368mbi

[Monty0814]

Hello!

Getting close to purchasing my first RV. The Cougar 368 MBI is a finalist. Ideally, wish it had a flip down bunk in the 2nd bedroom like the Soltitude 377 MBS or Artic Wolf 3600 Suite. I wanted to select the RV first so I can upgrade to the right truck. I know the Soltitude is heavier and would require DRW but I really do not want that as my daily drive if I can avoid.

I am looking at a Ram 3500 Limited. The SRW has a payload of about 3700 lbs. whereas the DRW has payload of about 5100 lbs. The hitch weight on the Cougar is 1980 (Soltitude is close to 2800) but also know it would be more than that but my head spins from all the info out there and I know the dealerships are just salesman's.

Can I pull the Cougar safely without worry with the SRW? I do not want to take any chances with my wife, kids and others on the road by pulling something the truck should not nor do I want it so close I have to worry about did we pack too much.

Appreciate any thoughts.
Thanks!

[sourdough]

The numbers can get kind of "spinning" around so just start at basics.

Here is the link to the 368 MBI,

https://www.keystonerv.com/fifth-whe...i-fifth-wheel/

GVW is say 14k. At a 20% pin weight is 2800. With that number start to look at a truck. Add hitch - 200-300 if going with traditional 5th wheel hitches. Weight of wife and kids; how many kids? Current weight....they will grow. Give your best guess at that. Gear: with a family you will be carrying "gear" ie; toys, things the occupy folks while traveling - it all comes off the payload. Travel snacks, ice chest ditto. You shouldn't travel without tools, jacks etc. I carry my jacks, small tool chest, folding table, dehumidifier (if going), wood blocks etc. in the bed. That goes against that payload. It adds up quick and isn't really noticeable....until you notice.

Exactly what Limited are you looking at? Trim, drivetrain etc. With the numbers above; 2800 pin, let's figure 600 family (M/D + 3kids), 300 for the rest. That is 3700, the payload of what you are looking at. To me that doesn't give you any cushion; maybe OK for a guy running across country when "what's that" comes to "oh crap" happens, but with family and kids you want to minimize the possibility of that, and if it does happen, the ability to mitigate the consequences if possible. A safety cushion does that.

If you are open to both truck and trailer as it seems you may be, it seems the DRW is the issue as a "daily driver". I figure it comes down to why the DRW is not acceptable as a daily driver. If it's ride, you'll be fine. If it's drivability/maneuverability I figure you will be fine as well (have to get used to it). If it's because you're like me; it won't fit the garage and I won't leave my vehicles outside...and I'm not rebuilding the house...then you are stuck with a SRW.

To try to get more payload can you find a trim level lower than the Limited? That is one heck of an outfitted truck. I looked at them before buying mine (signature)...too much bling and money for it. The Laramie I have still has too many things I don't want but it had the drivetrain I wanted....and the only one around that had it.

Provide a few more details - you are close but looks to me like what you posted cuts it too close for comfort for a family IMO.

[Monty0814]

Sourdough, thank you for responding!

So, as a starting point for the pin weight, using 20% of GVW is the right starting point and not the hitch weight of 1,980 in the specs? I am 6’2 and 240 myself so with me, wife, 2 kids and typically my mother would be with is so that is 800 lbs. right there. Add in the 200-300 for the hitch I agree. What I was thinking is a lot of the things we would be packing would be in the RV versus the bed of the truck. Sounds like bad assumption on my part.

My reasoning for not preferring the DRW is I live just outside Philadelphia so the few times I have to go to city would not be fun. I am an office guy and do travel for work (pre COVID) 15 times a year so airport parking becomes a challenge. I have a 1500 GMC Denali today so am used to parking in the back when I go to stores. I never drove a DRW so am imagining the ride is rougher (60 minute daily commute each way) and lastly the size of it seems a little obnoxious since I am as I mention above an office guy. my wife has a sedan so I have another car that would help some of the time asuming she is comfortable driving the truck.

I am open to looking at other trims but I do love the bells and whistles in my vehicles (have driven GMC Yukon and Sierra Denali’s for last decade). The limited crew or mega, 4x4, 6.7 turbo is what I was looking at that is around 3700 or 5100 (drw). The mega cab has the shorter bed which I would prefer and my understanding is that would work but would need a sliding hitch.

Safety is #1 and if it is too close which it seems to be, it is either a DRW or smalller RV. The mid bunkouse loft with bunkbeds is our preferred floorplan (promised my son a bunkbed).

Thanks again for your time!

[wiredgeorge]

Monty, You may not need a dually if you can stick with 2wd and a more base model. The payloads on a Ford like mine are highest with the XL model. 2WD and the fancy models add quite a bit of weight which is subtracted from a potential payload. The gas versions have higher payload as diesels are heavy but the diesel gives you more torque for better pulling and with a 14K lb camper this is a consideration.

[Monty0814]

Thanks Wiredgeorge.

What is your payload on the XL 2wd? I do lean to wanting 4x4 being in the northeast as we do get snow. Agree gas gives more payload but diesel will pull it better.

