No more Andersen for me, unfortunately

[fluis]

Hey folks.

I know this to be extremely controversial, but I just wanted to share my experience.

I've purchased a Cougar 24RDS in January, to be picked up in end of March.
At the time, after exhausting research, I've decided to go with an Andersen Ultimate Hitch attached to a goose ball.

No brainer. I like how light it is, how fast I can install or remove from the bed and will have the bed free for when I'm at the campsite to go around.
Dealership was super on board, manager said himself was a huge fan of Andersen. This was all in January.

Now we are in March. Went to the dealership to sign the papers, manager said all dealerships received a memo from Keystone that claims Lippert will no longer accept warranty claims of chassis failure if the person is using an Andersen Hitch (or any other goose neck adapter OTHER THAN Reese Goose Box).

It says in the memo that the decision was taken because "over the past couple of years we have noticed an increase in the number of frame failures and sidewall damage on fifth wheels that use the Anderson Goose Neck Adapter".

I know it is very unlikely that an Andersen Ultimate Hitch will cause extra stress on the frame, and the Reese Goose Box will not. To me, looking at the physics of things, it seems that the Goose Box will actually exert more force to the front of the frame than the Andersen, but I'm no engineer.

I was even willing to just use the Andersen and risk it, but then I was thinking I don't want to get stuck between an eventual unnaproved warranty claim from Keystone and the fine print of the Andersen multimillion dollar warranty that is supposed to cover this claims.

I absolutely NEED the space and don't want a 300 pound hitch in my bed, I could use the payload for other things. Not to mention if the hitch is super heavy I'd never remove it, it would live there forever.

So to my eyes, I have 2 options:
- Reese Goose Box (although I'm actually afraid of the frame cracking now) due to it's design, and it's super expensive here in Canada.
- Demco Recon - no modifications required, 3 parts disassemble, each part 47 pounds, cheaper than Andersen.

Attached below is a copy of the memo, in case someone is curious.

[RamminTime]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I assume this means all Andersen style hitches? I have the Ultimate 5th wheel connection in the rail mount. When they use the term gooseneck adapter it seems a bit confusing. I love the hitch but may need to start looking for a replacement.

[chuckster57]

I was waiting for a copy of that memo, Thanks for posting.

[RamminTime]

I was curious to Andersen’s thoughts on this. Very quickly this was the reply:

“We are aware of the situation and have come up with a solution. If any such damage were to happen to your trailer you would have to contact the trailer manufacturer, get a written statement saying the manufacturer won’t cover the damage and provide this statement to us. Once provided, our customer service team will review the claim and be in contact with you regarding the situation. If you have any other questions regarding this, I have included the expanded warranty link below. You are free to take a look. If you have any other questions, feel free to call the number below.

https://help.andersenhitches.com/ult...ction-warranty



Customer Service 2
[email protected]
Off: 208-523-6460 l Fax:208-523-6562”

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RamminTime

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I assume this means all Andersen style hitches? I have the Ultimate 5th wheel connection in the rail mount. When they use the term gooseneck adapter it seems a bit confusing. I love the hitch but may need to start looking for a replacement.

If the Anderson hitch has a ball on top and the red adapter that fits on the pinbox, it doesn't much matter if it's a bed rail attachment or a "gooseball attachment" at the bottom of the hitch. All of them are covered by the memo and will be excluded.

Key statements in the Keystone Memo to Dealers:

"none of which have ever been “authorized” or “approved for use” by Keystone, except for the Reese Goose Box and the Anderson Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection Goose Neck Adapter. Over the past couple of years we have noticed an increase in the number of frame failures and sidewall damage on fifth wheels that use the Anderson Goose Neck Adapter. "

"Anderson Goose Neck Adapters are no longer authorized or approved for use on Keystone, Dutchmen or CrossRoads products."

"we are simply stating that if Anderson Adapter is used by a customer with a Keystone fifth wheel and later damage or loss occurs to the fifth wheel as a result of using the Anderson Adapter, Keystone will not warrant the same or cover the cost of any such damage or loss."

