It doesn't add up.....

[wegone]

I have a 2019 Keystone RV Bullet Ultra Lite Series M-265 RBIWE.
The axles are rated at 3500lbs looking at the tags on them.
Here are the specs to this trailer:

2019 Keystone RV Bullet Ultra Lite Series M-265 RBIWE

Maximum Sleeping Capacity
6
Number Of Slideouts
2
Length (ft-in / m)
30' 10'' / 9.4

Base Weight (lbs / kg)
5803 / 2632.2

Carrying Capacity (lbs / kg)
1797 / 815.1

Hitch Weight (lbs / kg)
600 / 272.2

Number Of Axles
2

So if I max this trailer out, my truck is rated for 11K, I am at 7,600 lbs, right, over my axles capacity if each can carry 3500 lbs.

Am I right on this?
If that is true, how can they sell it and still meet the saftey guidelines?

[rolopayne]

two 3500LB axles + 600lb tounge weight = 7600LBs

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

I have a 2019 Keystone RV Bullet Ultra Lite Series M-265 RBIWE.
The axles are rated at 3500lbs looking at the tags on them.
Here are the specs to this trailer:

2019 Keystone RV Bullet Ultra Lite Series M-265 RBIWE

Maximum Sleeping Capacity
6
Number Of Slideouts
2
Length (ft-in / m)
30' 10'' / 9.4

Base Weight (lbs / kg)
5803 / 2632.2

Carrying Capacity (lbs / kg)
1797 / 815.1

Hitch Weight (lbs / kg)
600 / 272.2

Number Of Axles
2

So if I max this trailer out, my truck is rated for 11K, I am at 7,600 lbs, right, over my axles capacity if each can carry 3500 lbs.

Am I right on this?
If that is true, how can they sell it and still meet the saftey guidelines?

Because the trailer will never be traveling down the highway all by itself…it’s not a motorhome …it’s built and designed to be attached to a truck when it’s on the highway…some of the weight is transferred to the truck (tongue weight) …the axles only have to support the weight of the trailer minus the tongue weight

[quaddriver]

Its part of the 'just enough and no more' theory of building everyone does.


Im betting you have dexter 3500# axles using L68149/L44649 (1-3/8x1-1/16) bearings - the most popular combo on the planet (so popular I still have half a dozen sets in stock and I quit!)


Your tires likely have a load cap at max pressure in the 1760lb load range C or 2040 load range D, each. and they dont like going fast. AT all. top speed - 25% for sustained loaded running. that is 55-60mph MAX. I mean MAX. Did I mention MAX?



so yeah the 7600BVWR is based on the 600lb tongue and both axles pushed to the limit....but its not straight math.


You have to use a w/d hitch so use the 1/3 rule...whatever your spring bars are....1/3 stays on point, on the tongue, 1/3 is statically moved to the front axle of the tow vehicle and 1/3 is moved to the trailer axles. Of the light shipping weight of 'x', x-empty TW = axle load, so you load from there.


split weights on a cat scale are your friend.


now, can you upgrade it? tires sure. And tires will be your FIRST failure. they sit in one position for many months at a time, backing the trailer literally puts a tearing force in the tread grooves and at the cap ends...plus heat, and low air considerations.


If you have 205/75-14 LRD ish tires, you are just enough, not more. If they fit, 215/75-15 LRC or D is a better fit...but costly. (Im looking at this)


You can add a leaf to each spring pak, but the spindles are the hard part. If I had a spare pile of cash, I would upgrade my axles to larger tapers, using 5 on 5 or 6 on 5 hubs, same 15" tire upgrade.


You are not the first that looked at the numbers and said WTH?


In the spring I am likely to goto a 15x7 wheel, 'soft' D window, with 5 on 4.5 and the 15" tires and sell my factory wheel tire sets on craigslist. Its gonna be an $800 bite, but you will spend more than that when the first cap loss rips off the wheelwell - and it aint covered under any warranty.


we weighed everything that went in the camper last weekend. Know thy trailer.


