Why

[chuckster57]

Cruiser RV units used to come from the factory with the actual dry weight of the unit as it left the assembly line. Sticker with the weight hand written and the employees signature by the entry door.

[fjr vfr]

Originally Posted by Todd727

How can they list anything BUT the dry weight? The manufacturer cannot know how much cargo you will carry or how much water water you will carry in fresh water tank. Will you dump your tanks before driving or will you have to drive to a dump station along the way?

They could list an empty trailer weight. FYI, the dry weight is not what the trailers empty weight is. In many cases not even close.
My trailers' dry weight is listed at 7,750 lbs. I brought it on the CAT scale TOTALLY empty...not even sheets on the bed, empty tanks, etc. My weight came in at 9,100 lbs. I believe this to be more typical than not.
So imho no one should ever be calculating anything from "dry weights." You will very much mislead yourself into thinking, "I can tow this, we don't carry much and we always travel with empty tanks" Very wishful thinking. You're already over the dry weight before starting.

[mike69440]

Originally Posted by JnRBick987

rhagfo correctly identified manufacturers as playing a role in the confusion. Their advertising creates expectations that the product really shouldnt attempt. That said, I would also add in some, not all, but some of the dealerships selling RVs that are also part of the problem. The general idea is "they are they experts, they know what they are talking about". Sadly some of them dont know what they are talking about, and even worse some know what they are talking about and still sell you a unit that they shouldnt.

Several years ago we had an F150 and a smaller bumper pull camper. I knew what the limits were, and we were just browsing a local RV lot looking at different things. We had no interest in any sort of purchase, was just looking, kind of like going to the RV show. The salesman started talking to us, and it was friendly conversation about products and floorplans and the like. Then he asked about my tow vehicle. I mentioned it was an F150 with the Ecoboost. He didnt ask bed length, or how many doors, or it it was 4 wheel drive, etc. He just took "F150" and "ecoboost" and came out with "yeah that truck can tow 13000lbs, you can buy almost any trailer on the lot except for the big fifth wheels". After, I told my wife about it, she heard the interaction but she didnt know what it meant, but she knew that I understood the numbers. So I explained the 13000lb tow number is a unicorn that almost none of the trucks can ever achieve. There are a few unicorns out there that were built with the correct packages and almost bare bones for accessories.

Our Unicorn is only rated 11,300 for tow weight by Ford, and a realistic safe max. is 8,300Lbs. for a bumper hitch trailer.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by fjr vfr

They could list an empty trailer weight. FYI, the dry weight is not what the trailers empty weight is. In many cases not even close.
My trailers' dry weight is listed at 7,750 lbs. I brought it on the CAT scale TOTALLY empty...not even sheets on the bed, empty tanks, etc. My weight came in at 9,100 lbs.

Dry weight is factory. Realize that trailers don't ship out of the factory with propane tanks (even empty), hitches, or batteries, but always include those when they leave the dealer's lot. That moots your brochure weight right there.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Dry weight is factory. Realize that trailers don't ship out of the factory with propane tanks (even empty), hitches, or batteries, but always include those when they leave the dealer's lot. That moots your brochure weight right there.

Propane tanks are on the trailer from the factory, just empty. Depending on model they can be a single 5 gal, double or triple 5 gal. Double 7 gallon and even double 10 gal.

[LHaven]

I stand corrected. I thought dealers added the removable tanks.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by LHaven

I stand corrected. I thought dealers added the removable tanks.

As a rule propane and batteries are installed by the dealer. Some Keystone units come with solar, lithium battery and inverter or loop. Lance trailers come with a go power 100aH LiPo4 battery, go power inverter, battery monitor and go power solar with 30A controller.

I’m starting to see more and more trailers coming with LiPo4 batteries, but have yet to see any trailers with propane. Solar seems to be becoming standard and it’s usually go power.

[jasin1]

When I purchased my fifth wheel I had the dealer look at my truck and they said I was good to go That I had enough truck…I even had them install the hitch as well…my 3/4 ton diesel only had around 2100 lbs of payload…I passed on a much heavier fifth wheel we looked at prior and told the dealer that is why I was looking at a lighter cougar.

When I scaled my truck with the bare minimum of gear I was hundreds of pounds overweight…ended up with a dually a few months later that could have pulled the heavier fifth wheel we originally wanted.

I found out it’s a common theme when shopping and taking the dealers advice

[LHaven]

Yeah... if only we knew how to get people to buy vehicles and join forums in the other order.

[JRTJH]

Trailers don't ship from the factory with full propane tanks for a specific reason. As the trailer leaves the assembly line, it goes to a "third party holding yard" awaiting a destination. Except for special "owner ordered trailers" the final destination for a trailer is not known when it leaves Keystone's possession and goes to that "third party shipper". When there's a demand to ship the trailer, Keystone contacts that third party shipper who then finds one of their drivers who is headed or wants to head toward that destination and they coordinate delivery.

So, when the trailer leaves "Keystone's possession" there's not a destination for that unit. Many locations prohibit towing with propane through tunnels or on bridges. It simplifies the delivery process to just leave the propane tanks empty and avoid the potential for restricted routes or worse, mixups with the trailer and driver in trouble because of an overlooked propane tank contents...

So, all tanks are empty when they leave Keystone.

As for batteries, every trailer requires a battery to tow (breakaway device power is mandatory for safe towing) but batteries are a highly pilferable item. $1000 lithium batteries are a great way to make extra income for a crook. So batteries are locked inside the trailer, not connected and sitting on the tongue. It's standard practice for every delivery driver to have a GP24 battery to install in trailers they tow and when they get to their destination, they take their battery off the trailer to use with their next delivery....

It makes lots of sense when you think about it, for the factory to not include the weight of batteries or propane in their brochures and technically, whether it's considered "ethical by us or not" it's just the way things are done in Goshen.

I've confirmed with the factory numerous times and the latest clarification from Keystone is that propane tanks are shipped empty, no batteries on the trailer tongue and the brochure weights are "as the trailer leaves the assembly line" not "as the trailer is delivered to the purchaser".... The dealer is responsible to provide a battery to power the breakaway system and to fill the propane tanks. Now, any dealer worth his salt will factor his cost for those items in the purchase price. I don't know of any dealer willing to "leave $150 on thetable" and no dealer I know is a certified charity, so the buyer pays for propane and battery, the cost goes to the dealer except for optional lithium batteries that are "locked in the trailer until the dealer installs them on the tongue and fills the propane tanks"......

As for dealer confimation: Dealers sell trailers. They make promises in order to reach that goal. Not every dealership makes only ethical promises. That said, EVERY trailer sold, as far as I know, at closing requires the customer to sign a legal document releasing the dealer from any responsibility for unsafe vehicle used to tow the new purchase.