"Any Anderson Goose Neck Adapters installed after March 15, 2021, will not be eligible for warranty consideration."

Excluding the Reese Gooseneck system, it looks like, at least for the time being, that Keystone will "honor frame warranty issues on trailers towed by the Anderson Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection Goose Neck Adapter if the owner installed it prior to March 15, 2021, but not with any other gooseneck hitch system. That "grandfather clause" might disappear at any time, so it may not be a good idea to rush out to buy one and backdate the purchase receipt a week to get in "under the deadline".....

[gkainz]

Yeah - I know - not new but ... Hmmm, sure makes one wonder if this little tidbit of news has ANYTHING to do with "Lippert won't cover damage if you use an Andersen hitch but we will cover if you use the Reese Goose box"

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...127893378.html

[MotoDad293]

Originally Posted by fluis

I know it is very unlikely that an Andersen Ultimate Hitch will cause extra stress on the frame, and the Reese Goose Box will not. To me, looking at the physics of things, it seems that the Goose Box will actually exert more force to the front of the frame than the Andersen, but I'm no engineer.

<SNIP>

So to my eyes, I have 2 options:
- Reese Goose Box (although I'm actually afraid of the frame cracking now) due to it's design, and it's super expensive here in Canada.

So I am going to call out these statements about the Goosebox as silly. Not because I use the Goosebox (but I do).

Why?

Well the Goosebox mounts to the fifth wheel frame identically to how the stock kingpin assembly does. The basic shape and how the forces move from the attachment points to the wings of the frame are exactly the same. This is why Lippert will maintain the factory warranty with the gooseboox.

With adapters such as the Anderson Ultimate Hitch, you have multiple points of failure or articulation.

When I was deciding to go fifth wheel over bumper pull, this a major concern for me because, I too, needed all of my bed space when not hooked up to the trailer. We frequently drop our Raptor at one location, pull dirt bikes out of its garage and load them in the bed of the truck to go to a track or something not convenient to bring the 5er.

I talked with several friends with the Anderson. On had a bent arm and the other told me the frame kinda spins on the bed floor. Now his bed is all trashed and had to put a pad down a weld a tab to keep it from moving. Both steered me toward the goosebox.

Now I have a tad over 10k towing my '21 Raptor that I had the dealer install before I took delivery and have had no issues!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by MotoDad293

So I am going to call out these statements about the Goosebox as silly. Not because I use the Goosebox (but I do).

Why?

Well the Goosebox mounts to the fifth wheel frame identically to how the stock kingpin assembly does. The basic shape and how the forces move from the attachment points to the wings of the frame are exactly the same. This is why Lippert will maintain the factory warranty with the gooseboox.

With adapters such as the Anderson Ultimate Hitch, you have multiple points of failure or articulation.

When I was deciding to go fifth wheel over bumper pull, this a major concern for me because, I too, needed all of my bed space when not hooked up to the trailer. We frequently drop our Raptor at one location, pull dirt bikes out of its garage and load them in the bed of the truck to go to a track or something not convenient to bring the 5er.

I talked with several friends with the Anderson. On had a bent arm and the other told me the frame kinda spins on the bed floor. Now his bed is all trashed and had to put a pad down a weld a tab to keep it from moving. Both steered me toward the goosebox.

Now I have a tad over 10k towing my '21 Raptor that I had the dealer install before I took delivery and have had no issues!

Interesting... always "a friend" and not first hand. Spinning? I would love to see some REAL pictures of a destroyed bed using an Anderson Ultimate hitch. I would also like to say that MANY of the reports of cracked frames were not on campers hitched to an Anderson Ultimate but to conventional 5th wheel hitches. Looks like Lippert is trying to make a way out of fixing all those cracked frames.

[MotoDad293]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Interesting... always "a friend" and not first hand. Spinning? I would love to see some REAL pictures of a destroyed bed using an Anderson Ultimate hitch. I would also like to say that MANY of the reports of cracked frames were not on campers hitched to an Anderson Ultimate but to conventional 5th wheel hitches. Looks like Lippert is trying to make a way out of fixing all those cracked frames.

