electricAL outlet issues

TNT88 · 02-22-2015, 09:11 PM

We were camping the other night and watching movies. The only thing that was on was DVD player and tv. All lights lights were off. No other power source was being used then all the sudden the tv shut off and the fridge went from ac to gas. 7 of my 9 outlets have no 110 power only outlets that had power was bathroom and above the sink in kitchen. The bathroom outlet didn't trip it was still working. All fuses and the convertor box was good and nothing tripped. What's the fix for my issue for the non working outlets and why my fridge went from ac to gas. Campground site was 30amp. We were good one night the 2nd night that issue started any help would be great thanks

bobbecky · 02-22-2015, 10:24 PM

There really isn't enough information. Is your rig a 30 amp or a 50 amp for electric? If it is a 50 amp, and you have an adapter to convert to 30 amp, you probably have a bad dogbone adapter, the device that allows you to plug a 50 amp cord into a 30 amp receptacle at the pedestal. You need to provide more info.

Bob Landry · 02-23-2015, 07:49 AM

There is plenty of info to start troubleshooting. If any outlet or appliance on a leg works, the that leg is getting power from the pedestal. If it is 30A, then power from the pedestal and the power cord are good. If it is 50Amp, and we don't know that it is, anything working on the other leg verifies good power there and the pedestal and the dog bone, if he is using one, have both been eliminated. BTW, 50A breakers are ganged to gether so you can not have one side hot and not the other side.
There is nothing logical about how Keystone does their shore power and any outlets can be tied to any breaker.In my trailer, I found outlets wired from both the converter breaker and the one for the microwave.
The first step is to reset all of the breakers by turning them all to the off position and then to on. Then remove the front panel of the breaker box and measure each breaker output to neutral, not ground. There is a neutral bus bar in the electrical box. My guess is that there is either a tripped breaker or one has gone bad. This is all assuming that the OP has a basic knowledge of electricity and knows how to use a volt meter. If this is not he case, get a friend to help that knows how to do basic checks.

I had a breaker fail during a trip and it was the one that fed the DC converter and it also had several outlets that were powered by it. The reason for ganging connections wherever is that the electrical code limits the numer of connections that can be made on a 30S circuit, so the builders connect where ever they need to to get everything working.
I would recommend that when this problem is fixed, use a three light tester and go around checking outlets to see what circuit breakers work them. It will save time troubleshooting future problems.

GaryWT · 02-23-2015, 08:16 AM

This is just a guess but sounds like something happened in the campground that might have caused issue with your system. Interesting that the only 2 outlets that are working are your ground faults but nothing wired beyond them is working. Usually is they pop then they do not work either, shutting them off and resting them will probably not do anything but I would try that and then if the other outlets are still out, I would think about changing them out.

Another option is that the kitchen is fed from the bathroom ground fault and your second one is outside or elsewhere and it has popped.

Bob Landry · 02-23-2015, 08:29 AM

The GFCI in the bathroom, the outlet over the kitchen counter, and an outside outlet, if installed, are all fed from a dedicated AC breaker that is marked GFCI, or at least it is in my Outback. All of the other outlets are wired to various breakers and there is no diagram showing what is what. That's why it's important to know which breaker feeds which outlets. Also, there is no limit to the number of outlets that can be ganged to a GFCI because they will all be protected. I really think the OP has a tripped breaker or a defective one.

TNT88 · 02-28-2015, 03:09 PM

Hello
So after a few days of testing some thing in my TT
I still have no power at the non working outlets. Only power that I have is bathroom (gfci outlet) and the outlet above kitchen sink (non gfci outlet) the kitchen outlet is power by gfci from the bathroom. When were at camp site last week we were hook up to 30amp service. Covertor has good power and good voltage 13.74. When this issues happend the breakers didn't trip and no fuses were blown. So I did a few test in evolving a volt meter and converter check out good. I even went out out and bought house recepticals and replace the rv receptical temparaley with them and still no power. What's weird is I can put my cell phone on the non working outlets and the cell phone will come on but doesn't have enough power to put cell phone in charge mode. So the real Q is if the kitchen and bathroom have power and being feeded from the gfci outlet from the bathroom since there in a water area why doesn't fridge have power and my other 7 outlets as well

**JRTJH** · 02-28-2015, 04:45 PM

My guess would be a loose connection, probably in the neutral side of the power supply. You can download the wiring diagram for the WFCO converter assembly here: http://www.wfcoelectronics.com/UI/Po...?ptype=3&pid=9

Somewhere between your shore power cord and the circuit breakers you are losing power. It's not a "single circuit" problem since the outlets shouldn't be on the same circuit breaker. You didn't mention if your A/C and water heater were operational, but if they are, it's probably a white wire that's loose behind the circuit breaker panel. BE SURE TO UNPLUG THE TRAILER BEFORE REMOVING ANY BREAKERS OR TIGHTENING ANY WIRES !!!!!

