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Old 05-28-2020, 12:07 PM   #1
rodgebone
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AC/Vent Smell

Did a search on here but came up empty so here goes my Q...2020 Outback 291UBH, 9 months old and full timing since new. after a long wet winter I turned on the ventilation fan and then the air conditioner a few days ago. both are exhibiting a mildew odor (like cat urine - I dont have a cat). removed the Coleman Mach ceiling cover and had a look to see if there was any obvious mold or mildew but found none and the screens are clean (didnt see a filter per se but if there is one that would be my next step). Over the winter i did see some condensation dripping from around the fan on occasion so i know there has been moisture in that area. tried spraying some fabreeze up there and into the ducts but that didnt last long. next tried some clorox mildew eliminator in the same cavities above the cover, the ducting and around the evaporator but again the fix was short lived. the evap fins are clean. went up on the roof and removed the cover; no dead animals, plugged drain holes in the condenser drip pan nor evidence of pooled water. the condenser fins are immaculately clean. I'm stumped but guessing there is mildew somewhere around the evap or in the ducting (or a dirty filter that i am not seeing). there is no way to access the ducting to clean it. the smell is not from my roof vent or the fridge. gut feeling is the usual "it's not gonna go away on it's own" the more i run the system. temps are already in the high 80's. any ideas?
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:04 PM   #2
Bob R
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Is it urine or more of a vinegar smell? Whatever smell it is it is possibly some mold build up in the duct work. It happens quite a bit with newer cars and the A/C in them. Different ways to try and get rid of the smell such as an auto AC duct cleaner (enzamatic cleaner) or sometimes an ozone generator but I don't know how that would work with an RV. Absolutely best way is to isolate the duct and replace it, which in an RV is not an easy task. Others may have different suggestions so try them all, easiest to hardest. A good cleaning of your AC unit(s) should also be in order also.

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Old 05-30-2020, 05:08 AM   #3
+Ruff Rider
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I would take it to the dealer and find out how water got in the ductwork. Mold is BAD. You dont want to breath that stuff. This is not something you want to tackle yourself. Sure you can spray junk in there bit there is the problem of how the mold got there in the first place. your RV isn't even a year old yet.
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Old 06-25-2020, 03:53 PM   #4
rodgebone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by +Ruff Rider View Post
I would take it to the dealer and find out how water got in the ductwork. Mold is BAD. You dont want to breath that stuff. This is not something you want to tackle yourself. Sure you can spray junk in there bit there is the problem of how the mold got there in the first place. your RV isn't even a year old yet.
This smell is exactly like cat urine but I know darn well its mildew. I finally found the problem. This is Part 1 from a couple weeks ago while investigating for moisture in the evaporator plenum from inside the trailer via the vent cover on the ceiling. I've seen a bit of moisture in the fan cavity a few times in the past - probably from condensation or an outside water leak forming on the aluminum plate behind the fan and steel fan shaft itself which then dripped down onto the aluminum framework bolted directly to the ceiling. while the moisture was very minor it was obviously wet enough at times to occasionally drip thru one of the screwholes holding the vent cover framework to the ceiling. it's happened half a dozen times over the last 9 months and usually lasts only for a very short time while running the fan or AC (15 minutes or less @ one drop per minute so not a heap of water but still wet nonetheless). I do not see a way to prevent condensation forming on these metal surfaces other than better dehumidifying during the winter months (IF condensation is the actual source). I run a dehumidifier and several EvaDry desiccants and Damp Rid placed strategically throughout the trailer but really i need a bigger dehumidifier irregardless. my theory is this water was flung around by the fan onto the fabric insulation coverings inside the plenum itself. the plenum has foam and cloth-like material attached to it. some of it looks similar to fiberglass (obviously not fiberglass in 2020 but definitely some sort of insulation). i noticed a slight green tinge to it (see photo) as well as some discoloration of the foam material. so im wondering if these materials have absorbed moisture and thus the mildew smell. I do not see any black mold anywhere nor have i ever found it in the wrig; occasionally i see very minute amounts of mildew along the baseboards, under the couch in the slideout on the carpet at the baseboards, around the bunkbed mattresses and in the window sills - but again, it is always very minor and i clean these areas daily to prevent any buildup. im thinking there is a leak somewhere on the roof letting a small amount water in; but its just a theory. maybe its just condensation from the cool Oregon winter despite venting. Will be going up on the roof a second time and taking apart the plenum for a much closer look. Part 2 to follow soon...
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Old 06-25-2020, 03:58 PM   #5
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more pics..................
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Old 06-25-2020, 04:02 PM   #6
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and a few more............
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Old 06-25-2020, 04:15 PM   #7
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I'm pretty sure if you clean your coils and clean out the condensate tray yearly, it would pretty much eliminate that smell. The same in your car, some people run it on Max AC and that doesn't allow the condensate to flush out the line, collects dust and crap and starts to smell. I found in my last rig that if you close vents and open the AC dump into the main cabin until it starts to dry it out and get cold enough it keeps moisture from forming in vents.
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Old 06-25-2020, 06:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northofu1 View Post
I'm pretty sure if you clean your coils and clean out the condensate tray yearly, it would pretty much eliminate that smell. The same in your car, some people run it on Max AC and that doesn't allow the condensate to flush out the line, collects dust and crap and starts to smell. I found in my last rig that if you close vents and open the AC dump into the main cabin until it starts to dry it out and get cold enough it keeps moisture from forming in vents.
Much appreciated Northofu1 for the input and I totally agree with you . but if you look at the evap and condenser coils you will see they are sparkling clean after only 10 months of full timing even before i scrubbed both with clorox mildew remover and a brush (although that doesnt mean they didnt have mildew on them from appearance alone). same for the condenser drip tray. this ac unit has less than 25 hours on it from new. your advice is certainly good annual maintenance that i will surely do every year...but you will see why it wont help when i post part 2 and reveal where the mildew is actually coming from...stay tuned!
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:37 PM   #9
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What is the exterior condensate flow like from the unit?
It should drip off of the trailer gutters quite steadily. Maybe the condensate has nowhere to go or maybe backing up?
On larger commercial air handling units I have seen water infiltration if the condensate pan isn't draining freely.
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Old 06-26-2020, 05:26 AM   #10
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I would caution the OP on the "i scrubbed both with clorox mildew remover and a brush" operation. Those coils are aluminum ad very thin. They also don't play well with some chemicals. I would suggest an aerosol can of foam A/C coil cleaner and a very soft nylon brush, nothing stiffer than a paint brush.
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Old 06-26-2020, 01:58 PM   #11
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PART 2: Sorry for the lengthy posts but I'm an old mechanic and think it prudent to explain the problem and what i found for others who may have the same issue...afterall, that's the entire purpose of these forums. And the problem I found can happen to ANYONE with an RV...