Sorry for the miss-wording on the first issue.

The Anderson frame was 'swiveling' which caused dents, scratches and divots into the the bed floor. This was not just a 'not first hand' thing. I saw the damage. BTW, Anderson is well aware of this issue, there own support forum has many posts about it. In fact, they have an anti-slip kit they now sell to help prevent the situation or minimize the damage it causes.

https://andersenhitches.com/collecti...eel-connection

As for the other one, yes, that was maybe not first hand. The owner with the bent support on his Anderson, told me about but I did not see his Anderson as he had his kingpin in because he sent the Anderson back to the manufacturer for inspection. Which did not sound cheap.....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by MotoDad293

So I am going to call out these statements about the Goosebox as silly. Not because I use the Goosebox (but I do).

Why?

Well the Goosebox mounts to the fifth wheel frame identically to how the stock kingpin assembly does. The basic shape and how the forces move from the attachment points to the wings of the frame are exactly the same. This is why Lippert will maintain the factory warranty with the gooseboox.

With adapters such as the Anderson Ultimate Hitch, you have multiple points of failure or articulation.

When I was deciding to go fifth wheel over bumper pull, this a major concern for me because, I too, needed all of my bed space when not hooked up to the trailer. We frequently drop our Raptor at one location, pull dirt bikes out of its garage and load them in the bed of the truck to go to a track or something not convenient to bring the 5er.

I talked with several friends with the Anderson. On had a bent arm and the other told me the frame kinda spins on the bed floor. Now his bed is all trashed and had to put a pad down a weld a tab to keep it from moving. Both steered me toward the goosebox.

Now I have a tad over 10k towing my '21 Raptor that I had the dealer install before I took delivery and have had no issues!

Folks need to get whatever it is that they like and are comfortable with as a 5th wheel hitch. I would disagree with the statements in red.

The Andersen uses the factory pin box so therefore uses the same "wings" on the trailer as any other 5th wheel hitch. The Andersen sits at the same height as a regular 5th wheel hitch so no additional, torsional strain is placed on the trailer frame over what a traditional 5th wheel hitch would place. The Goose Box does "use" the same wings on the trailer but it is basically the same concept as a perpendicular goose neck (hence "Goose Box") only it takes the height of the RV above the bed of the truck and tries to cover that distance at an angle vs straight up and down like a goose neck. The additional stress caused by that "neck" extending from the bottom of the RV to the bed of the trailer is literally the same as a goose neck.

I looked at the Goose Box long and hard but could not find a single benefit to it except Lippert said their warranty would cover it. It offers nothing over the Andersen that I could determine and, IMO, exerts more strain and twist on the RV frame than the Andersen, Pull Rite or normal 5th wheel hitch. By looking at the Goose Box you can also see how bed rail clearance could be a factor due to the angle and design of the goose box. I believe I did read that they had changed the design to lessen the interference.

As far as Andersen failures, I've never seen one. I am looking out my window at the moment at 3 of them. I will pass that many more as I drive to the end of this road. No failures and not one of the owners has anything bad to say about them. As far as one "spinning" on the mount....it wasn't installed/maintained properly. Mine can't spin, I have attachments in the front 2 side pucks that prohibit that. If you don't use those use rail attachments. I would never dream of just tightening the hitch down on the ball in the bed then wait to "see what happens".

IMO Lippert's refusal to cover the Andersen under warranty is more a result of the "peas in a pod" relationship between Lippert and Reese along with the seeming rebellious nature of Andersen leadership. JMO/YMMV I'm sure.

[MotoDad293]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I looked at the Goose Box long and hard but could not find a single benefit to it except Lippert said their warranty would cover it. It offers nothing over the Andersen that I could determine and, IMO, exerts more strain and twist on the RV frame than the Andersen, Pull Rite or normal 5th wheel hitch. By looking at the Goose Box you can also see how bed rail clearance could be a factor due to the angle and design of the goose box. I believe I did read that they had changed the design to lessen the interference.

Incorrect about the bed rail clearance. I too was concerned about that but turned out to be more clearance than a standard kingpin setup.

