Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Keystone Questions
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-28-2021, 03:14 PM   #21
Cbrez
Senior Member
 
Cbrez's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 506
We toured the Goshen plant several years ago. It was fascinating to see the rigs in various stages of assembly. I would highly recommend a plant tour for anyone traveling close to Goshen. I’d hate to be the guy that installs decals all day.

The salesman that ran our tour said they assemble our Montana in about 1 1/2 days.

Many workers hit the bars after work, which is about 2 pm if I remember correctly. If you really want to hear some quality control fails, sit at a table within earshot of the bar. You’ll hear about everything that went wrong that day.
__________________

Steve & Diane
2015 Montana 3402RL
2017 F350 Super Duty Lariat 6.7 Powerstroke, Super Cab, Long Box, 4WD DRW
18K PullRite Super 5th ISR
Cbrez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:17 AM   #22
Brob
Gone Traveling
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hampton
Posts: 21
Notice how they didn't show the areas where they didn't put insulation in the exterior wall, or where they suspended a rooftop A/C over an inadequately supported clear span?
Brob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:30 AM   #23
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brob View Post
Notice how they didn't show the areas where they didn't put insulation in the exterior wall, or where they suspended a rooftop A/C over an inadequately supported clear span?
If the trailer has FILON or ADZEL sides the exterior wall is vacum bonded ( glued) to the framework and the voids are filled with Styrofoam insulation. I cant speak to the AC portion, but I have yet to see an AC unit crash through the roof due to inadequate support. JMHO, YMMV.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:32 AM   #24
Brob
Gone Traveling
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hampton
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
If the trailer has FILON or ADZEL sides the exterior wall is vacum bonded ( glued) to the framework and the voids are filled with Styrofoam insulation. I cant speak to the AC portion, but I have yet to see an AC unit crash through the roof due to inadequate support. JMHO, YMMV.
Yes, your humble opinion...
Brob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:37 AM   #25
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brob View Post
Yes, your humble opinion...
FACT!!

As I have stated, and if you look at my signature you can clearly see that I have and at the present time still WORK ON RV's. the only new RV's that still get glass insulation on the sidewalls are the "stick and tin" units. I have removed/replaced too many windows to count and that gives me a good look at the inside of an exterior wall, much like a surgeon doing an operation.

IF YOU CAN PROVIDE PROOF that there isnt any insulation, please post a link/video or other information. Im not going to start posting pics of every trailer that I work on and take a window out of.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:45 AM   #26
Brob
Gone Traveling
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hampton
Posts: 21
Picture of back wall as it was insulated

The areas with no insulation are as they came from the factory...


FACT!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20210603_173837.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	293.1 KB
ID:	33954  
Brob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:53 AM   #27
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,203
So your complaint is the space above the window? I dont have an answer as I wasnt on the assembly line when that unit was built. thats 1 of how many thousands?
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:58 AM   #28
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brob View Post
Notice how they didn't show the areas where they didn't put insulation in the exterior wall, or where they suspended a rooftop A/C over an inadequately supported clear span?
Debate and disagreements are what makes this forum interesting...along with experienced and lighthearted and sometimes downright funny posts...BUT when you get upset over responses to a post and you act like a 10 year old and start bombing all the threads it can get just plain annoying and frankly a little embarrassing for you.. life is short my friend.. enjoy it and try to find something to be happy about.. I wish you well and no disrespect
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 04:50 PM   #29
Ken / Claudia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
Some people must argue no matter what. Some to the point of being ridiculous.

I must say Brob, I have never recovered from finding my floor gone soft in my 28 ft. Airstream. The money I paid for that was too much for it to fail. In 2014 I looked at another new 1 for 93,000 and said no way, I would never again own a Airstream. It even had a warped cabinet door.
__________________
2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
Ken / Claudia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 05:50 PM   #30
CrazyCain
Senior Member
 
CrazyCain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Commerce Twp, Mi
Posts: 1,002
I have had my Hideout, supposable the "low End" model for over 4 yrs now, use it just about every other weekend (towing to different CG's) and it has held together extremely well with zero problems. I keep up on the PV maintenance of it, especially that roof!!
__________________
TOM

2011 Chevy Silverado
1500, HD Tow Package
2017 Keystone Hideout 177LHS Carlisle Radial HDs
:
CrazyCain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 06:09 PM   #31
ADQ K9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 605
Like to see the Oregon plant where mine was built. I know it was partially flooded last year from a video posted on this forum. I am sure there are some different practices out west since not all product lines are built out west to my knowledge.
__________________
Mike
2016 Ford F350 CC 6.7 4x4 SRW (Ghost Rider)
2017 Cougar 29 RKSWE (The Tumble Weed)
Connected by a Curt 15K WDH W/Sway Control
ADQ K9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 05:21 AM   #32
German Shepherd Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Norwood, CO
Posts: 665

It must have been interesting to see the plant. If I ever get back east and close I will definitely go.