Went back up on the roof and disassembled the sheet metal evaporator plenum and there it was...the plenum on the inlet side of the evap has insulating material on the top and side plates and that material was full of mildew with the majority along the seams where the top and sides screw together. the factory applied two little 2"x2" pieces of ducting tape on the front corners of the plenum where the top and sides screw together but NOTHING along the rest of the seams. I removed the fouled insulation (still a bit more to scrape off yet as you can see in the photos) and cleaned the plenum with mildew remover. went to Home Depot and Lowes for some new insulation but they only carry big rolls so will have to find another solution (maybe reflectix or foam board). I taped all the seams thoroughly. The smell is now pretty much gone but the question remains: why was there moisture there in the first place? was it from condensation over the long wet winter or did rainwater seep into the plenum during travel via the seams that werent taped up? as previously mentioned i did see moisture on the metal fan plate on the downside of the evap as well as the fan shaft itself and there was some minor dripping from the ceiling vent when the ac was on (this happened beginning the first week of ownership). could condensation other than what drips into the drip pan be forming inside the plenum while the unit is running? could this be a lack of ventilation in the plenum? as for the condensate drip pans, they were sparkling clean with no evidence of standing water anywhere and the drains were not clogged (i even watched during operation and they are draining as designed). as for cleaning the evap fins with clorox, too late now Marshall - whats done is done. thoughts? hate to see this happen again. tx in advance for any input - anything is appreciated
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Old 06-26-2020, 01:59 PM   #12
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a few more pics
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:24 AM   #13
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Rodgebone, just a note of thanks for the follow up to your problem.

Many times, on various forums, Folks post questions concerning their problem, get replies,... then never post the solution.

As a fellow member living in the Great North-Wet, I do not believe that your problem is a result of our high humidity and/or condensation. If this was the case there would be thousands of Posts like yours.

I feel that you had/have a water intrusion issue into the A/C unit ....possibly as you described in the lack of Duct tape or something else.

Again, thanks for the follow-up!!!!
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:55 AM   #14
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The fix (part 3):

Went back to Home Depot and found (in the AC/Ducting aisle this time) insulation for the plenum and some very malleable ducting tape. cost about $23 for both the tape and insulation (enough to do the job 4x). So once again took apart the plenum on the roof and scraped off the remaining mildew-infested insulation from the sheet metal. Installed new fresh stuff and thoroughly sealed the seams on the plenum. took about an hour to do and was pretty straight forward. forgot to take pics but here a few from after the install from an inside view while I was removing and replacing the inlet/outlet partition below the evaporator that is probably mildew infested as well. Used foam board and sealed it with the tape to make a replacement. And while I was at it I found a lot of the factory ducting tape had not been applied correctly and more than half of it had peeled loose around the wiring cuts, the ducts and the plenum to ceiling. so resealed those areas with new tape while it was apart. the factory did a pretty sloppy job IMHO as there were gaps all over from poor tape insulation installation that came loose after less than a year so airflow was not going everywhere it is supposed to. not only will the mildew be gone but now the airflow path thru the ceiling ducting be much more direct and efficient.

Basically, I just got some aluminum foil faced 1/2" thick insulation and taped it onto every inch i could access and removed or retaped all the loose factory stuff. Then replaced the cloth material partition. Seems to have done the trick after a couple of hot days of testing.
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