Dont tow wet except for last mile and shop for your food last mile instead of hauling it. In this instance, less, is more!


Interested if anyone has torsion axles on their coach? is it an option?

[Ken / Claudia]

Ed summed it up very well.
What you do not know is real world camping weights. To get that load up truck and trailer for a camp trip. My listed trailer, Keystone said tongue wt, shipped was 520 or 560 lb. I scaled it at 920 lbs packed for 2 for 3 days and with fresh water full. You did not list the truck or it's payload. You want the new world numbers to be under the tow vehicles payload. Too many judge a tow vehicle and trailer by what the tow vehicle can pull not what it is designed to carry. I travel with full or nearly full water most of times. Travel with holding tanks full at times. That's what camping off grid is about.

As far as torsion axles, I have had them on 3 of 6 boat trailers. They work fine many boat trailer use them. Only see them on IPOD type RVs. or light weight RVs. They have less travel than spring supported axles.
I have spend to much time in my life on roads and cannot break the habit of looking at vehicles and what's around me. I have noted this with single torsion axle trailers and cannot not explain why. As they travel and bounce up/down on the road. I see the tires taking more abuse than leaf sprung axles. Described like this the tires bounce more, when they come back down the tires squash down and bulge out more. I see this on light weight to heavy torsion axle trailers. Yes, leaf sprung axles will do this, but not as much as I see common with torsion axles.
I only wonder if what I see is due to less suspension travel. That is only a guess.

[travelin texans]

You will NEVER see a 600lb tongue weight on that trailer unless you start hanging tractor weights off the rear bumper.............then the flimsy bumper will break off in about a mile or two.
Rv manufacturers use the NEW math when calculating numbers, mostly just printing something to fill the line item requirements.

[wegone]

DAMN....almost sorry I asked

OK....I am sorry I am so stupid and can't honestly keep up with what/why, the stuff you guys are sharing.

I have 2 years at this towing so far, closing in on 10 thousand pulled thus far, with about 3k more before next spring.
I tow like a slug, never going above 55 unless by accident, and we don't ever dry camp, water tank has never held water, and almost always stay with full hook ups. Clothes and minimum provisions packed in trailer.

When I read a "bump" has the capacity to bend a axle, it makes me think dang, how flimsy of build are we talking about on these trailers?

Is this just a CYA statement by the manufactures, or is that a real concern with pulling on everyday roads and highways?

I was thinking of upgrading to a bigger axle and better tires, not really knowing if that would work, or needed....or if my thinking is akin to betting more money on a horse, thinking it will give it better odds at winning the horse race...

OR....is my worry wart character, and ignorance, just having another go at me?

I not wanting this trailer to fly me to the moon, and given how many folks, how many trailers have been made, and how many have enjoyed them through the years, they are pretty much up to their use, if you use them as intended....right off the shelf?

Thank you for putting up with me, just be glad I am not in the spot next to you

[JRTJH]

As an example, my fifth wheel has two axles each rated at 4400 pounds. The trailer GVWR is 10,000 pounds. That adds up to a negative 1200 pounds of trailer weight given the axles 8800 rating. The way the "current trailer engineering standards go, since the tongue carries about 1800 pounds, my trailer is "overbuilt"....

I don't agree with that type of "engineering magic"...

I have pulled my trailer about 50K miles and have had one "axle issue" when we lost a hub/wheel/tire 2 years ago. Since then, I've just not felt comfortable with the "magic numbers" from Keystone.

This year I ordered two 6K axles to replace my 4400 pound axles. The plan is to install them after the camping season. They haven't yet arrived at the trailer axle repair service that is going to replace them. When they arrive, I'll have a 2000 pound excess capacity plus the pin weight capacity.

It may be "overbuilding on my part" but the last thing I want is another hub failure, especially in the middle of "nowhere" on our next trip, which may be the Alcan Highway, next spring.

