What I observe makes a camper a lite weight for it's size.

[mike69440]

We purchased a 2017_Keystone_Bullet 26RBPR.
Seems to be a very nice couples camper.

Below is what I observe makes a camper a lite weight for it's size.

1.) Construction of body that remove's approximately 500 lbs. vs conventional construction.

2.) Suspension weight minimized by using one size smaller axle.

3.) GVWR reduced by limiting cargo weight capacity.

Thus they weight about 1,000 to 1,500lbs. less than typical convention campers of equal size and tow a bit easier.

Here is the main drawback: Carrying capacity.

While our 26RBPR is rated at 1460 Lbs. cargo capacity before it crosses the 7,500Lb mark, this being marginal, many other lite weights have even less cargo weight capacity.

the 2024 version of our 26RBPR main changes are
Outdoor Fridge.
Larger Indoor Fridge
Sturdier entrance steps
Different floor system
Self leveling Jacks
Indoor fireplace.
Revised cabinets
Some nice other do-Dads, etc.

2024 Camper GVWR is still 7,500 Lbs, But the base empty weight has increased to the point the Carrying capacity is just over 800lbs.

I would not want this camper as putting 1,000 lbs. of "stuff" in you little home away from home is way to easy.

Thoughts?

[LHaven]

Once you have owned one trailer, you learn from experience when reading new brochures to compare the empty weight with the GVWR, make a gross adjustment for hitch, propane, and battery, then what's left is your cargo capacity. And I have seen trailers designed to have cargo capacities so low, even by the published numbers, as to be frankly unethical. The next computation is estimated hitch weight versus your TV sticker payload. Only if both those numbers are suitable is it worthwhile reading the brochure any further.

[mike69440]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Once you have owned one trailer, you learn from experience when reading new brochures to compare the empty weight with the GVWR, make a gross adjustment for hitch, propane, and battery, then what's left is your cargo capacity. And I have seen trailers designed to have cargo capacities so low, even by the published numbers, as to be frankly unethical. The next computation is estimated hitch weight versus your TV sticker payload. Only if both those numbers are suitable is it worthwhile reading the brochure any further.

You're 100% correct. I would consider the newer Keystone and many "Ultralites" to be "unsafe" as any trailer that size should have as a minimum, about 1,500 lbs. of capacity.
Manufactures keep adding features that increase empty weight., but do not increase the combined GVWR. Another example, look at the payload of a F-150 Platinum or Limited!
I was well aware of the limitations of my 2017 when I bought it. I have the camper with a weight distributing hitch, two Lithium batteries and an inverter,
plus additional wiring and extension cords, new charge controller and wireless brake controller, 50lbs of solar panels, Tools, Fishing gear, Pop Up Awning, carpets and mats, jack pads and chocks, some camping gear, at least 4 heavy camp chairs, toys, buckets, hoses, Bike/Cargo carrier, an extra outdoor grill, two folding tables, bunch of bedding, clothing, towels, pots, pans, dinnerware, bumper attached clothes line & brackets, cleaning supplies, a filled medicine cabinet, septic supplies, sundries, hose hookups, other cooking and appliances, games, books, etc. The huge pantry must have 100 lbs. of food. I added maybe 50lbs of reinforcements, here and there.

PS I ditched a cast iron fry pan that must have weighed 10 lbs.

I will run my trailer over the scales next spring, but I am sure I am near the max cargo capacity.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by mike69440

We purchased a 2017_Keystone_Bullet 26RBPR.
Seems to be a very nice couples camper.
.......

Here is the main drawback: Carrying capacity.

While our 26RBPR is at 1460 Lbs before it crosses the 7,500Lb mark, this being marginal, many other lite weigts are even less.

........

2024 Camper GVW is still 7,500 Lbs, But the base empty weight has increased to the point the Carrying capacity is just over 800lbs.

I would not want this camper as putting 1,000 lbs. of "stuff" in you little home away from home is way to easy.

Thoughts?

If you think that is bad, we were at an RV show once and came across a Keystone 40'+ 5th wheel with a front and rear basement, and the carrying capacity was less than 2,000#!

[NH_Bulldog]

The limiting factor with the lightweight units is the BAL Huck-bolt frame. They cannot increase the GVWR because the frame cannot handle it and cannot be made to handle it. They market trailers as light weight, super light, ultra light, etc. which draws people in to thinking they can tow it with their SUV, but at the same time the market drives additional convenience features that increase the base weight and reduce the CCC to a point that is ridiculously low. What's worse is that the published CCC is at dry weight, and doesn't include batteries, full propane tanks and any fluids in any of the tanks.

My 2019 Passport 240BH had a GVWR of 7,000 lbs. and a CCC of 2,089 lbs. (never mind the fact that there was no where to stow over 2,000 lbs. of gear). It had a single dinette slide, crank-down stabilizers, hand-crank tongue jack, and a full outdoor kitchen, but not much else in the way of "wow" factor.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

...

...What's worse is that the published CCC is at dry weight, and doesn't include batteries, full propane tanks and any fluids in any of the tanks. ...

Also remember that the "published dry weight and cargo capacity" are not for the "specific RV" but are "generalized for that floorplan" across the entire floorplan produced during the entire "production year". There used to be a statement in all the brochures that said, "Published weights are accurate ONLY for the standard trailer with no optional equipment. Adding options such as a generator, second air conditioner, theater seating or other optional equipment will cause a reduction in cargo capacity".

Seems the current brochures "conveniently" omit the statement of what those weights really mean.

Adding optional equipment can potentially cause a DRAMATIC change that is not reflected in the specific trailer.

Then, to further "cloud" or even "completely mask" the true weight specifications, all the RV manufacturers are now playing the "MSRP game" and advertising the trailer MSRP, then adding "mandatory option packages"...

NONE OF THE BROCHURES ADDRESS THESE "MANDATORY OPTIONS". Then, the question becomes, "Are mandatory options included in the dry weight?"... There's NO CLEAR ANSWER.....

BUYER BEWARE !!!!!

[mike69440]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

If you think that is bad, we were at an RV show once and came across a Keystone 40'+ 5th wheel with a front and rear basement, and the carrying capacity was less than 2,000#!

At least it was not a toy hauler.
I think I can put 2000 lbs. of stuff in a small plastic storage shed!
So much for government regulation protecting the public!
Another example of a lot of regulations that do not do much other than restrict freedoms and lack of regulation where actual safety is of concern.
Government would rather spend time and resources to kill pet squirrels.
One thing for sure, Our camper will not be trailered with any liquid in the holding tanks.