I am going to start looking at lesser trims but with the info Sourdough provided on the pin weight, passenger and miscellaneous, figure I need 4300-4500 payload to feel safe with no questions.

Thanks!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Monty0814

Thanks Wiredgeorge.

What is your payload on the XL 2wd? I do lean to wanting 4x4 being in the northeast as we do get snow. Agree gas gives more payload but diesel will pull it better.

I am going to start looking at lesser trims but with the info Sourdough provided on the pin weight, passenger and miscellaneous, figure I need 4300-4500 payload to feel safe with no questions.

Thanks!

Monty, hold that thought. It's past my bedtime and I have a trip tomorrow....to get a bushel of "roasted, Hatch green chilis"!! Which I do every year and am late now...but they've promised.

The Cougar 368mbi, which dw really wanted (and I didn't) had a lot of scrutiny from me along with what it took to "carry" it (not tow) it. I'll try to chime in tomorrow after I get back and see where we are. We have lots of good folks with towing knowledge and experience.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Monty0814

Sourdough, thank you for responding!

So, as a starting point for the pin weight, using 20% of GVW is the right starting point and not the hitch weight of 1,980 in the specs? I am 6’2 and 240 myself so with me, wife, 2 kids and typically my mother would be with is so that is 800 lbs. right there. Add in the 200-300 for the hitch I agree. What I was thinking is a lot of the things we would be packing would be in the RV versus the bed of the truck. Sounds like bad assumption on my part.

My reasoning for not preferring the DRW is I live just outside Philadelphia so the few times I have to go to city would not be fun. I am an office guy and do travel for work (pre COVID) 15 times a year so airport parking becomes a challenge. I have a 1500 GMC Denali today so am used to parking in the back when I go to stores. I never drove a DRW so am imagining the ride is rougher (60 minute daily commute each way) and lastly the size of it seems a little obnoxious since I am as I mention above an office guy. my wife has a sedan so I have another car that would help some of the time asuming she is comfortable driving the truck.

I am open to looking at other trims but I do love the bells and whistles in my vehicles (have driven GMC Yukon and Sierra Denali’s for last decade). The limited crew or mega, 4x4, 6.7 turbo is what I was looking at that is around 3700 or 5100 (drw). The mega cab has the shorter bed which I would prefer and my understanding is that would work but would need a sliding hitch.

Safety is #1 and if it is too close which it seems to be, it is either a DRW or smalller RV. The mid bunkouse loft with bunkbeds is our preferred floorplan (promised my son a bunkbed).

Thanks again for your time!

You have pretty much answered your own question, why buy a new TV that just meets your needs today? Kids will grow you will add stuff and now you are overloaded.
DW and I Full time and our 2016 Ram Laramie 3500 CC DRW is our only vehicle. There may be a drive through I won’t go through, but I have used parking garages. The biggest think is to back in to parking places.

[Monty0814]

Hi Sourdough.... hope your trip was successful. Two questions for you if you don’t mind:

1 - you mention the 368mbi had a lot of scrutiny from you, can you elaborate? What did you end up with?

2 - i was looking online at the half-ton Cougar 29MBS which has total weight of 11,000. If I use the 20% of GVW, that is 2,200 so not much less than the 368MBI. I thought the half to was intended to be carried by a half ton truck but the numbers don’t seem to add up. Based on everything above, that would be pushing the limits of the 3500 SRW Ram Limited I mentioned in initial post. What am I not getting?

ThAnks!

[sourdough]

Sorry for not getting back sooner (spent last evening sorting and vacuum packing those chilis).

Yes, the 368 got a lot of scrutiny from me. DW wanted it, I did not. She liked the middle room because it would give her a place to put, and work on, her crafts. She wanted my laptop off the dinette table and "out of sight". I told her for 2 people the middle room was a total waste of useable space, something that is a premium in an RV. At that time I also told her it was too heavy. In the end we ended up with the trailer in my signature - and a new truck.

The numbers "game" can be confusing. There are lots of components in trying to make the calculations and when changing one it affects others - sort of like a Rubik's cube. As you are finding it's all about weights which then equals safety and the ability to control the rig properly.

First, put the "1/2 ton towable" idea away when dealing with a 5th wheel. There might be a couple that could be comfortably towed with a properly equipped 1/2 ton but by and large it's just a sales phrase because virtually all 1/2 tons (except the tiny few mentioned above) are outclassed by a 5vr. That doesn't mean some don't do it, but it doesn't mean they are within acceptable weight limits either.

The trucks - they are a balancing act all unto themselves. You need to know what trailer you want, gvw and estimated pin weight (20%) to help you find a truck with adequate payload (sticker inside the driver door). Payload is affected by many things, particularly body style and drivetrain/engine. Gas vs diesel is always a big topic. Diesel gives you more towing ability but at the same time reduces your carrying (payload) ability due the weight it brings. Gas engines give you more payload and allow for a larger trailer, BUT, they aren't as stout as a diesel and at the upper end the gas engine will be rated for more trailer than the engine can comfortably pull. A tradeoff one has to work through. I'll use me for an example;

Unlike many/most I don't want a diesel so I stick with a gas engine. I hit the same dilemma I described above. That in turn eliminates many of the trailers I would like to have but I made that choice. I watch the payload and the weight numbers. I then factor in, from experience, what that gas engine can tow decently and draw the line there - it won't be what the advertised numbers are for sure.

