F-350 and F-450

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Leave it to someone that has nothing better to do than sit at a screen and dig into the depths of stuff

I wouldn't have known the difference if you didn't tell me..I guess I can sleep better now

At the risk of offending someone;

THIS POST IS SARCASTIC!!!

The "selling point between the two trucks" (at least for me) became the F450 when Ford dropped the "wide stance front suspension" option for the F350. The improved turn radius made driving the wide stance truck much easier to maneuver in parking lots and campgrounds.

First, retirement does have some perks.... That said, I went through all the ordering information when we were considering (well, I say "we" but it was really, "me") upgrading to a larger fifth wheel and was comparing what I'd buy if I did upgrade. For me, in Michigan, it would be the F350 dually over the F450 (even with the lack of wide stance front suspension)... But that all became a moot point when "the other half of we" who never said a word, but after 51 years, I knew EXACTLY what her eyes intended to say, vetoed the decision without raising her hand or saying a word....

So, I'm still driving an F250 and towing a "smaller fifth wheel"...

PS: I was surprised to learn the difference between the REESE built OEM puck system and the REESE marketed Aftermarket puck system.... Same end function but significantly decreased ratings for the Aftermarket... No idea about actual "strength at lower levels" and/or if that might affect longivity/reliability of the two piece system when used to tow a trailer under 20,000 pounds. The two (OEM/Aftermarket) may have identical profiles at the lower weight use.... IDK

[Javi]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Leave it to someone that has nothing better to do than sit at a screen and dig into the depths of stuff

I wouldn't have known the difference if you didn't tell me..I guess I can sleep better now

At the risk of offending someone;

THIS POST IS SARCASTIC!!!

I was going to ask him where he got that information, when we installed the Ford Puck under bed mount in my '12 we had to raise the bed and it was 4 pieces that bolted together, the OEM was welded but that was the only difference. As to the rating it was rated at the same as the welded unit by Reese...and when I bought the '15 F350 the dealer swapped it to the new truck.

I guess they've changed

[JRTJH]

From the Ford website: https://shop.ford.com/build/superdut...RW.350.CBC.%5D

The 5th-Wheel/Gooseneck Trailer Tow Prep Package is standard on all F-450 models; available on F-250 and F-350 models. Compatible with the factory orderable gooseneck, dual gooseneck, 18K 5th-wheel, and 27.5K 5th-wheel hitch kits*.

From the etrailer website: https://www.etrailer.com/Gooseneck-H...P30138-26.html

Ford F-350 Super Duty - Reese Elite Series Under-Bed Gooseneck Trailer Hitch for Ford Super Duty - 25,000 lbs
Reese Below the Bed Removable Ball - Stores in Truck Manual Ball Removal
25000 lbs GTW
In Bed Release
2-5/16 Hitch Ball
6250 lbs TW

There are notes at both the Reese and eTrailer websites that if the truck does not have "welded hitch brackets" on the frame, then "bolt on hitch brackets" must be ordered and used. No idea if that might also affect the rating for the underbed components. At any rate, it's available both OEM and aftermarket, both built by REESE and the bolt together system is not rated as high as the welded system.

[BeagleMan]

Ok, now you've lost me. What the devil dog is a Puck? Excuse my ignorance. The one I have built, in both models, I have the 5th wheel hitch package and the 5th Wheel Hitch Kit prep for 27,500lbs. Is it one or the other? Did I over build? Redundant choices? Whats the difference in the 2?

[Javi]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

From the Ford website: https://shop.ford.com/build/superdut...RW.350.CBC.%5D

The 5th-Wheel/Gooseneck Trailer Tow Prep Package is standard on all F-450 models; available on F-250 and F-350 models. Compatible with the factory orderable gooseneck, dual gooseneck, 18K 5th-wheel, and 27.5K 5th-wheel hitch kits*.