If you "go by the trailer engineer's standards, your axles PLUS your tongue weight should give you a slight bit more capacity than your trailer GVWR. If so, then by their numbers, "you'll be OK"....

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

DAMN....almost sorry I asked

OK....I am sorry I am so stupid and can't honestly keep up with what/why, the stuff you guys are sharing.

I have 2 years at this towing so far, closing in on 10 thousand pulled thus far, with about 3k more before next spring.
I tow like a slug, never going above 55 unless by accident, and we don't ever dry camp, water tank has never held water, and almost always stay with full hook ups. Clothes and minimum provisions packed in trailer.

When I read a "bump" has the capacity to bend a axle, it makes me think dang, how flimsy of build are we talking about on these trailers?

Is this just a CYA statement by the manufactures, or is that a real concern with pulling on everyday roads and highways?

I was thinking of upgrading to a bigger axle and better tires, not really knowing if that would work, or needed....or if my thinking is akin to betting more money on a horse, thinking it will give it better odds at winning the horse race...

OR....is my worry wart character, and ignorance, just having another go at me?

I not wanting this trailer to fly me to the moon, and given how many folks, how many trailers have been made, and how many have enjoyed them through the years, they are pretty much up to their use, if you use them as intended....right off the shelf?

Thank you for putting up with me, just be glad I am not in the spot next to you

you are doing fine!


You are driving that trailer many times more than I was driving my car (which is why I traded it in). if you got the bux, and plan on putting that many miles on, if you got a spare $2000 (or less) lying around, larger axles and tires are not a bad idea. Im not easily seeing listings for the ole 4200# non taper axle, but 5200# everywhere with new 12" brakes and decent 15" tires removes that who equation from the "what is gonna break?" worry.


that many miles Id add 1 thing to a weekly check....1 at a time jack up one end of each axle - all 4 ends one a time - and spin the tire while laying next to it and look for cap sep, tread sep and the signs of a broken back...(the tire not you ;-)

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

DAMN....almost sorry I asked

OK....I am sorry I am so stupid and can't honestly keep up with what/why, the stuff you guys are sharing.

I have 2 years at this towing so far, closing in on 10 thousand pulled thus far, with about 3k more before next spring.
I tow like a slug, never going above 55 unless by accident, and we don't ever dry camp, water tank has never held water, and almost always stay with full hook ups. Clothes and minimum provisions packed in trailer.

When I read a "bump" has the capacity to bend a axle, it makes me think dang, how flimsy of build are we talking about on these trailers?

Is this just a CYA statement by the manufactures, or is that a real concern with pulling on everyday roads and highways?

I was thinking of upgrading to a bigger axle and better tires, not really knowing if that would work, or needed....or if my thinking is akin to betting more money on a horse, thinking it will give it better odds at winning the horse race...

OR....is my worry wart character, and ignorance, just having another go at me?

I not wanting this trailer to fly me to the moon, and given how many folks, how many trailers have been made, and how many have enjoyed them through the years, they are pretty much up to their use, if you use them as intended....right off the shelf?

Thank you for putting up with me, just be glad I am not in the spot next to you

See my pm....

[wegone]

Thanks Javi...

[Ken / Claudia]

The what and why comes from looking at the whole picture. Not 1 part of it.
If you know or don't care to know real weights or that's Ok with me. It's your trailer. I do see really stupid stuff in about every campground. Unless they ask, I keep my mouth shut and hope I am not on the same road at same time with some of them.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

DAMN....almost sorry I asked

OK....I am sorry I am so stupid and can't honestly keep up with what/why, the stuff you guys are sharing.

I have 2 years at this towing so far, closing in on 10 thousand pulled thus far, with about 3k more before next spring.
I tow like a slug, never going above 55 unless by accident, and we don't ever dry camp, water tank has never held water, and almost always stay with full hook ups. Clothes and minimum provisions packed in trailer.

When I read a "bump" has the capacity to bend a axle, it makes me think dang, how flimsy of build are we talking about on these trailers?

