Full-timing & Warranties

[WCW]

Originally Posted by reubenray

In the near future we are thinking of upgrading and go full-time. We have not decided yet on doing this in a motorhome or fifth wheel. One thing I want is at least a 40" HDTV. I have been digging, but not finding out much on what sizes are in Keystone's fivers.

Any ideas?

Forgive me for changing the subject but does Keystone offer a fifth wheel with a warranty that covers units used for full-timing? Also do extended warranties cover full-time use? This is important to me.

Moderator's Note -- See "Reason for Editing" below.

[geo]

WCW -

When we first ordered and purchased our Alpine in May 2010, the Alpine was advertised and referenced on the Keystone Website as a "Full-timers Fifth Wheel". However, the warranty was void if one full-timed in it. I believe it was around November 2010 when the words "Full-time" dropped from the Alpine advertising.

There are several different extended warranties that you would have to consider each individually to learn which ones covered full-timing as which ones don't. Just like "full-timer's insurance", there are different policies that cover different occurances.

As "they" say, it pays to shop around.

Ron

[mikell]

Don't ask don't tell. We moved into our Alpine 2 years ago last week and never mentioned we were full timing they didn't ask. Only had a couple of minor issues that a local dealer took care of. So if it's the unit you want go for it and if it needs service stay in a motel or pay for it yourself.

[laidback]

I'm not for sure, but I think the Sanibel by prime time is covered for full-timing. They do have a 2yr warranty.

[mazboy123]

a warranty is a warranty.
nevery had issues with keystone on our montana. and believe me we've been to lots of dealers across the country and canada.

[Outbackmel]

Agree 100% with that. Why is it anyone's business how you choose to use your rv? If asked, I would tell that person to buzz off. What? You can't change your mind and lifestyle? Are you kidding me?!
Component warranties are for a limited time, not use. Would you buy an RV that allowed refer on propane only x days a month? Likely not.
Maybe you can use the sewer system only 3 times a year and summer months or warranty is voided.
Put some thought behind the thought and see how ridiculous it sounds.

[Festus2]

Outbackmel -
It seems that Keystone makes it their business, through their warranty, to exlude certain types of usage by the owner. In my Keystone manual, it states that "trailers used for business, rental, commercial, residential, or disaster relief purposes, or any purposes other than recreational travel and family camping" --- the warranty shall not apply to these kinds of uses.
To me, this means that the one-year Keystone warranty would be void if you are using your RV to live in full-time. I suppose you could get coverage for that year through some other insurance company but if something went wrong in that first year and it was determined that you are using it as a permanent residence, you would be on your own as far as Keystone is concerned.

The manual further states - in a sidebar - that "Your unit is a recreational vehicle and not intended, nor manufacturred, as a permanent residence".

So it would seem that, as far as Keystone is concerned, they are telling you that if you are full-timing in a Keystone RV, you have no warranty claim with them during that first year.

The use of other vehicles may also be restricted by insurance companies. If, for example, I were to use my car for anything else other than "for pleasure", any claim that I might make may not be covered. It is insured for pleasure use only so the insurance company is telling me they won't cover me if I use it for anything else - driving to work, for example. If I were to use it going to and from work (which doesn't apply to me) then my insurance would be different. So again, insurance companies make it their business to know how you are going to be using something be it a car, an RV, or even many products. And if you don't follow their rules, well you know the consequences.

[Outbackmel]

Are there documented legal precedents won by Keystone that back up their statements? Just because a company mantra dictates something, it is not always favorably supported by the judicial process here in the USA. So what defines " full timing"? 3 months daily use, a full year of daily use, movement of the RV?
I do not full time and unless my wife kicks me to the curb, not planning to in this lifetime. I just cannot accept or believe good attorneys could not shake any major corporation to it's core on limited use. Let's hear from those who went to court and lost based on " full timing" only. Manuals are only guides. Written contracts with specific agreed upon terms are the only tried and true agreements. Suppose you never received a manual? Did you sign a dealer acknowledgement waiving rights as a " full timer"? I know I never did. Suppose you, buy, later sell. Are you required to get written acknowledgement the party understands all problems normally under warranty are now null and void for repair?! If you did not, are YOU liable?
I guess we will all have to have our RV's crushed as junk.
Ok, let's see where this goes.

[JRTJH]

State Farm offers a discount on vehicles driven less than 7500 miles a year. How do they know if I qualify for the discount? They send me an affidavit to complete each 6 months before they will renew the policy. My wife usually drives less than 7500 a year so we were getting the discount. This last 6 month policy, we filled out the mileage, sent it in and State Farm wrote us a "nice letter" informing us that we no longer qualified for the 7500 mile discount because this last 2 policy periods (12 months) mileage on the insured vehicle was recorded as 8725 miles. So much for the discount. They were nice enough to say that if our driving habits change and we find we again qualify, to contact our insurance agent for information on how to reapply for the discount. <sigh>

Sure we could have just "lied" (slightly) on the form, but with my luck, if we'd have had an accident the day after and filed a claim, the first thing the adjuster would do is record the damage and mileage and who knows what State Farm would do with the results. It's kind of hard to go 1300 miles in one or 2 days as "old people" <sigh> LOL

I'm sure Keystone, if they want to do some snooping around, on a high dollar warranty claim, such as a buyout for multiple problems, etc, could find a way to deny it if they started really looking. I don't think it would be in their financial interest to spend the money to prove "full timing" for typical waranty work, but with expensive claims? I wouldn't want to be the test case.

If I wouldn't "trust" Dicor to honor a claim on the roof that I "slit to fix a screw" how could I "trust" Keystone to do the same..... Yeah, call me cynical, but I find it hard to trust a company to look the other way when it's not in their best interest....

[Festus2]

Outbackmel -
I have no idea what is the legal definition of full-timing, any of the legalities regarding statements made in owner's manuals or any court cases involving RV manufacturers and full-timers. All I was trying to do was to point out that Keystone has indicated, in their owner's manual, that their RV's are not intended for permanent residence and that the warranty will not cover any claims made by full-timers during that first year. Whether this is legal or not I will leave that up to the lawyers and judges.

There are numerous other warranty exclusions stated in their manual and it is up to the owner to know what they are. The dealer isn't going to go over them with you - he couldn't care less. I am going by the premise that ignorance of the law (or warranty exclusions) is not an excuse for breaking it. So, for me, I'd rather not test these provisions and exclusions by saying, "I've never seen an Owner's Manual" or "Nobody ever told me".

Just call me Mr. Casper Milquetoast.

[SAD]

Keystone can include or exclude whatever they want. It's their warranty, not yours.

You can choose to buy whatever product you want - the information is provided to you in advance to review.

"You" - generic terms -> the consumer

[red71roadrunner]

We asked prior to purchasing our Montana and were told by keystone it was a full time 5er with warranty

[Brantlaker]

Did you get it in writing???? Words are easy to say when trying to sell a RV,Boat, Car or Truck. It is just your word against there's. When you hear the words Trust Me RUN as fast as you can.