Upgrade rim size and tires

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by jwldmn1

I had hoped to hear more on this thread about equalization of the 5th wheel to the lifted truck. I too have a lifted truck and would like my 5th wheel to be more level. Without getting into all of the fab work that has caused so much drama on this thread, is there a safe way to lift the 5th wheel a bit? So much weight has shifted to the rear that the front one is super light and it causes the kingpin to bounce the truck around a bit.

**sorry, I have no idea why the one picture is upside down, it wasn’t taken that way but every time I upload it here it does that.

I changed the name and flipped it. Click on it to enlarge and see new pix name.

[larryflew]

Originally Posted by hornet28

Lets see. 1941 Ford, Nova subframe, chopped top, other than stock size wheels and tires, shaved door handles, tinted glass, converted to 4 whl disc brakes, 454 BBC, 700R4 automatic, and the list goes on. In the opinion of some on here it's illegal. I have too wonder why then a well know old car insurance company has insured it for $60K +

Sounds like a MAJOR problem. GM parts for a Ford that is. Sounds like NASCAR, looks like a Ford but....................

[crowbar]

Now after burning out 3 pairs of glasses, I vote that the most sensible post worth taking home was #14 by Darrel!

[jwldmn1]

Thanks!!! Anyone have thoughts on this?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jwldmn1

Thanks!!! Anyone have thoughts on this?

If you've read the entire thread, all 7 pages of it, and are asking for "more thoughts on the topics covered ad nauseum" then it must really REALLY be a boring day where you're located !!!!!

[jwldmn1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If you've read the entire thread, all 7 pages of it, and are asking for "more thoughts on the topics covered ad nauseum" then it must really REALLY be a boring day where you're located !!!!!

No, If you read my previous post you would know that I asked for opinions on lifting my 5th wheel to equalize with the lift on my truck. Someone replied and fixed the picture I posted, but no comment on the actual question.

[notanlines]

Jason, I'm a little confused as to what your question is. If you are under the impression that lifting your RV 2" would shift any weight onto the king pin, you are mistaken. You might find that the front axle on the RV would weigh 30 pounds more, but that's about it.
I would be curious to know what your numbers are on the CAT scale. The little bit your RV rides nose high is certainly not something to worry about.
And maybe expound a little about the king pin tossing your truck around.

[jwldmn1]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Jason, I'm a little confused as to what your question is. If you are under the impression that lifting your RV 2" would shift any weight onto the king pin, you are mistaken. You might find that the front axle on the RV would weigh 30 pounds more, but that's about it.
I would be curious to know what your numbers are on the CAT scale. The little bit your RV rides nose high is certainly not something to worry about.
And maybe expound a little about the king pin tossing your truck around.

Maybe I am mistaken, I don’t know, that’s why I posted the question in the first place. The best way I can describe what it doing to the trailer is to compare it to when I had adjustable hitch too high on my bumper pull. The weight of the camper caused the hitch to bounce around (best way I can describe it) and I turn my truck to “shutter” frontwards and backwards. That is what’s happening now due to there not being enough tongue weight due to the front being so much higher than the back. I’ve never heard of anyone lifting a 5th wheel, and I’m not sure how I’d feel about the safety factor, in just trying to come up with options. I put my generator in the front storage of the camper, but that didn’t help much. BTW I have a 2019 Keystone Sprinter 32FWBH.

[notanlines]

Now I see what you're talking about The shimmy on the front end of your truck is very likely caused by the 4" lift coupled with a pin weight of probably in the 2200 pounds or better. It wouldn't surprise me if your payload has gone well beyond that. The one way we can all give you some guidance is to see the ticket from the CAT scale and the picture of the yellow sticker on the pillar of your truck.

[jwldmn1]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Now I see what you're talking about The shimmy on the front end of your truck is very likely caused by the 4" lift coupled with a pin weight of probably in the 2200 pounds or better. It wouldn't surprise me if your payload has gone well beyond that. The one way we can all give you some guidance is to see the ticket from the CAT scale and the picture of the yellow sticker on the pillar of your truck.

I’m 90% sure it is not an issue of too much tongue weight. And it isn’t the “front end shimmy” it’s the entire truck shifting front/back and/or the kingpin “bouncing” up and down. Honestly the camper doesn’t make the truck squat at all.....maybe an inch? It’s like when you are towing any trailer and your weight is predominantly behind the axles....it causes the front end to be too light and Boyce. The cant to the rear of my setup is causing the same things

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jwldmn1

I’m 90% sure it is not an issue of too much tongue weight. And it isn’t the “front end shimmy” it’s the entire truck shifting front/back and/or the kingpin “bouncing” up and down. Honestly the camper doesn’t make the truck squat at all.....maybe an inch? It’s like when you are towing any trailer and your weight is predominantly behind the axles....it causes the front end to be too light and Boyce. The cant to the rear of my setup is causing the same things

Are you describing "chucking"? More noticeable transitioning bridges? In my opinion lifted trucks, especially on "fat" off road tires don't make good tow vehicles. Changing the geometry of the suspension and large aggressive tread tires add to instability. You can raise the trailer to match the truck and then you have both truck and trailer with a higher center of gravity. JMHO

[lunge motorsport]

Again Calvin…


Read the ENTIRE section…most importantly “Purpose” and “Intent”, and then explain to me how I am taking any of this out of context. Your posts show that “you specifically” are taking regulations out of context.


The rules about regs are simple. Read all that apply and then apply all of the regs using purpose and intent as the guidelines. If they don’t apply, it doesn’t matter how YOU spin it, it doesn’t matter.