Here are pictures of mine. This is the best I have that shows this for now. However, I will be hooked up and traveling this weekend. I should also be seeing both of the friends with the Anderson that have had the issues. I will try to get pictures of theirs as well.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by MotoDad293

Incorrect about the bed rail clearance. I too was concerned about that but turned out to be more clearance than a standard kingpin setup.

Here are pictures of mine. This is the best I have that shows this for now. However, I will be hooked up and traveling this weekend. I should also be seeing both of the friends with the Anderson that have had the issues. I will try to get pictures of theirs as well.

Attachment 32577
Attachment 32578

That’s a big trailer...how does it handle with the srw ?

[fluis]

It is known and official that Lippert manufactures the Goose Box for Reese, so it would make absolutely no sense for them to claim incompatibility between their own 2 products unless they wanted to cease the Reese production.

This is obviously not the case with Andersen. Lippert at some point claimed Andersen did not provide parts for them to run tests, which I doubt would be a problem.

I don't think the Andersen would cause more failures in comparison to Reese's Goose Box. If anything, due to design, I'd assume the other way around, but again, I am not an engineer.

In the end, it doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong. I do love the Andersen hitch, but I don't want to get stuck in between 2 companies fighting with me to say who's to blame for an eventual crack in the frame.

It's like they say, it doesn't matter who wins the fight, customers will loose because we are the weak link in the chain (talking $$$).

[wiredgeorge]

I don't believe there is much chance of spinning the lower part of the Anderson Ultimate if the bolts that retain it to the ball and bed are torqued to spec. I have used an Anderson Ultimate for years and never had a hint of spinning. Guess some folks have if Anderson is selling a rubber (or whatever) mat.

[jasin1]

How long is the frame warranty for? If it’s out of warranty for people that already own them it’s a moot point I would think.

[fluis]

Originally Posted by jasin1

How long is the frame warranty for? If it’s out of warranty for people that already own them it’s a mute point I would think

3 years structural warranty for Cougars, but I’m getting extended service contact as well.

Obviously if it was out of warranty this would not matter.

[RamminTime]

Originally Posted by fluis

3 years structural warranty for Cougars, but I’m getting extended service contact as well.

Obviously if it was out of warranty this would not matter.

Ditto, I’m going to give the Demco Recon a try. I just ordered it up and it should be here by end of week. Like you that’s the last thing I want to do is be in the middle of two companies trying to reject a warranty claim. Lesson learned for me, oh well.

[MotoDad293]

Originally Posted by jasin1

That’s a big trailer...how does it handle with the srw ?

It is the Raptor 351. I think that is the smallest Raptor @ 39 feet.

The F350 SRW hauls it fine. No issues with bucking or swaying. I have taken it over several mtn passes in the wind and rain and honestly hardly even noticed. The biggest complaint is fuel economy. In CA, it is not a big deal because we are limited to 55 when towing but as soon as I get out of CA and can do the same speed limit as the cars, the fuel economy drops to about 9mpg.

My truck is currently 100% stock but I am considering wider tires and air bags to ensure better stability.

If It went to a toyhauler over 40 foot, I would have considered a DRW.

[jasin1]

They probably don’t cover damage caused by flying saucers either ...it seems like the Anderson has been a proven design from what I’ve read on here...until today I’ve never heard anything bad... seems like a good way to advertise the Reese version by announcing that you won’t cover the Anderson....who is going to report it ? Will the dealers have to say that they witnessed you pulling in with a Anderson and notate every customer that has them on their permanent record ??

I think if I needed the space in my truck i would keep a cheap regular fifth wheel hitch on hand or borrow a buddys if and when I ever had to take the rv back to the dealer... just in case they are watching... probably will never be an issue.. if you buy a goose box then if you try and sell your fifth wheel you could limit your buying pool unless it was traded

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by RamminTime

Ditto, I’m going to give the Demco Recon a try. I just ordered it up and it should be here by end of week. Like you that’s the last thing I want to do is be in the middle of two companies trying to reject a warranty claim. Lesson learned for me, oh well.

Does Lippert authorize the Demco recon?