Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Fifth Wheels
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-09-2020, 08:14 AM   #1
Boudreau
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Beaverton
Posts: 5
Lippert Level Up Leveling Jacks System

We recently purchased a 2020 Montana model 3120RL. We had a problem a month ago with our front jacks losing pressure and sagging. We took it to the dealer where we bought it. They contacted Lippert who said a different fluid needed to be used. They changed out the fluid and put the recommended fluid in.

We recently went on a long trip. The front leveling jacks functioned fine for about 3 1/2 weeks. We went to leave our camp. Raised the jacks only to see both front jacks sag about 6-7 inches. I raised them back up and the held momentarily and sagged again after about 7 min making it unsafe to travel.

We couldn’t get the jacks back up. The manual over ride didn’t work. After talking directly to Lippert (the jack manufacturer) I had to crack the hydraulic lines leading the jack in order to raise the jack and secure them in the up position making it safe to travel home for repairs. Sadly these hydraulic systems are interconnected with the room slides rendering them inoperable.

Has anybody else experienced this problem? Are these hydraulic systems usually reliable. Is it a recall issue? Is it a “one off” and we just got unlucky. It is really disappointing that such a new trailer would have such a catastrophic failure and has caused me to loose confidence in the trailer. We do a lot of boondocking so unreliability is not a good thing.

Any thought and information would be greatly appreciated.
Boudreau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 08:43 AM   #2
bobbecky
Senior Member
 
bobbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,897
You probably have a valve that is not working or is not adjusted correctly. The only issue we have had is one leaking jack, and not from the ram part but from the seals at the top, and I have just added fluid occasionally. Other than that, and we are full time, have not had any issues with the system not working for eight years with this rig.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
bobbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 09:52 AM   #3
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
Since it’s just the front LG that creep down one of three things will cause this and nothing else...

1. One of the two front LG is leaking internally and fluid is bypassing this you loose hyd pressure on those two front LG to hold them up

There is a quick and easy test to determine exactly which one ... if any is leaking

2. The front LG has one solenoid mounted on one of the LG leg Assy and I’d it is not closing prospect or the manual overiride set screw is not closed you will loose pressure

3. You have air in the system. You can purge this by cycling all levelers full up and full down 3 to 5 times

Pic is the solenoid valve you need to check on the front LG
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	35368874-F21A-4AD3-B2F2-3905BCBDE388.jpeg
Views:	301
Size:	442.5 KB
ID:	30266  
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2020, 04:08 PM   #4
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
Wonder if the OP tried bleeding the hyd system...
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 04:33 AM   #5
Boudreau
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Beaverton
Posts: 5
Thank you for the information. I appreciate it very much.
Boudreau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 05:24 AM   #6
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
I don’t think you understand how to manually raise or lower your six point level up system... the manual over ride works just fine provided you manually open the solenoids with an Allen wrench and use a cordless drill wot( 1/4 bit to run the hyd pump

Lipperts instructions are decent but vague on where the solenoid are to manually override the level up system...

If you bleed your system as I stated and still get creeping front LG then you either have a solenoid that’s not fully closed ... and this can be caused by the manual override screw on solenoid not being secured OR you have an internal leak on one of the two front LG..

Nothing else will cause this..

I’ve attached my version of Lipperts six point level up manual override steps ... your unit will be similar.

You have to locate the manifold where the left and right mid/rear levelers solenoid valves are mounted as well as the front LG solenoid..

You manually open either left or right mid/rear solenoid valve and use drill to run pump motor to retract or extend. Close valve manually and repast for other side...

Same procedure for front LG... solenoid will be either on left or right front LG..

I’ve also attached links for Lipperts easy to follow steps to bleed your hyd system... and how to test for internally leaking hyd cylinder.

If you don’t have the skill sets any competent FV repair tech can do the internal bleed check in less than 15 minutes

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0001901.pdf

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001910.pdf

In the future NEVER crack open a hyd line on the level up system to manually extend or retract levelers or slide outs..

If someone told you this is how to do it they simply are wrong and don’t know the system nor do they have a clue about what they are talking about
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 08:05 AM   #7
LewisB
Senior Member
 
LewisB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
Good advice. I'd also recommend you go through this manual process at least once at home, making sure you have the tools and knowledge you need to accomplish the process. We found that we needed a 90° drill adaptor in order to reach the end of the motor shaft.

Out on the road when you REALLY need this system to work is not the best time to discover you don't have the right tools and don't know how to deal with the issue. JMHO
__________________
Brad & Penny (50 years!)
2017 F350 DRW CC 4x4 Payload=5560
2018 Raptor 353TS
2019 Can Am Maverick Sport XRC - the "Blue Goose"

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjc...yZ_w7jyofaPLVQ
LewisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 12:16 PM   #8
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
For the OP... the hyd levelers are held up or down by 2000 psi of hyd pressure. They are not interconnected to the slide outs at all.. separate pressure and return lines and separate solenoid valves... when you cracked open that line to manually shove the levelers up and strap up I guarantee you induced additional air into those lines.

