My comment to you as the OP in the last line was addressed to you. If I didn't make that clear enough I apologize however I stand by my comments.

I understand. I took it like you were generalizing but really talking to me. Maybe I misunderstood.

I’m truly seeking help so that I don’t make a buying mistake or endanger my wife and I.

[Uzelessknowledge]

Originally Posted by sourdough

To some that tow the weights, safety etc., when they conflict with what they need, want or have, are just a joke....if you can pull it and the bumper doesn't fall off you're golden - that's absolutely wrong. The weights are very straightforward if you look at them and are willing to abide by them and not be swayed by "wants", cutting corners, saving money etc. They are what they are and mean what they mean. You are doing the right thing.
Good luck in your search.

Thank you. Completely understand. There are ways to say thing and ways not to. You used your words very well.

I completely understand. My questions may have come across wrong. I don’t want to cut corners. Just trying to understand. Just like I never thought about the water in the water heater. It counts to. I mean every little thing counts.

My biggest confusion is in the numbers. I really want to stay safe. See my last post. I’m not sure now if I need to be under 7000 or 4800.

Yes, I know not to believe a salesman. I always do my research. Been burned before.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

I understand. I took it like you were generalizing but really talking to me. Maybe I misunderstood.

I’m truly seeking help so that I don’t make a buying mistake or endanger my wife and I.

I applaud you for doing the right thing and placing safety first. If I were targeting you in my comment then I would have quoted your post. I quoted someone else's post and was expanding my thoughts on what they said, hence the "to the OP" comment at the end.

Believe me most of us (me included) have been in the exact same spot. You will get a lot of the same type comments from those of us who have BTDtT GTTS. We will try to drive the point home so you or the next in line doesn't make the same mistake we did.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

Ok folks. I finally found the sticker. I swear if it were a snake it would have bit me. I also looked for the hitch sticker. I’m a little confused and hope maybe you guys know more than I do.
So I found in the manual and the link previously posted that the truck is 7200 gvwr. It can tow 15,000 lbs.
I found the rgawr. It’s 3950.
The trailer sticker shows a tongue weight of 1200 and a trailer weight of 12,000. If I’m reading the picture right.

Does this mean that even though the truck can pull a 15000 lb trailer, the hitch can only support 12,000? That sucks. That takes the trailer from 7,000 to 4,800.

Forget the 15,000 number, it's never the one you will exceed first.

The trailer sticker is also misleading -- everything is dry weight, which is stripped as it came from the factory: no battery, no propane, no spare, no hitch, no contents. Do your first pass with the maximum weight of the trailer and compute the tongue weight as about 12% of that.

The important number on the truck is payload, which should also be on the sticker you found. Add up the computed tongue weight, passengers, pets, anything else you will carry in the truck. You can't exceed that figure, and should optimally have a 15% safety margin. If you are over, decide whether you can conscientiously keep your trailer under its max capacity (and it would need to be way under to get a 15% safety margin).

If you are inside that limit, then you use the rear and front axle limits to tune your weight-distributing hitch so you don't needlessly overload one axle. But keep in mind your passengers tend to load the front axle, so don't expect to be able to borrow a lot of headroom there for the trailer.

Then make sure the measured hitch weight doesn't exceed the physical hitch. I've attached a photo (from the F-150 I traded in) of what the hitch label will probably look like. There's not much context, but this is looking straight upwards. Just use your selfie lens to snap a photo of it.

Once the static numbers match up, you have to do an actual weigh and make sure you haven't made any bad assumptions.

[JRTJH]

Travis,

To answer your question about the receiver rating. It's rated at 12,000/1200 pounds. That receiver is bolted under a number of different vehicles. On some, with a GCWR of 10,000, some with a GCWR of 12,500, some with a GCWR of 15,000, some with a GCWR of 18,500 pounds.

On some of those vehicles, the vehicle is the limiting factor, on others, the receiver is the limiting factor.

At any rate, the receiver rating is "for the receiver" not for the vehicle it's mounted on.

[Uzelessknowledge]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Forget the 15,000 number, it's never the one you will exceed first.
The important number on the truck is payload, which should also be on the sticker you found. Add up the computed tongue weight, passengers, pets, anything else you will carry in the truck. You can't exceed that figure, and should optimally have a 15% safety margin. If you are over, decide whether you can conscientiously keep your trailer under its max capacity (and it would need to be way under to get a 15% safety margin).