From the etrailer website: https://www.etrailer.com/Gooseneck-H...P30138-26.html

Ford F-350 Super Duty - Reese Elite Series Under-Bed Gooseneck Trailer Hitch for Ford Super Duty - 25,000 lbs
Reese Below the Bed Removable Ball - Stores in Truck Manual Ball Removal
25000 lbs GTW
In Bed Release
2-5/16 Hitch Ball
6250 lbs TW

There are notes at both the Reese and eTrailer websites that if the truck does not have "welded hitch brackets" on the frame, then "bolt on hitch brackets" must be ordered and used. No idea if that might also affect the rating for the underbed components. At any rate, it's available both OEM and aftermarket, both built by REESE and the bolt together system is not rated as high as the welded system.

This is what I bought after taking to Reese. https://www.reeseprod.com/mobile/products/fifth-wheels/elite-series-rail-kits/fifth-wheel-trailer-hitch-rail-kit/lHed9XozUzF0erCVqA6Q6rtCVhTD%7CN!7

[chuckster57]

The puck system is a set of round holes in the bed. There is a “puck” that locks into each hole to hold the hitch in place. The “puck” is a large round pin with “ears” that lock into place when you turn them in the hole.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Ok, now you've lost me. What the devil dog is a Puck? Excuse my ignorance. The one I have built, in both models, I have the 5th wheel hitch package and the 5th Wheel Hitch Kit prep for 27,500lbs. Is it one or the other? Did I over build? Redundant choices? Whats the difference in the 2?

The fifth wheel hitch kit prep is the "UNDERBED components and the 5 holes in the truck bed floor. The fifth wheel hitch package is the actual "above the floor hitch rated at 27.500 pounds for $1495 and does not have a sliding function.

Many people opt for aftermarket hitches that are built to fit the "underbed pucks". You can buy everything from sliding hitches to different brand hitches that are an "improvement over the OEM hitch" (at least many people prefer a B&W, Demco or CURT brand hitch. Each has some "special niche" that they include and buyers typically prefer one over the rest for whatever reason. IMHO (for what it's worth) the Ford hitch is a "rebranded REESE hitch" and many people prefer a different brand/style.

In short, the Prep Kit is the underbed pucks and the hitch is the above bed hitch itself that fits in the pucks.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Javi

This is what I bought after taking to Reese. https://www.reeseprod.com/mobile/pro...6rtCVhTD%7CN!7

I believe that is the "earlier version" of the hitch kit I linked to...

Yours is Reese #30126 the one I linked is #30138-26 (probably interchangeable) and both rated at 25,000 pounds max towing 6125 max pin

[dutchmensport]

In Indiana, tags are purchased based on the overall weight and payload possible in the truck. However, when I went to register my current truck, the BMV started filling out the paper work based on 7,000 pounds, which is the bottom tier on trucks. Mine has an over all weight (truck weight and payload capacity) of over 11,000. Well, even though I knew I'd never get that close, I still told them I waned the next level up, and had it registered as ???? I thin ... 12,000 pounds ??? Yes, it cost more, but if found overweight from what your license place said, you'd be fined. I wanted to make sure, anything I hauled, I was OK. Little did I know, 4 years later I'd get a fifth wheel.

If I would have jumped up to the next category, I would have been in commercial truck territory. So, I learned in Indiana, you can have a truck listed for 11,000 pounds and get it registered for 7,000 pounds, as long as you never, ever exceed the 7000 pound limit in actual use.

Now, dualies in HOA's... no experience with that. I've been a dually 3500 owner for a long time now, and never had problems anywhere. (I'm on my 3rd 3500 dually now, and even driving in town and these stupid round-abouts being invaded in central Indiana), or curbs.

I can't account for any other state, but we've been camping for over 14 years now with 3500 duallies and I've not had any problems anywhere in the USA. BUT! I've never been to California either!

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Another question....Is it imperative that a F450 be in 4x4?

The answer to that may depend on whether you intend to factory-order or have your dealer do a lot search for you. Where I live, the dealer informed me that if I insisted on no 4WD on even my F-250, it would severely reduce the available selection.

