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Old 05-24-2019, 03:30 PM   #1
GeekSquadOfUn
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High brake lamp?

Has anyone ever attempted to install a high brake lamp to their 5th wheel or travel trailer?

The challenge is fishing the brake light wiring from the bottom...

Just curious to see if ideas pop up. I sure would love to have that extra light shine when I brake, I noticed some Class À motorhome have one.

Thanks
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:22 PM   #2
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Class A's use standard automobile type brake lights, trailers use combo of left and right directionals. I'm not sure how you would keep half from blinking in turns. Two lights mounted near center might do the trick, JM2¢, Hank
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:58 PM   #3
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Huh?

It's a different circuit for brake lights.
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Old 05-24-2019, 06:07 PM   #4
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No the brake lights and turn signals use the same wire. There are only two wires feeding the rear lights. Look at a bulb and you will see there are two elements, one for brake/turn signal and one for tail lights. Or look a plug wiring diagram, one terminal for turn/brake and one for tail lights. For a vehicle with a higher brake light it's a dedicated wire for just that light
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Old 05-24-2019, 06:25 PM   #5
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Installing a 2 to 3 wire converter, you're able to get a connection for a 3rd brake light.

Again the real challenge is getting the wire to that 3rd lamp...
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Old 05-24-2019, 06:40 PM   #6
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You could've said what you were planning on using when you asked.
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Old 05-24-2019, 06:43 PM   #7
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IMO, it’s more work than worth the bother. We have drilled holes and fished the wiring about 1/2 up on both sides to install vertical LEDs.
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:00 PM   #8
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Guess so.

So, 2 vertical LED lights above the puny lights could improve visibility. That would be easier to wire.

Sad that manufactures will only act if it's mandated by law, it would be a worthwhile addition, well in my opinion.
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekSquadOfUn View Post
Guess so.

So, 2 vertical LED lights above the puny lights could improve visibility. That would be easier to wire.

Sad that manufactures will only act if it's mandated by law, it would be a worthwhile addition, well in my opinion.

It’s about cost. Public wants “affordable”, manufacturer wants profits...
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:54 AM   #10
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Geek, let me step out here and be a little confrontational (Oh, yes, a first for me).
With your statement "It would be a worthwhile addition, well in my opinion" that it is worthwhile, but you aren't willing to pay for it or you already would have had it done and paid for it.
Where would we stop with all the goodies that people want added to their Cougar? We take a perfectly nice Cougar at $45K, add about 350 nice, little gadgets and comfort trinkets here and there and post that same RV at $59K instead. Oh, did I mention that now your F250, already overloaded, won't do the trick so the F350 is on the horizon to pull that heavy beast.
Okay, I'll get off that soapbox for now. I happen to agree with you that there are many RV's that could use more for brake/turn lights. Maybe set your sights not quite so high and settle for up about 2/3 of the way. And when you drill that first hole in your filon, do it very easy-like with a brand new hole saw and at high speed.
And thanks for your years of service, by the way.
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Old 05-25-2019, 05:44 AM   #11
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When we first bought our Cougar, my DW was following me in her SUV to a campground. She called me on the phone and asked me to please use the turn signals before turning, so she could follow me easier. I told her I was using them. It was a bright, sunny day, she simply couldn't tell if the turn signals were working or not. We stopped, checked the lights, and sure enough, they were working perfectly (in the shade) but difficult to see in the sun.....

That weekend, I bought replacement LED lights for the Cougar. I specifically chose Bargman surface mount devices because they would completely cover the old tail light mounting area. They have been in place for 6 years now, never a problem, and they're significantly brighter than the older incandescent tail lights used by the manufacturer. https://www.towuniverse.com/Bargman-...iABEgJmxPD_BwE

As Jim said, if all our "wishes came true" a competitively priced RV would cost significantly more than any of us would pay to drag it home and most of us would need a tow vehicle upgrade to pull the additional weight..... So, be careful what you wish for, you might get "bigger black tanks" (one member's wish) with a "hole in the middle to install a S&B toilet" (another member's wish) while you get "improved passthrough cargo doors" on one side" and "just eliminate the damn things" on the other side" (another two member's wishes)...

If you go back to the "origin of the CMBL" you'll learn that it wasn't a "high mount brake light" but intended to be "at eye level to improve safety and visibility". When you sit "behind most RV's you'll quickly learn that the existing location IS at eye level", so the problem really isn't location as much as it is "the brightness of the existing incandescent bulb".

Here's what my new LED tail lights look like and trust me when I say, you can see them from half a mile back when I apply the brakes. For me, it was worth the $60 investment, that now has increased to about a $90 investment. But, I wouldn't "insist" that the manufacturer install them on every trailer they make because, if they did, you'd have to pay for something I want that you may find "totally useless" for the way you use your RV......
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Old 05-25-2019, 07:33 AM   #12
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Thank you all, wise words for sure.