Now stop telling people who want to upgrade wheels and tires or raise the ride height of their rigs that they need to get Federal certifications to perform end user mods. Not once did the OP, nor I for that matter, indicate that the reason for the mods were to increase GVWR. Not once did anyone say that they wanted to reclassify their rig to a higher GVWR.



I, as an end user of my trailer, are under no obligation nor am I required to obtain, any Federal certifications, welding or otherwise, to modify my trailer. Unless, and here is where I bring it home Calvin, I want to recertify it at a higher GVWR. Period!


For Chrissakes!

[hornet28]

Originally Posted by larryflew

Sounds like a MAJOR problem. GM parts for a Ford that is. Sounds like NASCAR, looks like a Ford but....................

A major problem doesn't reach 99K mi. Besides Henry built them with GM motors in mind that's why they fit better than Fords.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Are you describing "chucking"? More noticeable transitioning bridges? In my opinion lifted trucks, especially on "fat" off road tires don't make good tow vehicles. Changing the geometry of the suspension and large aggressive tread tires add to instability. You can raise the trailer to match the truck and then you have both truck and trailer with a higher center of gravity. JMHO

I think Marshall has hit the nail on the head. Lifted trucks, lifted RVs are just unstable. You can't keep raising the center of gravity, and all the suspension components, then apply large amounts of weight to them, the laws of physics when in motion etc. and think all is going to "feel right"....it won't, and don't. Nor is it safe. Lifted trucks and large RVs are a nemesis.

[traynoral]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

I changed the name and flipped it. Click on it to enlarge and see new pix name.

Attachment 27103

I had a trailer place put 2 inch steel blocks between my axles and my leaf springs. That made a huge difference and I have at least 5,000 miles on that with no issues.

[traynoral]

Originally Posted by lunge motorsport

Again Calvin…


Read the ENTIRE section…most importantly “Purpose” and “Intent”, and then explain to me how I am taking any of this out of context. Your posts show that “you specifically” are taking regulations out of context.


The rules about regs are simple. Read all that apply and then apply all of the regs using purpose and intent as the guidelines. If they don’t apply, it doesn’t matter how YOU spin it, it doesn’t matter.


Now stop telling people who want to upgrade wheels and tires or raise the ride height of their rigs that they need to get Federal certifications to perform end user mods. Not once did the OP, nor I for that matter, indicate that the reason for the mods were to increase GVWR. Not once did anyone say that they wanted to reclassify their rig to a higher GVWR.



I, as an end user of my trailer, are under no obligation nor am I required to obtain, any Federal certifications, welding or otherwise, to modify my trailer. Unless, and here is where I bring it home Calvin, I want to recertify it at a higher GVWR. Period!


For Chrissakes!

Yes, correct. I am not trying to increase GVWR or anything like that. I just want the trailer to ride a little more level and have tires on there that are not so close to their max load riding on them.

[traynoral]

So it is officially done. I upgraded from 225/75/R15 to 235/80/R16 Goodyear Endurance Tires on 16 inch steel wheels. See before and after pictures below. I have not driven with them yet but will post as soon as I do.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by lunge motorsport

I, as an end user of my trailer, are under no obligation nor am I required to obtain, any Federal certifications, welding or otherwise, to modify my trailer. Unless, and here is where I bring it home, I want to recertify it at a higher GVWR. Period!


For Chrissakes!

That is mostly true, as long as you don't violate safety standards.

Basic, allowable modifications, are defined in the vehicle certification regulation.

Precedents cannot be overlooked because they form the basis for all future actions. It's one of the reasons I referenced the "Vehicle In Use Inspection Standards" regulation. It's not binding unless it's applied. However, it provides minimum compliance actions once applied.

A simple example: A consumer is replacing all their tires on an RV trailer. The OE size depicted on the vehicle certification label is ST225/75R15 and the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for all of those tires is certified at 65 PSI which sets the minimum load capacity for any subsequent/replacement tires. The consumer want's a little more load capacity reserves from the replacement tires and has higher load capacity tires installed as replacements. IF the replacement tires have a designated size of ST225/75R15 and will provide an equal or greater load capacity than the OE tires, there is zero size upgrade. Just tires of the same basic size as the OE tires with a little more load capacity. Load Range is not part of a tire's designated size.

A reader of government regulations must first determine who the regulations are addressing. For instance, the FMVSS (standards) are mandatory minimum compliance standards the vehicle manufacturer MUST comply with.

One of the most widely misunderstood FMVSS standard is about tire load capacity. The standard says tires fitted to RV trailer axles must provide a load capacity equal to vehicle certified GAWR (s). That statement is not directed at the consumer. It's sets the starting point for vehicle manufacturers selection for tires they deem appropriate for that vehicle. Once they select and fit the OE designated tire size and recommended cold inflation pressures they become the minimum standard for that vehicle. That information is then placed on the vehicle certification label.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by traynoral

So it is officially done. I upgraded from 225/75/R15 to 235/80/R16 Goodyear Endurance Tires on 16 inch steel wheels. See before and after pictures below. I have not driven with them yet but will post as soon as I do.

It might help some to become more educated if you could post the full information (Size, Load Range, Tire load capacity, plus GAWR and inflation level as seen on your certification label) So we can see the increase in reserve Load you gained by applying tires the RV company should have selected originally.

[traynoral]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

It might help some to become more educated if you could post the full information (Size, Load Range, Tire load capacity, plus GAWR and inflation level as seen on your certification label) So we can see the increase in reserve Load you gained by applying tires the RV company should have selected originally.

Absolutely. Old tires were e rated 10 Ply with a weight capacity of 2,860. New tires are also 10 Ply e rated and have a weight capacity of 3,420 lbs. Wheels are 16 steel dexstar with a weight capacity of 3,050 My fifth wheel has dual 5,200 lb axles and has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,500 lbs.