Is this just a CYA statement by the manufactures, or is that a real concern with pulling on everyday roads and highways?

I was thinking of upgrading to a bigger axle and better tires, not really knowing if that would work, or needed....or if my thinking is akin to betting more money on a horse, thinking it will give it better odds at winning the horse race...

OR....is my worry wart character, and ignorance, just having another go at me?

I not wanting this trailer to fly me to the moon, and given how many folks, how many trailers have been made, and how many have enjoyed them through the years, they are pretty much up to their use, if you use them as intended....right off the shelf?

Thank you for putting up with me, just be glad I am not in the spot next to you

You need to define "bump" there are bumps and there are Bumps.,. I don't know if a trailer axle or spindle can be bent by hitting a small bump in the road. When hitting a nasty pot hole, or hitting an object in the road, or hitting a curb too hard knocks the front end out of alignment on a vehichle it can be caused by the force bending a tie rod or other steering component, or making a component shift where bolts hold it down.

As for weights I think it's only prudent to know what the actual weights are as apposed to anyone telling you "your go to go". There's only one reason in my thinking not to get a rig weighed and that's if you don't want to know, or don't want to confirm your fears.

[wegone]

I am sorta losing context of the replies....some seem a wee bit snide, but that could just be my perception.

The funny, odd thing about these domains is we are not seeing the many folks who have no problems, issues, and are out and about enjoying their lives, as is.

One might think every trailer is prone to leaking and new flooring is needed, or....
Same thing on towing vehicle, you get all sorts of comments, opinions, etc.
I guess its like politics, in a sense.

Bottom line, none of us get out of this life alive, nope,
Be it our trailer breaks and tosses over a cliff, or my wife tosses me over a cliff....
My days were pegged the day I was born, its what I do between those two dates that matters I guess.

Thanks all for the input, I am blessed with the ability to pay others to fix my worries, and maybe that is the best route for me

Edit: I got vaccinated as soon as I could, I didn't worry about side effects or playing politics, or........that is just who I am.

[dutchmensport]

Hitch up and go camping. It might not look right, but if it wasn't right, your trailer would have broken long before now.

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

I am sorta losing context of the replies....some seem a wee bit snide, but that could just be my perception.

The funny, odd thing about these domains is we are not seeing the many folks who have no problems, issues, and are out and about enjoying their lives, as is.

One might think every trailer is prone to leaking and new flooring is needed, or....
Same thing on towing vehicle, you get all sorts of comments, opinions, etc.
I guess its like politics, in a sense.

Bottom line, none of us get out of this life alive, nope,
Be it our trailer breaks and tosses over a cliff, or my wife tosses me over a cliff....
My days were pegged the day I was born, its what I do between those two dates that matters I guess.

Thanks all for the input, I am blessed with the ability to pay others to fix my worries, and maybe that is the best route for me

Edit: I got vaccinated as soon as I could, I didn't worry about side effects or playing politics, or........that is just who I am.

welcome to the interwebs! lol


You are probably ok, ignore any perceived snark. Especially if any was perceived to come from me. Im not about snark.



And if you got the money to pay someone, upgrade anyways, then come visit me if a resident and I can sign the paperwork to get your GVW sticker upgraded, then ya can brag "look what I got"


Just be diligent. You do lotsa miles, treat it as an FAA check...(I wasnt kidding when I said lay down next to it and inspect the trailer tires each week on a long sojourn...)

[wegone]

Originally Posted by quaddriver

welcome to the interwebs! lol


You are probably ok, ignore any perceived snark. Especially if any was perceived to come from me. Im not about snark.



And if you got the money to pay someone, upgrade anyways, then come visit me if a resident and I can sign the paperwork to get your GVW sticker upgraded, then ya can brag "look what I got"


Just be diligent. You do lotsa miles, treat it as an FAA check...(I wasnt kidding when I said lay down next to it and inspect the trailer tires each week on a long sojourn...)