Will consider my options.
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Old 06-05-2019, 04:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
When we first bought our Cougar, my DW was following me in her SUV to a campground. She called me on the phone and asked me to please use the turn signals before turning, so she could follow me easier. I told her I was using them. It was a bright, sunny day, she simply couldn't tell if the turn signals were working or not. We stopped, checked the lights, and sure enough, they were working perfectly (in the shade) but difficult to see in the sun.....

That weekend, I bought replacement LED lights for the Cougar. I specifically chose Bargman surface mount devices because they would completely cover the old tail light mounting area. They have been in place for 6 years now, never a problem, and they're significantly brighter than the older incandescent tail lights used by the manufacturer. https://www.towuniverse.com/Bargman-...iABEgJmxPD_BwE

As Jim said, if all our "wishes came true" a competitively priced RV would cost significantly more than any of us would pay to drag it home and most of us would need a tow vehicle upgrade to pull the additional weight..... So, be careful what you wish for, you might get "bigger black tanks" (one member's wish) with a "hole in the middle to install a S&B toilet" (another member's wish) while you get "improved passthrough cargo doors" on one side" and "just eliminate the damn things" on the other side" (another two member's wishes)...

If you go back to the "origin of the CMBL" you'll learn that it wasn't a "high mount brake light" but intended to be "at eye level to improve safety and visibility". When you sit "behind most RV's you'll quickly learn that the existing location IS at eye level", so the problem really isn't location as much as it is "the brightness of the existing incandescent bulb".

Here's what my new LED tail lights look like and trust me when I say, you can see them from half a mile back when I apply the brakes. For me, it was worth the $60 investment, that now has increased to about a $90 investment. But, I wouldn't "insist" that the manufacturer install them on every trailer they make because, if they did, you'd have to pay for something I want that you may find "totally useless" for the way you use your RV......
Thanks for the link. I've been looking for about a year and hadn't seen these for some reason. I wanted leds that fully covered the old spot. I may also add smaller ones up higher.
It would cost the RV manufacturer nothing to just mount lights up higher on the tail. Brighter would be good also.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:35 AM   #14
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Manufacturers prefer to focus on "Full extension wooden drawers, screwed not stapled, hand crafted by Amish!"
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:48 AM   #15
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Manufacturers prefer to focus on "Full extension wooden drawers, screwed not stapled, hand crafted by Amish!"
The reason for that (IMHO) is because far too many buyers "focus on the bling" rather than on sensible, operational components. Keystone, Forest River, Winnebago and "all the rest" focus on making money by giving the public what they will buy, not what they need.

Trust me when I say that the marketing division of any successful business has more "say in future changes" than the engineering department.

Same concept with going to the proctologist for our 5 year checkup. I've yet to see people lined up for a colonoscopy, but they (we) all line up every day at lunch for a "burger at BK". It's what we want, not what we need that drives us to one or the other of those lines..... Can't blame the manufacturers for giving us what we want.....
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:17 AM   #16
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Good point.

Reminds me of this phrase I heard

Do you know why Asian car makers beat The Big 3 ? They made cars people wanted to buy.
Why did the Big 3 fail, because they made cars they wanted to sell. They eventually woke up.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:39 AM   #17
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I replaced my Stop, Tail, Brake lights with the same ones JRTJH did in his post above, They are so much brighter its crazy.
Well worth the money.
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Old 06-09-2019, 04:25 AM   #18
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JRTJH

Did you have to add the license plate light? For my camper the left brake light does double duty with a clear segment at the bottom of the red lens.

SuperBrightLEDs makes a motorcycle light with red and white LEDs but it is a straight design. I suggested they make a 90 degree model for campers. I haven't followed up to see if they did so.
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:51 AM   #19
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Yes I did install a separate license plate light under the tail light on the roadside. It's easy to see the separate light in the photo I included in post #11. If I remember correctly, it was about $6, now they're about $10. While I had the tail lights off, I connected the license plate light wiring to the tail light wiring (easy access in the hole that Keystone cut under the tail light).

One example: https://www.amazon.com/Stud-Mount-LE...8-2-spons&th=1 Be sure to order the Bracket Mount style, not the Stud Mount style.

ADDED: Hodgy just posted his install (complete with U-Tube video) of these lights in post #120 in this thread: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...=31016&page=12
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:30 AM   #20
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2 questions for John and anyone else who has replaced their OEM with the Bargman #84 tail lights.

Was it a simple install - as far as I’ve head some LED taillights don’t blink correctly (or is it that they aren’t bright enough?) when hooked up to a truck because the truck senses a difference between the elec usage of the LED and an incandescent bulb? So are these a simple remove old Bargman incandescent sand install these? Or is there another step to make the LED work correctly?

Do you have to have a license plate light on the camper? Because ours from the factory didn’t have a light on the taillight assembly for the license plate.
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