Bob Landry · 02-28-2015, 04:48 PM

You didn't say what kind of "testing" you have done.Did you check the dead outlets with one og the three light outlet testers? That will tell you if you are even getting voltage to the outlets. Since the fridge outlet is not in the kitchen area, it probably will not be powered off of the GFCI. BTW, plugging your phone charger into a dead wall outlet will not keep the phone from working.
Did you check voltages from the output side of the circuit breakers to neutral buss bar at the converter? The neutral buss behind the front panel of the converter is where all of the neutral connections are made. With the power off, remove the front panel of the converter and see if any of the connections are loose. They are only setscrews, so a regular screwdriver will work.
We can't offer suggestions without knowing exactly what you have done.

TNT88 · 02-28-2015, 08:11 PM

The hot water heater works and the furnas works just fine and the air conditioner works fine to as well and !microwave. All the wires in the converter box are all tight and intacted. When I did the swap outlet test I cut the wire as it was a brand new install on the 120v side of the outlets. I did use a 3 light meter to test the outlets and they all read with 2 amber lights witch means correct wireing at that's what tester says.
As we sit here a talk about my post or my issue my TT is in the shop. I won't have a answer from then till tuesday. I have done all the testing that I could do of what knowledge I have with electrical. So please keep responding on this post the more knowledge I get from you guys the better we all get. I'll let all of you guys know what the verdict is on my TT on Tuesday. I thank all you for your response. BTW how do i post PICS

I pull TT with 2010 silverado with 6" lift sitting on33x20

Festus2 · 02-28-2015, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT88

BTW how do i post PICS

TNT88 -
Instructions on how to post pics can be found in the Forum Technical Support forum. Look for the hankpage's sticky at the top of the listings. Everything you need to know is there. If, after reading the tutorial, you still are having problems, please get back to us by posting your response in the Technical Support forum rather than here in the Repairs and Maintenance section. Thank you.

Bob Landry · 02-28-2015, 08:51 PM

I'm not sure why you swapped outlets. The probability that you have seven bad outlts is nil. The non-GFCI outlets are probably wired to the converter breaker, mine was. You still need to check for voltages on the output side of the converter outlet, and any others that do not feed something that is working.

TNT88 · 03-05-2015, 12:19 PM

well

the rv repair shop cant solve my 120v outlet issue, this is a small shop and they said that they can work on any TT, well i say NO.
they have to bring in a different guy to look at my TT.

so this is my issue again. i have 8 outlets 1 of those is GFCI (only 1 GFCI outlet in TT) and it's not tripped so the GFCI in the bathroom and the kitchen outlet and the outside outlet has 120v power the other outlets don't have the 120v power. so when i tested my converter it tested good 13.74v and the 120v side was good, the battery is good, microwave is good all the lights are good furnace is good. all the none working outlets check out as being wired right just no power to them. so the question is: is the GFCI protecting all 8 outlets? is the GFCI bad even it's not tripped? is there a brake some were from the fridge outlet to the TV outlet? i'm guessing that the microwave and furnace are on it's own circuit because they work. even though the breakers read 120v could they be not letting 120v power coming out? and they weren't tripped either.

we were on 30 amp service at the time

i did check behind all outlet to make sure no wires have came off or broke, so i cut the wire as it was new and started over like a new install and still no power. so with saying i'm missing something on 1 of the 120v legs or a broken wire on that same leg.

Bob Landry · 03-05-2015, 01:20 PM

I'm going to try this one more time. Your shore power is good as evidenced by the GFCI outlet and associated outlets are good. Forget about the GFCI. It will not be powering any of the nonworking outlets. The furnace uses 12VDC and propane. Forget about that. The microwave C/B is good because the MW works, but there may be outlets wired to the microwave circuit other than at the breaker panel. I had outlets wired to the microwave outlet inside the cabinet. I also had outlets wired to the converter circuit. There is no logic to Keystone's 115V wiring, they connected outlets wherever they could.
The probability of having 8 bad outlets, or the wiring at the back of the 8 outlets being incorrect or damaged is nil, so forget about that also.
You need to do two things. Check for 115V on EVERY circuit breaker outlet. Go to Home Depot and spend $7 on a three light outlet tester. and use it to check every outlet with the power on. it will tell you if a connection is missing. Whatever your problem is, it is going to be something that is common to the 8 outlets and nothing else. There may be a bad hot or neutral where they are all tied together and the circuit tester will tell you. If that is the case, then the RV shop's only job is to contact Keystone and find out how the trailer is wired so that they can trace it down. Obviously, someone s going to have to set the shop in the right direction because it appears they do not have a clue how to troubleshoot electrical problems.

TNT88 · 03-05-2015, 01:59 PM

hello

i did the test of each breaker and they all reading 120v, i did go out and bye a 3 light tester and all outlets and the tester said correct wiring with 2 amber lights lit up from left to right 1 light is red and the other 2 are amber and they all said amber witch means CORRECT.

