Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Fifth Wheels
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-23-2013, 01:01 PM   #1
scopx
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 13
More GFI Problems

This saga began when wife complained about several 120 outlets had failed to work. The inspection revealed a water leak from Suburban water heater which is covered in another thread.
After converting to electric water heater did wire nut 120 line, remove and or isolate 12VDC lines and switches, and turn breaker off.
The GFCI "brick" wall outlet (as called in other threads) has 2 wire circuits that service (Circuit one) (some) kitchen plugs, ceiling fan, and (Circuit two)outlets in bedroom area. It is equipped with the infamous "Vampire" closed type outlets.

Circuit one showed no problems, so did not change out any of the outlets. However Circuit two shows .00375 amps and a varying resistance. All of the outlets that I can locate have been either isolated (vampire outlets removed) or replaced with "real" ones.
The resistance "acts" like a capacitor discharging within the circuit as fluxs from 37>41 set on the 200K range when sampling the B>G.
The resistance fluxs from 44>0 when sampling B>N.
The resistance varies 109>88 sampling N>G.
When meter changed to a higher or lower setting, readings were not as accurate.
Voltage was made taken on the DCV as AC would not read such small numbers. Therefore, not sure of DC voltage readings of
B>N of .25 V
B>G of .3 V
N>G of .06 V

I first replaced the GFI unit, knowing it would not be that easy, sure enough, no easy way out.
These high resistance numbers (in reading) suggest water in the romex. Have left area open to dry from water leak. And can find no area that line should have been saturated or standing in water.
Based on my small understanding of the system, the generator is hooked from the bat>generator>12V fuse panel>indiv 12V wiring circuits.
My assumption is there is not direction connection between gen>120VAC.
But am not familiar with converter to address issue. The flux occurs as is on an "unpowered" circuit.
Could it be "sensing" another line laying nearby?
Any direction. Anybody been down this road?
Thanks
Tom
BTW, did find a black tank water leak at the drain fitting joint after pulling the winter bottom covering off.
scopx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 01:36 PM   #2
hankpage
Site Team
 
hankpage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Venice
Posts: 5,346
AC meter will not read because there is no AC current available. You are reading residual energy (not the proper term but I know that resident electricians will correct) from other wires running near the wire in question even if both ends were disconnected. Sometimes a little knowledge of electricity can be dangerous.

Quote "After converting to electric water heater did wire nut 120 line, remove and or isolate 12VDC lines and switches, and turn breaker off." I hope not in that order????

Please find someone qualified to trace this problem for you or with you, it can be VERY dangerous. Disconnect from shore power and start again. JM2¢, Hank
__________________
Hank & Lynn
2007 Cougar 290RKS, E-Z Flex, 16" XPS RIBs ( SOLD .. Gonna miss her ... looking for new 5r)
2004.5 Dodge 2500 QC, LB, 5.9HO, WestTach gauges, Ride-Rite
hankpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 06:36 AM   #3
scopx
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 13
Thanks for the quick reply Hank.
You are quite right, the order of killing the old circuit was reversed. Please excuse my promotion of incorrect procedures here. One would surmise, that anyone attempting these exercises would have basic knowledge of electricity, I am asking questions after laying out general procedures,not providing a tutorial.Perhaps I should have stated a disclaimer at the start of remarks.
I have worked in hot boxes and pucker factor goes up a tad.I do not claim to be an electrician but have had a little experience as installed 2/0 copper underground in conduit to 2 story barn workshop and inside wiring as well on a 150Amp boxes on both ends. (Did I put that in correct order?) As a trencher was used to replace the digging, did find water lines on property The install was subsequently approved by "official approved "electrical inspector and tied into the mains. Sorry, leaving out a lot involved in the process.

Maybe I should be a little more specific in questions.

Does anyone know of a capacitor in the 120VAC system? The meter acts like capacitor "bounce" (my term). A qualifiedl electrician would use the proper name.
Any constructive input?
Tom
scopx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 08:33 AM   #4
hankpage
Site Team
 
hankpage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Venice
Posts: 5,346
Since you said it is on the same circuit, your ceiling fan may have a startup capacitor. Your A/C unit for fan and compressor start may also. I was hoping the order of your testing was just a typo, but you can see where it would make me nervous.
__________________
Hank & Lynn
2007 Cougar 290RKS, E-Z Flex, 16" XPS RIBs ( SOLD .. Gonna miss her ... looking for new 5r)
2004.5 Dodge 2500 QC, LB, 5.9HO, WestTach gauges, Ride-Rite
hankpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 12:34 PM   #5
scopx
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 13
Input on "capacitor bounce" on circuit?

Thanks for the reply.
I had suspected a fan problem and did isolate the switch and ceiling fan, and light "out of the circuit" after testing.
Both AC units are on other circuits.
Also thought maybe the smoke detector could have capacitor, but when checked was 4.5 DC only!
Appreciate the input.
The 5500watt generator could have a capacitor, however, it is on the "line" side which was isolated out of testing.
Thanks again for the counsel.

Input anyone?
scopx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 11:07 AM   #6
scopx
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 13
In spite of myself, did find the problem

Did stumble upon the elusive GFI problem. Long story short, the water from the Suburban heater must have "pig trailed" down a wire into a well sealed junction box about 3 feet (horizontally) away from heater. as the heater sits about 2 feet inside frame, and box was on outside of frame. Outside of box was bone dry and water started to drain when retaining screws were loosened.The box held 2 circuits, one above water level? still working.The box was about half full of water.
I still do not know why there was a capacitor type bounce on resistance checks.Perhaps the DVM.
Willl take photo when find camera, and have blown out area to speed drying.
Now I have to put all this crap back together.
Tom
PS: Pig trails or trailed is old time okie word. .
.
scopx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.