About to buy a new 2020 Passport SL 239ML

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Oakville2020

Dealer said I'd be OK? Highlander (6cyl) rated for 5000lbs. Trailer is 4100lbs (I know that's dry). But if I don't travel with all but a small amount of fresh water (not that the dealer said that), I thought I'd be OK? Especially with the sway control hitch with weight distribution system.
Have I been hoodwinked??

Bolded black section. We hear this everyday. They either don't know or outright lie. The only thing they are concerned about is getting your money.

Now the bold red ... That dry weight is what it weighed from the factory. It does not include the battery, propane and propane tanks, and all the "stuff" you put in it. So let's look at what you are "likely" to add.

Sheets, pillows, blankets, other linens.
Cloths, shoes, rain coats,
Cooking utensils, pots, pans, coffee maker, toaster, can opener.
Eating utensils, plates cups, forks spoons knives.
Food & drinks, cooking essentials such as spices, coffee, aluminum foil, baggies, coffee creamer, sweetener, salt pepper, spices, soups, popcorn, s'mores marshmallows, hershey bars, gram crackers, popcorn, hot dogs, etc.etc.
Paper towels, cleaners (dish soap, spray cleaners, disinfectants etc), paper napkins, plastic cups, etc.
Bathroom toiletries, toilet paper, towels, soaps, bug spray, sunscreen, first aid and beauty supplies.
Entertainment, tablets, laptop, phone chargers, dvd's, board games, fishing pole and tackle box, bean bag (corn hole) game, balls, bat glove, football, flashlights, kids games, books, magazines, etc., etc.

Still traveling "light"? Now I know you're reading that list thinkling "there's no way I'm packing all that stuff". Well it has a way of sneaking up on you. You'll be in a store and say "let's get that Lodge Cast Iron cook set it would be prefect for camping" or "oh look at the cute rugs and matching throws with the camper on it".

You will be overloaded from the moment you hitch up, much less after loading up. This happens all too frequently to those that are inexperienced. No one's trying to rain on your parade. Most of us have been thru this and just hate to see it happen to someone else.

[Oakville2020]

I've sent in an email to the Business Manager and Salesperson, with the unsigned contract, hopefully they'll answer honestly in writing!!

[Oakville2020]

Sheets, pillows, blankets, other linens.
Cloths, shoes, rain coats,
Cooking utensils, pots, pans, coffee maker, toaster, can opener.
Eating utensils, plates cups, forks spoons knives.
Food & drinks, cooking essentials such as spices, coffee, aluminum foil, baggies, coffee creamer, sweetener, salt pepper, spices, soups, popcorn, s'mores marshmallows, hershey bars, gram crackers, popcorn, hot dogs, etc.etc.
Paper towels, cleaners (dish soap, spray cleaners, disinfectants etc), paper napkins, plastic cups, etc.
Bathroom toiletries, toilet paper, towels, soaps, bug spray, sunscreen, first aid and beauty supplies.
Entertainment, tablets, laptop, phone chargers, dvd's, board games, fishing pole and tackle box, bean bag (corn hole) game, balls, bat glove, football, flashlights, kids games, books, magazines, etc., etc.

Still traveling "light"? Now I know you're reading that list thinkling "there's no way I'm packing all that stuff". Well it has a way of sneaking up on you. You'll be in a store and say "let's get that Lodge Cast Iron cook set it would be prefect for camping" or "oh look at the cute rugs and matching throws with the camper on it".


You know my wife??

[Bill-2020]

Oak- I should have asked you long ago what vehicle you were planning on using when I stated it towed well with a 1/2 ton capable vehicle. My apologies. I tow our 239 with a Tundra. It’s stable and handles the trailer and I’m within the weight limits with 3-4 days food, propane, clothing and about 10 gallons of fresh water for traveling purposes. We don’t boondock. The Highlander will not be safe. Please reconsider the trailer or reconsider the towing vehicle.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Oakville2020

Sheets, pillows, blankets, other linens.
Cloths, shoes, rain coats,
Cooking utensils, pots, pans, coffee maker, toaster, can opener.
Eating utensils, plates cups, forks spoons knives.
Food & drinks, cooking essentials such as spices, coffee, aluminum foil, baggies, coffee creamer, sweetener, salt pepper, spices, soups, popcorn, s'mores marshmallows, hershey bars, gram crackers, popcorn, hot dogs, etc.etc.
Paper towels, cleaners (dish soap, spray cleaners, disinfectants etc), paper napkins, plastic cups, etc.
Bathroom toiletries, toilet paper, towels, soaps, bug spray, sunscreen, first aid and beauty supplies.
Entertainment, tablets, laptop, phone chargers, dvd's, board games, fishing pole and tackle box, bean bag (corn hole) game, balls, bat glove, football, flashlights, kids games, books, magazines, etc., etc.