TNT88 · 03-05-2015, 02:19 PM

hello

i did do one test with the outside outlet before i took TT in the shop. i took the power source from the outlet and put it to the outlet for the fridge and i did get 3 other outlets to have power. so with saying the outlet for the fridge is not getting 120v fed to it, maybe it should be coming from M/V? maybe the neutral wire for that line has came off. i did't check the outlet for M/V could that be possible?

Bob Landry · 03-05-2015, 02:50 PM

That is odd because with no voltage going to the outlet, no lights on the tester would come on at all.

TNT88 · 03-05-2015, 05:01 PM

i think you might missed understood what i was saying.

when i used the 3 light tester i was hook up to shore power all outlets said CORRECT wiring.

when i did the last test i took the outside outlets power off that outlet, then i took that wire and used for the fridge outlet when i did this i did get 3 outlets to get gain there power back. - what was connected originally from the outside out let. So with saying there is a problem i believe some where in this area of the fridge outlet and wires. could the M/V be supplying power to the fridge outlet? and maybe the power wire that feeds the fridge has come loose if supplied from M/V?

i did notice in my converter box that there is 4 120v wiring coming inn 2 of the wires are coated in Yellow like standard wire from home depot (hot/ neutral /ground) then the other 2 are coated in white with (hot/neutral/ground). but since i've been playing in TT looking at all the wires and outlets i didn't see any of the YELLOW wiring at all.

well i just got a call from the shop they had different guy compared to the other guy that it will take 6hrs to find the problem. this guy came in took him 5 minutes to tell me that there is a loose connection or a break some where in the wiring, should i believe this or not?

PARAPTOR · 03-05-2015, 05:11 PM

I know Bob is working with you but I am having a problem understanding what you are saying. By the way what to you mean by M/V? I will try and read what you wrote again

PARAPTOR · 03-06-2015, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT88

i think you might missed understood what i was saying.

when i used the 3 light tester i was hook up to shore power all outlets said CORRECT wiring. do not understand this statement at all, if not connected to shore power would have no 120VAC ?? Will ignore this for now

when i did the last test i took the outside outlets power off that outlet, then i took that wire and used for the fridge outletOKAY here goes sounds like some how you jumpered power from that outside outlet which always had power into the frig outlet possibly through plug prongs??? and now the Frig plug has power and the other three outlets. basically all working now when i did this i did get 3 outlets to get gain there power back. - what was connected originally from the outside out let. So with saying there is a problem i believe some where in this area of the fridge outletSo what you just proved is the Frig plug had no power coming into it and the other three plugs are down stream from it. ie get their power from the frig plug. Could be loose/disconnected power feed to that frig plug. Since everything is now working could be the feed directly from the breaker and wires. could the M/VHave no idea what you are calling a M/V ??? be supplying power to the fridge outlet? and maybe the power wire that feeds the fridge has come loosecorrect if supplied from M/V????????????

i did notice in my converter box that there is 4 120v wiring Based on that you have 4 breakers, possibly one for AC, Microwave, converter, and xxxxxcoming inn 2 of the wires are coated in Yellow like standard wire from home depot (hot/ neutral /ground) then the other 2 are coated in white with (hot/neutral/ground). but since i've been playing in TT looking at all the wires and outlets i didn't see any of the YELLOW wiring at all.assuming the yellow cables do not go to the AC, converter, or microwave you have not opened up an outlet feed directly from the breaker

well i just got a call from the shop they had different guy compared to the other guy that it will take 6hrs to find the problem. this guy came in took him 5 minutes reasonable time for that diagnose to tell me that there is a loose connection or a break some whereThink this is what Bob has been trying to say and think you just proved with you own test in the wiring, should i believe this or not?

So based on my understanding of your explanation of your test you need to figure out why no power going to the frig plug, take it apart If you have not already. The gray area for me is the M/V referenced item, have no idea what you are referring to??

Let me see if I understand what you are saying My comments in read. Hope this helps until Bob gets back to you, He may have while I have been trying to type

going to send this and possible make corrections. Let me know if I am even close to what you were trying to say. Just my 2 cents

Good Luck

Bob Landry · 03-07-2015, 05:50 AM

I'm pretty much confused at this point. The tester can not indicate incorrect wiring if there is no power to it because not of the LEDS would light. The tester has to have power.

The yellow wires are #14, rated for 15A and would provide power to low loads and appliances such as wall outlets, fridge, GFCI. The white wires are #12 and are going to go from the two 20A breakers to the air conditioner and the microwave. On my trailer, I had outlets that had been wired to the microwave circuit, hence the use of #12 wire. There's no guarantee that KS does them all the same way.

It's beginning to sound like a lost neutral and is probably caused by a neutral wire that has pulled out of an outlet. That's how all of these outlets are ganged together and the outlets are not great quality to begin with. I found KS had done a lot of weird stuff when I was adding my second 30A service to my trailer.

Once again, correct use and interpretation of the outlet tester is going to answer a lot of questions, but I'm a little fuzzy on what the OP has told us so far.

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