That’s where I’m screwed. Payload is 1,500.
I think some of this has to do with the wheels. They’re 22”. Wonder if I had gotten different wheels and tires of the payload would be more.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

That’s where I’m screwed. Payload is 1,500.
I think some of this has to do with the wheels. They’re 22”. Wonder if I had gotten different wheels and tires of the payload would be more.

Typically the payload for 1/2 ton trucks is xxxx based on frame, springs, brakes etc. So the bigger numbers you see for payload are typically standard cab, 2 wheel drive base models. The further up the luxury line you go the less payload.

That same xxxx number on the base module gets whittled away with addition of the crew cab, leather seats, 4 wheel drive transfer case and front differential/axles, power seat and window hardware, carpets, center consoles, and all the electronics and all the rest of the "shiny things" they can stuff inside.

I learned this lesson when we bought our Ford F150 King Ranch.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

That’s where I’m screwed. Payload is 1,500.
I think some of this has to do with the wheels. They’re 22”. Wonder if I had gotten different wheels and tires of the payload would be more.

Probably not. The payload is a direct result of the GVW minus truck weight (yours at 7200 is typical of a half ton truck) and the payload usually ranges from 1400-1700. So you're "right in the middle of typical".

As for tire/wheel size, your 22" wheels with skinny tires are the same diameter as the 265 70R 17 (which is your spare) and very close to the same weight, so there's negligible difference in weight between the tire/wheel packages.

Having a different wheel package would not have increased the truck GVW, so there would have been very little, if any increase in payload.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

That’s where I’m screwed. Payload is 1,500.

I'm not familiar with your trailer model, but if the max weight is 12,000 I'm not at all surprised.

I did this paper dance last year with our "new" 8,800 max GVWR trailer ("half ton towable") and failed it with my F-150, 1,726 payload. I had to trade up to an F-250, 3,460 payload. (Would have gone F-350, but my wife refused to deal with diesel.)

It looks like you are going to have to replace one or the other. My own preference was the truck, because it was some years old and I really liked the new trailer. I considered it minimum accommodations for two: bed, dinette, pantry, two recliners, and a shower I could fit in to use. To get something I could have pulled safely with an F-150 I would have had to sacrifice more than I wanted.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

That’s where I’m screwed. Payload is 1,500.
I think some of this has to do with the wheels. They’re 22”. Wonder if I had gotten different wheels and tires of the payload would be more.

A 1500 lb. payload doesn't necessarily screw you but it does limit choices. The payload number, if from the driver door placard, would be based on the OE equipment. Did that truck come with 22" wheels? Not many do from the factory nor would it make any appreciable difference.

The trailer you were looking at was 6400gvw. If you loaded that trailer to gvw you would have approx. 768 on the tongue. That leaves you 732 left for "stuff"; good wdh - 120 lbs., = 612 lbs. left. From that you have to deduct people, animals, tools, ice chests, bbq pits, firewood, wood blocks, etc. It goes on and on. If you add in a 10% cushion it gets pretty skinny on the number side.

Here's the deal on that; I know you are getting frustrated. I know this is kind of a pain (a real pain if not used to it). That trailer and that truck are a tight fit weight wise if you plan on looking at max (which you should) numbers. The variables are the "people weight" and what you want/plan to bring with you. How heavy do you go? Realize the trailer has a 1743lb. cargo capacity...pretty large for that size trailer. Where do you fit in that? I carry say 1300lbs in mine but I do carry other items in my truck. If you go light (whatever that means) you might be able to make the truck work but then limit you to what you take, who you take, how you load. BTDT and hated it (with a payload just slightly above that, but in full disclosure a larger trailer). Study the numbers; understand the weights; know your needs/wants. They all will help you arrive at the proper decision.

Shows 7200 for gvw, you might want to weigh it before loading to see what kind of leeway you have with that.

[Uzelessknowledge]

Originally Posted by sourdough

BTDT and hated it (with a payload just slightly above that, but in full disclosure a larger trailer)

What is BTDT?

Yes, came with the 22s.