Still traveling "light"? Now I know you're reading that list thinkling "there's no way I'm packing all that stuff". Well it has a way of sneaking up on you. You'll be in a store and say "let's get that Lodge Cast Iron cook set it would be prefect for camping" or "oh look at the cute rugs and matching throws with the camper on it".


You know my wife??

If she's anything like mine I do. I love mine dearly but I swear if I built the Taj Mahal she'd fill it up!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Oakville2020

I've sent in an email to the Business Manager and Salesperson, with the unsigned contract, hopefully they'll answer honestly in writing!!

Hi Oakville. I'm usually trying to warn folks that fall into your situation/trap but I didn't catch the Highlander. Thankfully others picked right up on that. Sorry.

Not sure what you asked the dealer but if it pertains to weight they will not know....period. Dealt with too many as our other folks have.

Your door sticker is the definitive answer you have to use to assess your situation. From that you have to use the gvw of the trailer to keep you in safe(er) territory. Even if you don't use every lb. of the cargo capacity of the trailer (any trailer) using the gvw gives the buyer a bit of safety cushion. Post those sticker numbers and let's see where it goes.

[Oakville2020]

Are these the stickers?

[sourdough]

The bottom one (with the yellow) should have the payload weight but it is blurry and I can't read it.

[Oakville2020]

Originally Posted by sourdough

The bottom one (with the yellow) should have the payload weight but it is blurry and I can't read it.

posted better quality pics

[Bill-2020]

No additional pics there Oakville. Try again?

[sourdough]

Thanks! My quad focals could read those.

Your payload is 1300 lbs. gawr front = 2965 / rear = 3503. GVWR is 5996 lbs.

The dilemma; as stated previously the tongue weight (13% of gvw) and hitch weight would come to approx. 961 lbs. That leaves about 340 lbs. for family, stuff.....all the things mentioned earlier....in an SUV meant to go the mall or get groceries. The suspension, tires etc. just isn't built for "towing"; they can pull something in a pinch but not a large travel trailer running across the countryside....safely.

By the time you load the trailer up, the family, the gear etc. to head off for a fun week you will more than likely be exceeding the gvwr of the vehicle, the rear gawr of the vehicle and the payload of the vehicle. Not only that, a small SUV comes with small "things" like springs, shocks, sway bars, frames, drive shafts, weak transmissions. And if it has AWD all that running gear was never meant to be stressed by the weight of that trailer being there.

You thought that you would never be loaded up...that will not be the case for long. But even if you never put only minimal stuff in the trailer you are still loading that Highlander down more than it was ever meant to be. The suspension components are made to give a soft, compliant, comfortable ride; the exact opposite of a towing suspension. Those qualities make it dangerous with a larger trailer; they can't control the forces the trailer exerts on the vehicle.

I will just say that I can't imagine putting a trailer that large and heavy behind a Highlander running empty (as possible) or at gvw. It's a recipe for disaster at the worst or a horrible experience trying to get from A to B waiting for the axe to fall at the best. JMO

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Bill-2020

No additional pics there Oakville. Try again?

The originals were updated with clearer pics.

[MarkEHansen]

When considering the payload capacity of the tow vehicle, don't forget the weight of the WD Hitch. They are usually around 100lbs. That comes right out of the payload too.

[travelin texans]

Best I can read you have 1300lbs of payload from that yellow sticker, 1300 - 836 tongue weight - 125lb hitch - all the passengers, pets & other stuff in the Toyota that didn't come from the factory = very little room for anything else.

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by sourdough

The originals were updated with clearer pics.