I have been trying to get actual build information on various brands of RV TTs for a while now. Almost impossible. They do not want to talk about it except superficially. Spent yesterday (no, not all day) researching Grand Design. They make such a deal about how they are different. I went to a dealership that carried them and the inside was nearly identical to my PR26RB. By that I mean the various fittings, fit, finish, etc. Now it did have a walk on capable roof, which I thought would make caulking each spring easier.
Point?
I do not think the buying public, at least in my particular economic strata, has any real choice when it comes to quality build amongst the various brands. I think if you really like RV camping you got to also like working on your rig. Fortunately I do and I do. Covid and age has caused DW and I to start winding down on the dog showing and using our TT for more pleasure trips. So more chances to work on my favorite hobby.
__________________

German Shepherd Guy

2018 Keystone 26RBPR
2014 Suburban 2500, 6L with 3.73 rear

German Shepherd Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 05:34 AM   #33
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post

It must have been interesting to see the plant. If I ever get back east and close I will definitely go.

I have been trying to get actual build information on various brands of RV TTs for a while now. Almost impossible. They do not want to talk about it except superficially. Spent yesterday (no, not all day) researching Grand Design. They make such a deal about how they are different. I went to a dealership that carried them and the inside was nearly identical to my PR26RB. By that I mean the various fittings, fit, finish, etc. Now it did have a walk on capable roof, which I thought would make caulking each spring easier.
Point?
I do not think the buying public, at least in my particular economic strata, has any real choice when it comes to quality build amongst the various brands. I think if you really like RV camping you got to also like working on your rig. Fortunately I do and I do. Covid and age has caused DW and I to start winding down on the dog showing and using our TT for more pleasure trips. So more chances to work on my favorite hobby.
I think as John and a few others have pointed out,the guy that was working on keystone units last month very well may have a job working on grand design this month..if he quits or gets fired he may wind back up at keystone again or Forest River. And the materials and appliances are the same.
The only real difference I can see is grand design tacks on $10000 premium for better factory customer service..meaning you can contact them and use outside contractors in some situations but not all. At least that’s my take on it so far.
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 05:59 AM   #34
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,772
While I haven't been to all of the RV manufacturer assembly plants, I've been to enough to realize that they're all built "essentially the same". If you look at the process and the outcome (building the end product and comparing the end product) they have to be "near identical" to compete in the same "features/price range". If there was a way to build a better mousetrap (and there probably is, they just haven't perfected it yet) I've no doubt that the RV manufacturer who gets it to market first, would be the "have all to end all" in the industry. They'd sell every trailer they could produce and put everyone else out of business... After all, who would be "crap" if they could buy a problem free trailer ?????

That said, from what I've seen from following the industry for over 50 years is that they all use the same components, the same frame technology, the same insulation, the same furniture, the same fasteners, the same adhesives, the same people, the same skill sets, the same engineering, the same RVIA standards, the same price range.... That last one, "the same price range" is where they all "stack up as near identical" except for a different feature or a different arrangement" that tends to set them apart from the competition. The "rub" as I see it, is that when a manufacturer "highlights one area" they tend to "diminish another area to offset weight, price, usability"...

So, to "sort of compare", You get nearly the same trailer with GD Transend that you do with a Keystone Passport or Bullet and you get the same trailer with GD Imagine as you do in a Keystone Cougar or Sprinter.

The difference in price (about $4000 - $6000) that you pay for a GD trailer gets you the "one to one warranty and 'smiling customer service' phone workers".... At Keystone, you bet "bare bones customer support"...

Essentially, you get the "near identical" trailer with the same features, and you pay a premium for someone to talk to when you need help. The question becomes: Do you want to save money and "wing it alone" if you have a problem or do you want to "buy that extra protection" that comes with more responsive factory support? Some do, some don't....

It's the same, IMHO, as the "imagined superiority" that Toyota's reputation built in the past decade. Are they still "better than domestic products" ?? That's up to each individual to determine based on their specific situation, desires and perceptions... It's nearly the same with RV's.... Some people believe GD, or Forest River or Jayco or Winnebago are "better/worse/offer more/less value" than Keystone... Some believe just the opposite... Who's right? Who's wrong? Chances are both are right (for their situation) and both are wrong (looking at it from a different viewpoint)....