Do the air purge procedure as outlet in the link I provided and monitor ... I’d leave the front LG down and retract mid/rear levelers and monitor for a few days while at home for any evidence of creep down
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 12:58 PM   #9
Boudreau
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Beaverton
Posts: 5
Clarifying Information

Thank you, everyone for the additional information.

Here's some clarifying information.

1. We tried the manual override using a drill, unfortunately it did not work.
2. We called Lippert technical support customer service number. They were the ones that told us to "crack" the lines in order to manually retract the front jacks with a crowbar so we could wire them up with a coat hanger and at least travel home.
3. Lippert technical support also was also who told us that the two main slides are interconnected with the leveling jacks system. We found this out when we tried to get the slide the rest of the way retracted (it was hanging out 2 inches ) and it forces the front jack down breaking one of the coat hangers.

I appreciate everyone's input as I'm learning a lot. Thankfully it is still under warranty and hopefully the dealer can sort it all out when we drop off the trailer tomorrow. Wish us luck.

Rhett
Boudreau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 02:13 PM   #10
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
If you pst a pic of the front LG leveler solenoid I can help you with your manual override...

Nothing is going to move if you don’t use an Allen wrench and manually turn the solenoid screw of what you are trying to move with the hyd system pump

Lippert quite frankly gave you BAD information

I gather the hyd pump and motor functioned when you closed the slides and retracted the leveling system ?

The reason that coat hanger busted is because you have a solenoid valve that wasn’t closed manually on that front LG and when you spun the hyd pump with a drill the pressure from the pump went right thru the front LG and drive it down

If so then manual over ride will work ... but you have to understand to use manual over ride you have to open up each solenoid ... one at a time ... use drill to spin the hyd pump and then close solenoid valve and open the next one...

The slides (hyd) and all levelers are held in or retracted via hyd pressure.

And the hyd levelers are not connected to the hyd slide outs ... that’s the purpose of the manifold and solenoid valves so that the systems are independent of each other.

I know this system like the back of my hand and Lipper Tech Supprt that gave you that info should work elsewhere
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 02:28 PM   #11
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
Here is a pic of a Hydac cartridge valve used on the Lippert level up system as well as the hyd slide outs

Note red arrow... this must be manually opened ... then run pump with drill.. then manually close before moving on to the next valve...if you don’t close the valve the hyd pressure will continue to flow thru the valve assy and move the hyd piston... be it a level up leg or a hyd slide out actuator
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	81170268-A526-4849-AFEA-0A9108049100.jpeg
Views:	250
Size:	30.6 KB
ID:	30294  
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 02:48 PM   #12
Lmchamblee
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Anderson
Posts: 3
We’ve replaced each side on our 2017 carbon. One under warranty one out pocket a $650.00 repair on one. They are interconnected! But with repair no other problems. They sagged and popped when we’re trying to sleep. Didn’t have to override but will keep in mind the 90 degree drill adapter because at this point will fill sure will give again.
Lmchamblee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 04:25 PM   #13
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
Yes.. the front LG are in tandem.. and the mid/rear levelers on each side are also in tandem...

But none of them are connected to the hyd slide outs.

If one front LG leaks internally it will affect the other because the hyd hoses are tandem from one to another... however.. the front LG will not affect the left or right side levelers.

These 3 leveling circuits hyd pressure flow is controlled separately via their own respective Hydac valve.


Also... the front LG hyd leg can usually be rebuilt by any decent hyd shop provided the internal section of the assy is not scored too much...

Cost usually less than $150 to rebuild a front LG Lippert assy
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2020, 08:01 AM   #14
LewisB
Senior Member
 
LewisB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmchamblee View Post
We’ve replaced each side on our 2017 carbon. One under warranty one out pocket a $650.00 repair on one. They are interconnected! But with repair no other problems. They sagged and popped when we’re trying to sleep. Didn’t have to override but will keep in mind the 90 degree drill adapter because at this point will fill sure will give again.
The popping is a known problem - you may need to add some anti-stiction fluid to address this problem. The fluid is readily available (e.g. Amazon). Here the LCI service bulletin:

Lippert_TI-191_adding-anti-stiction-fluid-to-hydraulic-systems.pdf

Hope this helps.
__________________
Brad & Penny (50 years!)
2017 F350 DRW CC 4x4 Payload=5560
2018 Raptor 353TS
2019 Can Am Maverick Sport XRC - the "Blue Goose"

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjc...yZ_w7jyofaPLVQ
LewisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2020, 05:27 PM   #15
Lmchamblee
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Anderson
Posts: 3
Hydraulic lippert jacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmchamblee View Post
We’ve replaced each side on our 2017 carbon. One under warranty one out pocket a $650.00 repair on one. They are interconnected! But with repair no other problems. They sagged and popped when we’re trying to sleep. Didn’t have to override but will keep in mind the 90 degree drill adapter because at this point will fill sure will give again.
Thanks for the new info on getting them rebuilt next time. Hopefully no more next time. But we do love the automatic leveling system on our keystone Carbon.
Lmchamblee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
jacks, leveling

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.