Trim levels and foo fahs - these affect your payload, sometimes dramatically. When I bought this truck I wanted a Big Horn with the same drivetrain, payload typically around 4200 +/-. Not a one to be found so had to go with a Laramie and lost about 200lbs. payload. The limited just keeps dropping the payload. As you mentioned you like the "stuff" in those models. The Laramie has more in it than I use or need but that is all a personal preference and comes with a weight penalty.

So in the end, you aren't missing anything, just dipping your toe into the sometimes very irritating world of towing weights. Every combo has to be analyzed using generalizations as we are discussing without actual scaled numbers....which are literally impossible for a rig you don't own.

Hopefully I've shed some light as you work through all this. Post back with questions or concerns and we will help any way we can.

[Monty0814]

Thank you! All your information has been helpful and I think I get it now!!

[rbrdriver]

I'm just thankful at least you are approaching this with caution. I am amazed at how many are pulling fifth wheels like you are talking about with 3/4 ton pickups!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Monty0814

Thanks Wiredgeorge.

What is your payload on the XL 2wd? I do lean to wanting 4x4 being in the northeast as we do get snow. Agree gas gives more payload but diesel will pull it better.

I am going to start looking at lesser trims but with the info Sourdough provided on the pin weight, passenger and miscellaneous, figure I need 4300-4500 payload to feel safe with no questions.

Thanks!

My payload is for a 4WD crew cab long bed with 6.0L and automatic and just a shade under 4K. I think 3995 lbs combined cargo/passengers. Have never needed to use my 4wd.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Monty0814

Sourdough, thank you for responding!

So, as a starting point for the pin weight, using 20% of GVW is the right starting point and not the hitch weight of 1,980 in the specs? I am 6’2 and 240 myself so with me, wife, 2 kids and typically my mother would be with is so that is 800 lbs. right there. Add in the 200-300 for the hitch I agree. What I was thinking is a lot of the things we would be packing would be in the RV versus the bed of the truck. Sounds like bad assumption on my part.

My reasoning for not preferring the DRW is I live just outside Philadelphia so the few times I have to go to city would not be fun. I am an office guy and do travel for work (pre COVID) 15 times a year so airport parking becomes a challenge. I have a 1500 GMC Denali today so am used to parking in the back when I go to stores. I never drove a DRW so am imagining the ride is rougher (60 minute daily commute each way) and lastly the size of it seems a little obnoxious since I am as I mention above an office guy. my wife has a sedan so I have another car that would help some of the time asuming she is comfortable driving the truck.

I am open to looking at other trims but I do love the bells and whistles in my vehicles (have driven GMC Yukon and Sierra Denali’s for last decade). The limited crew or mega, 4x4, 6.7 turbo is what I was looking at that is around 3700 or 5100 (drw). The mega cab has the shorter bed which I would prefer and my understanding is that would work but would need a sliding hitch.

Safety is #1 and if it is too close which it seems to be, it is either a DRW or smalller RV. The mid bunkouse loft with bunkbeds is our preferred floorplan (promised my son a bunkbed).

Thanks again for your time!

Well just in defense of DRW, we were towing overloaded with our old 2001 Ram 2500 by a bunch. So I started looking to replace it with a 3500. I felt that even though I would be stepping up about 15 years in model year of TV that a SRW 3500 would be a lateral move. We bough a used 3500 DRW, and if I had gotten a SRW we would likely be within about 200#+/- of our payload with a 2,800# pin. Our DRW has a 5,411# sticker payload, ready to pull we scale right at 10,000#, so have 4,000# left of the 14,000# GVWR.

I have put this DRW in parking garages, and driven in city traffic. If it is your daily driver you will get use to the wide hips.

[JRTJH]

When you consider that the mirrors on a SRW truck are as wide as the hips on a DRW truck, it lessens the impact somewhat... Also, EVERY city bus is as wide/wider than most DRW trucks, and they navigate city streets every day.....

[Firewall]

I have 368MBI and tow it with a SRW Ram 3500. My sticker payload is 4200lbs and yes I have put things like running boards, tools and of course the hitch on the truck. My only complaint would be the noise from the gas engine, generally plenty of power but my next truck will be a diesel, maybe even a DRW.

I have never felt unsafe, the truck and trailer combo handle very well and more importantly stop when I need them to!

[Larrystegall]

If you are looking at diesel 2500 SRW pickups, your only hope would be the cheapest single cab long bed you could find. I have the 2017 359 MBI, and it is all my2016 chevy 2500HD gasser wants. If it were diesel I would be seriously overloaded. (I travel light as well, and visit the scales often to be sure).



Oops! Misread the post, 3500 series would be a better choice.