Bottom line, at least to me, is that we aren't going to "force the industry" into change, that will come from within as long as all the manufacturers are building them as fast as they can and every unit out the door is selling at record prices... In other words, as long as we're standing in line with approved credit or cash, they'll give us exactly what we're willing to buy.

Back to differences in RV's, within any given price range, there might be a difference in decor or in colors or in floorplans, but when it comes to the "bones of the trailer" there's not a "hill of beans difference" between any of the offerings from any manufacturer. You can't (they can't) build a $100k trailer and sell it for $5K and the competition won't let them build a $5K trailer and sell it for $100K (although some have tried). Those manufacturers quickly fall by the wayside....

In the end, Keystone = Forest River = Grand Design = Jayco = ***** except for the feature that attracts you to a specific brand/model which makes that choice "more value for your needs or perception"....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 06:23 AM   #35
Ken / Claudia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
Not sure what all is different in Oregon plant, but Pendelton is a much smaller community than back east. Without looking this up, I guess the population is less than 15,000. I beleive its the only RV plant in the city. Next city on I84 is about 50 miles away and even smaller, La Grande Oregon. There Artic Fox and maybe 2 other RVs are built. I spent a couple hours on tour at AF. I noticed all line workers were Hispanic and supervisors where mostly white. I tried to talk with several line workers and they nodded, I felt they could not speak English.
In the greater Portland area, I lived near a Komfort trailer plant and at shift change it was mostly Hispanic workers. We visited 4 manufactured home makers in 2007 and noticed the same type of workers. Not attempting to say they are bad or different that was just what I seen. If they are different type of worker maybe they do a better job than Amish workers?
Maybe with less work force in Oregon, bad workers cannot easily move from 1 company to another.
I do think its funny that miss labeled tank valves seen to come from back east, not sure if I ever read of a western built keystone with them being in the wrong place.
__________________
2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
Ken / Claudia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 06:26 AM   #36
CrazyCain
Senior Member
 
CrazyCain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Commerce Twp, Mi
Posts: 1,002
Been there, Done That at the Hideout Factory.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	keystone.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	142.3 KB
ID:	33969  
__________________
TOM

2011 Chevy Silverado
1500, HD Tow Package
2017 Keystone Hideout 177LHS Carlisle Radial HDs
:
CrazyCain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 06:54 AM   #37
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post

It must have been interesting to see the plant. If I ever get back east and close I will definitely go.

I have been trying to get actual build information on various brands of RV TTs for a while now. Almost impossible. They do not want to talk about it except superficially. Spent yesterday (no, not all day) researching Grand Design. They make such a deal about how they are different. I went to a dealership that carried them and the inside was nearly identical to my PR26RB. By that I mean the various fittings, fit, finish, etc. Now it did have a walk on capable roof, which I thought would make caulking each spring easier.
Point?
I do not think the buying public, at least in my particular economic strata, has any real choice when it comes to quality build amongst the various brands. I think if you really like RV camping you got to also like working on your rig. Fortunately I do and I do. Covid and age has caused DW and I to start winding down on the dog showing and using our TT for more pleasure trips. So more chances to work on my favorite hobby.


Prior to buying my current trailer I had narrowed my choices down to Grand Design or Keystone. I initially was comparing the Keystone Cougar 5th wheel (not 1/2 ton) vs the GD Reflection. After DW decided she wanted a washer/dryer that changed to GD Solitude, Montana or Montana High Country.

I had the good fortune of having a couple of dealerships in the same town that sold all of them so I was able to spend quite a bit of time comparing the 2 brands and models that were virtually alike. Like you after looking at all the nooks and crannies they appeared to be darn near the same trailers - not so surprising since GD is an offshoot company from previous Keystone execs.

I also came to the same conclusion you did; there was a 10k premium for the GD name which seems to hinge on their better customer service. I decided to cast my lot with Keystone hoping that my required use of customer service would never equal anywhere near 10k. I chose the MHC vs Montana because IMO I needed a diesel DRW to tow any of the Montana models we wanted and that was a no go for me.

So to your point; I think that access to a "game changing", super quality RV for the masses is just not there....because they don't want it or the cost. I hope you're able to get out soon and enjoy some of those pleasure trips. If I can ever get rid of all these doctors we're going to do the same thing.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
keystone

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.