[dutchmensport]

4X4 ???
If you use your truck on primarily paved roads and you do not live in a snow state or a sand state, you will probably never use 4x4. If you off-road, mountain roads (off pavement, sand dunes-ocean beach) driving you will probably more than likely use 4x4. But once on pavement, you'll switch back to 2x4.

Towing with 4x4 is not necessary at all, again, unless you travel in snow. Then 4x4 is priceless .... especially towing.

However, the few times I used 4x4 outside of snow season, was priceless! From what I understand about 4x4, you really do not want to use 4x4 if doing straight driving on paved dry roads as it can actually damage the gearing mechanism.

Your choice though. How much, and under what conditions would you use 4x4. Personally, living in a snow state, especially in the country when our road is one of the last to get plowed out, 4x4 is priceless. I have used 4x4 towing the trailer on snowy roads before ... yes.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The fifth wheel hitch kit prep is the "UNDERBED components and the 5 holes in the truck bed floor. The fifth wheel hitch package is the actual "above the floor hitch rated at 27.500 pounds for $1495 and does not have a sliding function.

Many people opt for aftermarket hitches that are built to fit the "underbed pucks". You can buy everything from sliding hitches to different brand hitches that are an "improvement over the OEM hitch" (at least many people prefer a B&W, Demco or CURT brand hitch. Each has some "special niche" that they include and buyers typically prefer one over the rest for whatever reason. IMHO (for what it's worth) the Ford hitch is a "rebranded REESE hitch" and many people prefer a different brand/style.

In short, the Prep Kit is the underbed pucks and the hitch is the above bed hitch itself that fits in the pucks.

Soooo, for the short answer, order YES to both.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by LHaven

The answer to that may depend on whether you intend to factory-order or have your dealer do a lot search for you. Where I live, the dealer informed me that if I insisted on no 4WD on even my F-250, it would severely reduce the available selection.

I highly doubt they would find what I am wanting. All I have found online as far as searching inventories is a 80% match. If I have to order factory, I will. Just hope it works.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

In Indiana, tags are purchased based on the overall weight and payload possible in the truck. However, when I went to register my current truck, the BMV started filling out the paper work based on 7,000 pounds, which is the bottom tier on trucks. Mine has an over all weight (truck weight and payload capacity) of over 11,000. Well, even though I knew I'd never get that close, I still told them I waned the next level up, and had it registered as ???? I thin ... 12,000 pounds ??? Yes, it cost more, but if found overweight from what your license place said, you'd be fined. I wanted to make sure, anything I hauled, I was OK. Little did I know, 4 years later I'd get a fifth wheel.

If I would have jumped up to the next category, I would have been in commercial truck territory. So, I learned in Indiana, you can have a truck listed for 11,000 pounds and get it registered for 7,000 pounds, as long as you never, ever exceed the 7000 pound limit in actual use.

Now, dualies in HOA's... no experience with that. I've been a dually 3500 owner for a long time now, and never had problems anywhere. (I'm on my 3rd 3500 dually now, and even driving in town and these stupid round-abouts being invaded in central Indiana), or curbs.

I can't account for any other state, but we've been camping for over 14 years now with 3500 duallies and I've not had any problems anywhere in the USA. BUT! I've never been to California either!

You've given me lots to think about and to research. Appreciate it.

On the 4x4, I look at that like I would my 2A. Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Just me. This will be my retirement truck, drive it till I'm gone from this earth.

[Getn off]

If I had it to do over, not honestly sure what I would do.
I thought I wanted the 450 when I bought mine. Turning radius being the number 1 reason. A friend has one and loves it, but like mentioned, tires are a bit tough to find on the road sometimes.
When searching, Ford wasn't coming off msrp on the 450s, but I got 10k off my 350. Big difference.
Found a 350 optioned out to nearly a 450 including the max payload et all. Only real diff was the wheels. I didn't think it was worth 10 k for the turning radius.
Check with ur insurance company. I had to switch mine as essurance for some reason (in FL) wont insure F350s, but will 250/450!? They couldn't even tell me why.
Do keep in mind that when making a u turn from a center turn lane with 3 lanes each direction, you will hit the curb. Plan to backup and re turn...which aint an option with any trailer.
As for the must have options? Def the mfg 5th wheel prep (puck). I would also opt for the hd payload as well as the secondary radar back up camera towing system they offer. Kind of a 3d full 360 view with trailer. Wish I had that.
Good luck.
Troy