Ah! Thanks Danny

[Bill-2020]

Silver lining to this- It sounds like you haven’t signed he dotted line and you can back out. As heartbreaking to the family as it may be, you’ve just saved yourself a lot of trouble and potentially damage or worse, injury to someone. I’m glad you said “Highlander” earlier. Hope to hear that you can eventually get into something that will fit the needs of the family. (BTW- you did buy a great SUV, it just wasn’t meant to handle the 239)

Years ago we were just window shopping at a dealer to burn some time and a salesman was trying his hardest to get us convinced to buy and into something. After a while he realized what we had drove up in (the DWs little SUV), and he pulled his smart phone out and started to research it. It was then that he asked how many cylinders it had and I then realized what he was doing. Guess he thought her little four banger SUV would actually, maybe, pull the 19 footer we were standing next to (Jayco Jayflight I think)?. He asked if I was planning on using the SUV. I said I already had a trailer and a truck. You should have seen the “almost relief” in his face when he knew we had something larger because he probably realized he SUV really couldn’t handle it, but he never said it wouldn’t do it either. Hungry for a commission I suppose. We shook his hand and thanked him for his time.

[Northofu1]

If changing your Tow vehicle is out of the question, I would look at some hybrids. The blue ox wdh weighs 80 lbs, add weight of family and belongings in TV.
This is small but might fit your need and would most likely be towable by your highlander.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4981Grhjuxg

GVWR is 4700 lbs and tongue weight is 611 lbs at 13%, you have some homework ahead of you. Start small and look at some of these models, they don't have to be Keystone's.
Good luck

[Buckeyexx]

When I bought my passport 239ml in 2017 I was using my Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 hemi v8. It had a tow rating of 7200 which is pretty high for a small suv.

While it would pull the camper down the road with all the power I needed and couldn’t really tell it was back there it just had a very short wheel base. I learned real quick that it wasn’t the right tow vehicle. Every tractor trailer or high winds would push me around and made for white knuckle experience.

Not trying to discourage you from buying it but just need the facts of something that small towing a sail behind it.

[sourdough]

Oak, something to think about right away is your receiver on the Highlander. Didn't think about it yesterday but it came to me this morning. From memory but I believe you said the max tow rating for the vehicle is 5000lbs. If you look, and you need to, I think you will find that the receiver on it will be limited to 500lbs. You are looking at almost 1000lbs. It goes back to the intent that those kinds of vehicles were never meant as "tow" vehicles and they're just not built robust enough for it. Dropping that much weight on that receiver will eventually result in it breaking loose from the vehicle....trailer attached. That won't be a pretty sight for anyone...including the guy behind you or the one in the approaching lane.

[WJQ]

Pay close attention to the comments. The dealers are often "uninformed" or lying just to get the deal. You not only have an undersized tow vehicle from a safety standpoint, but you may also submit your Highlander to excess wear and tear and end up with costly maintenance such as a transmission replacement. As described above, you will be overweight.

I used to own motorhomes but I now have my first trailer. The manufacturer's brochure said my trailer had a tongue weight of 660 lbs. The brochure didn't bother to mention that tongue weight was the "dry weight." Furthermore, did it not describe that "dry weight" excludes propane, batteries, water, any personal items loaded towards the front of the trailer not offset by weight in the rear of the trailer. My tongue weight with two filled propane tanks and two 6-volt batteries is 844 lbs assuming I load the trailer with equal amounts on the front and rear and do not carry any fresh water with me.

If you can't back out of your purchase, start looking for a 1/2 ton pickup truck with a V-8 engine. Depending on your finances, a low miles used truck will be a good solution. You will have plenty of towing capacity. With a good weight distribution hitch, you will also be safer than trying to tow with your Highlander.

Then, get prepared for your new "hobby." I bought a new Keystone Cougar trailer in late Oct 2018. As winter was on us here in Utah, there was no camping until the next May. I used the winter months to make some upgrades myself. Since then, after every trip, I have to fix something. So far this year, fixed a leaky shower, sliding door that comes of its track, shades that won't work properly, a window lever that broke, a drawer that came apart, a water heater control board failure, a gas leak in the stove, etc. Quality design and construction are unknown concepts in the Keystone factory. However, with this blog, you can find lots of good advice on how to do repairs yourself once your warranty expires.

After you get your pickup, use your trailer a lot, so the failures are covered under the 1-year warranty. I didn't take my trailer back to the dealer for most of the repairs that I could fix myself as the dealer is 60 miles away. I did have them fix the water heater and the gas leak under warranty.

Good luck and be safe.