I do the physical check always, that is a no brainer to me.

Funny thing just happened today.
My buddy called and said he was stuck on the side of the road in his Ram Cummins 3/4 ton.
He was pulling his dump trailer, said it just started missing and no power, he pulled onto the shoulder and could move.
He said he thought it was his tranny, the 3rd one he just had installed a month or so ago for 8K.
He said a tow was coming for his truck but he needed me to pull his trailer home.
I said I would come get it.
Got the truck loaded onto the flatbed and moved it out of the way, I moved in and he hooked me up.
I took off and knew right away I had a load, way more than my 7600K I pull with my trailer max.
He rode in the tow truck.
I got to his place and said, Dude, you are over loaded, that trailer is over weight.
He said no way, its just your Ford.
I go nope, your trailer is only rated for 6K and its pulling and pushing me around.
It tells me he has had way more in it, no problem....
He had 4 yards of earth that were laid in by a tractor scooping it up out of a pile, we had lots of rain this week, and I knew it was heavy.

I get home no worse for the wear, but I would never subject my truck to such a load and think its cool.

I google the weight of a yard of dirt : A yard of dirt weighs about 2,200 pounds. That is how heavy it can be when bought in bulk (loose). When you buy it packed tightly (bagged), the weight is reduced given the dirt has been dried. This reduces moisture and, thus, the weight.

I think he killed his truck

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

I do the physical check always, that is a no brainer to me.

Funny thing just happened today.
My buddy called and said he was stuck on the side of the road in his Ram Cummins 3/4 ton.
He was pulling his dump trailer, said it just started missing and no power, he pulled onto the shoulder and could move.
He said he thought it was his tranny, the 3rd one he just had installed a month or so ago for 8K.
He said a tow was coming for his truck but he needed me to pull his trailer home.
I said I would come get it.
Got the truck loaded onto the flatbed and moved it out of the way, I moved in and he hooked me up.
I took off and knew right away I had a load, way more than my 7600K I pull with my trailer max.
He rode in the tow truck.
I got to his place and said, Dude, you are over loaded, that trailer is over weight.
He said no way, its just your Ford.
I go nope, your trailer is only rated for 6K and its pulling and pushing me around.
It tells me he has had way more in it, no problem....
He had 4 yards of earth that were laid in by a tractor scooping it up out of a pile, we had lots of rain this week, and I knew it was heavy.

I get home no worse for the wear, but I would never subject my truck to such a load and think its cool.

I google the weight of a yard of dirt : A yard of dirt weighs about 2,200 pounds. That is how heavy it can be when bought in bulk (loose). When you buy it packed tightly (bagged), the weight is reduced given the dirt has been dried. This reduces moisture and, thus, the weight.

I think he killed his truck

happened to me once....went to ohio to get a 1964 Massey Ferg 65 Diesel, using my 7KGVW beavertail...I ask the guy, no water or calcium right? he says nope. coming home across I80 thru ohio Im getting all beat up. Bless the heart of that little 5.0....it did the job but I was getting wagged.


I get home and pulled the tire cores....out came about 1500lb+ of calcium....car-mate builds a good trailer....

[wegone]

Originally Posted by quaddriver

happened to me once....went to ohio to get a 1964 Massey Ferg 65 Diesel, using my 7KGVW beavertail...I ask the guy, no water or calcium right? he says nope. coming home across I80 thru ohio Im getting all beat up. Bless the heart of that little 5.0....it did the job but I was getting wagged.


I get home and pulled the tire cores....out came about 1500lb+ of calcium....car-mate builds a good trailer....

Well all in all it was a good lesson, learning experience for me.
I now know that 7600 lbs behind my truck feels like a suitcase with wheels pretty much.
I now know what it feels like to be pushed around by what's behind you....

Ain't no way I would ever go on the road and enjoy that trip, nope, no way, no soiree.
If I can't relax and enjoy the ride, I ain't going.