[Getn off]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

4X4 ???
If you use your truck on primarily paved roads and you do not live in a snow state or a sand state, you will probably never use 4x4. If you off-road, mountain roads (off pavement, sand dunes-ocean beach) driving you will probably more than likely use 4x4. But once on pavement, you'll switch back to 2x4.

Towing with 4x4 is not necessary at all, again, unless you travel in snow. Then 4x4 is priceless .... especially towing.

However, the few times I used 4x4 outside of snow season, was priceless! From what I understand about 4x4, you really do not want to use 4x4 if doing straight driving on paved dry roads as it can actually damage the gearing mechanism.

Your choice though. How much, and under what conditions would you use 4x4. Personally, living in a snow state, especially in the country when our road is one of the last to get plowed out, 4x4 is priceless. I have used 4x4 towing the trailer on snowy roads before ... yes.

I can understand this. But...lol
Last month I was in a campground going up a hill which was 8% (almost took a pic!) according to that crazy indicator that never gets attention! About half concrete half gravel. Seriously! Truck spun a few times and I almost had to drop her into 4wd. This was a dry day with no snow/mud. Also, I have recently had to transverse some soggy grass/dirt while aligning my trailer into its perfect spot at another campground in Fl this summer.
I will always buy a 4x4 when looking for a tow vehicle...especially on mossy boat ramps btw.
Troy

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Soooo, for the short answer, order YES to both.

I would definitely order the underbed fifth wheel prep kit. It's actually cheaper to buy it OEM ($500) which includes the in bed 7 pin umbilical connector than to buy it from eTrailer ($717.90 on sale) and you don't get the in bed umbilical connector. Plus, you have to pay even more to get it installed... Buy the OEM, it's a bargain !!!

As for the hitch, the 19,000 pound fifth wheel hitch costs $1295 and the 32,500 pound hitch costs $1895. The Reese 20,000 pound hitch is $917 at eTrailer and the Reese M5, 27,000 pound hitch at eTrailer is $947.

Neither of the above Reese hitches are "Ford branded" but they are essentially the same hitch for significantly less money.

Many people prefer a different brand hitch than Reese, and they are all "competitively priced... Why "special order a Ford hitch and get a Reese at twice the price ??? YMMV

[BeagleMan]

The 27.5K Hitch is $1495 on the Build site. That would be ok, wouldn't it? I appreciate tho that you are looking out for my dollars.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I would definitely order the underbed fifth wheel prep kit. It's actually cheaper to buy it OEM ($500) which includes the in bed 7 pin umbilical connector than to buy it from eTrailer ($717.90 on sale) and you don't get the in bed umbilical connector. Plus, you have to pay even more to get it installed... Buy the OEM, it's a bargain !!!

As for the hitch, the 19,000 pound fifth wheel hitch costs $1295 and the 32,500 pound hitch costs $1895. The Reese 20,000 pound hitch is $917 at eTrailer and the Reese M5, 27,000 pound hitch at eTrailer is $947.

Neither of the above Reese hitches are "Ford branded" but they are essentially the same hitch for significantly less money.

Many people prefer a different brand hitch than Reese, and they are all "competitively priced... Why "special order a Ford hitch and get a Reese at twice the price ??? YMMV

I don't know the cost to install it bought at 1/2 the price but I'm guessing the labor for aftermarket install would eat into the "twice the price" margin. To say nothing of standing around hoping some flunky with a wrench sticking out of his pocket doesn't walk too close to your nice new truck.

[chuckster57]

We had a customer install his own puck system. When he showed up we tried to install the hitch, but it was a hair off. Factory guys probably have a jig to set it perfect while they are building the truck. Takes all the frustration out when us techs try to put the hitch in the bed.