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Old 02-10-2016, 07:50 PM   #1
Keywestparrothead
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Decisions, decisions... Next unit?

Hi All, after doing several months of researching options for taking my motorcycle with us and our Montana, I have decided there isn't a viable option. To that end I have narrowed down my choices to the 2016 Alpine 3900RE with the mini garage and the 2016 DRV Fullhouse LX450 toy hauler. Has anyone had experience with either of these two units/brands and can they provide input, both positive and negative, to help in my decision process?

To be clear, I have been mostly happy with the Montana and understand the Alpine to be of equal build quality. I'm not eager to spend the extra money that the DRV commands , but I haven't found a floor plan that we like, nor the quality level, in the usual fifth wheel toy haulers. I'm not knocking the Keystone Toy Haulers, but I don't see 10-15yr build longevity in the current offerings.
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Old 02-11-2016, 03:55 AM   #2
bsmith0404
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We love our Alpine, never had a regret about buying it. If you liked the quality of your Montana you will love the Alpine. Personally, I have never been a big fan of traditional toy haulers. Something about living/sleeping in a garage that doesn't appeal to me, but they have their place and some people need their functionality. The 3900RE gives you a separate dedicated garage space that will work perfectly for your Harley, but doesn't take much away from your living space. Plus it gives you a garage to park in during bad weather without having to make changes to your living space like traditional toy haulers where the garage doubles as a bedroom or dining room. If it were me, that's the route I would go.
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Old 02-11-2016, 05:51 AM   #3
Keywestparrothead
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Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
We love our Alpine, never had a regret about buying it. If you liked the quality of your Montana you will love the Alpine. Personally, I have never been a big fan of traditional toy haulers. Something about living/sleeping in a garage that doesn't appeal to me, but they have their place and some people need their functionality. The 3900RE gives you a separate dedicated garage space that will work perfectly for your Harley, but doesn't take much away from your living space. Plus it gives you a garage to park in during bad weather without having to make changes to your living space like traditional toy haulers where the garage doubles as a bedroom or dining room. If it were me, that's the route I would go.
Thanks Brent! With it just being the Mrs and I we wouldn't use the rear area for anything other than transport, and maybe the occasional hang out spot due to rain, etc. Both units have a dining area in the living part, which was a forced requirement from the wife :-). That in of itself rules out 99% of standard toy haulers...

Does your Alpine have the same totally enclosed bottom as the Montana? Only the iron pipes for the gas lines and the grey/black pipes are below the coraplast on mine. Which has caused twice to have to repair the gas connector (in the middle of the unit no less) where the iorn pipe meets copper tubing to the stove but I digress...

Thanks again for your input!
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Old 02-11-2016, 06:22 AM   #4
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Have you looked at the momentum by Grand design?
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:57 AM   #5
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DRV vs a Keystone/Thor product? Really...LOL

2 different market levels
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:33 AM   #6
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Before we get into the "name calling", there is a market for every RV without resorting to "unverified accusations" that one or the other will "fall apart". I haven't seen any "unbiased studies" that would indicate there is any validity to those kinds of accusations, so, FWIW............

Now, that said, let's try to get back to "facts" not "superstition".

From what I can see on the Keystone website, the 3900RE is essentially the same floorplan as the 3110RE, with the addition of the 60" garage on the 3900.

That said, there are some calculations based on the weight, length and number of axles under the trailer that would give an indication of the weight carried by each tire.

The 3110RE GVW is 15000 pounds with 2445 (empty) pin weight. The trailer has 2 axles, so at GVW, there is 3139 pounds on each tire.

The 3900RE GVW is 15500 with 2955 (empty) pin weight. The trailer has 3 axles, so at GVW, there is 2090 pounds on each tire.

Granted, there is some "artificiality" in these calculations. We know the pin weight will increase as the trailer is loaded, but by using the empty pin weight, we can calculate the "potential" for tire loading. Both trailers are shipped with the same tires, ST235/80R16 LRE. I would guess that they are probably Trailer King or PowerMax tires, but that may not be true.

At any rate, given the "reputation" of ST tires to have problems when loaded near their max, it seems that Keystone has significantly reduced the potential for overloading the tires on the 3900RE by adding the third axle.

If you do decide to choose the Alpine, it appears that the "factory standard ST tires" may not be as "close to maximum load" as they are on what is "essentially the same trailer" (3100) and you get the addition of a 5' garage on the 3900.

I know this isn't a "deciding factor" in what you choose, but wanted to point out that tire loading seems to be much more conservative with the 3900RE, giving you less worry, even at GVW. That may equate to using the ST tires for a couple of years vs the need to exchange tires immediately, to gain the "peace of mind" afforded by upgrading to LRF or LRG tires immediately after purchase.

Whatever you choose, enjoy the newfound option of having the extra room !!!
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:55 PM   #7
Keywestparrothead
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Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
Have you looked at the momentum by Grand design?
Hi Chuck, we did and there wasn't a floor plan we liked. I believe the ceiling height in the bed/bath was too short (I'm 6'7" )

Great suggestion though
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:58 PM   #8
Keywestparrothead
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Originally Posted by sw342 View Post
DRV vs a Keystone/Thor product? Really...LOL

2 different market levels
I'm aware and should have clarified in my first post that I am looking at the Alpine to take me up to retirement (about 6-7 years) or just bite the bullet and do the DRV now in preparation for full timing and many, many mile across the country in retirement.
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Before we get into the "name calling", there is a market for every RV without resorting to "unverified accusations" that one or the other will "fall apart". I haven't seen any "unbiased studies" that would indicate there is any validity to those kinds of accusations, so, FWIW............

Now, that said, let's try to get back to "facts" not "superstition".

From what I can see on the Keystone website, the 3900RE is essentially the same floorplan as the 3110RE, with the addition of the 60" garage on the 3900.

That said, there are some calculations based on the weight, length and number of axles under the trailer that would give an indication of the weight carried by each tire.

The 3110RE GVW is 15000 pounds with 2445 (empty) pin weight. The trailer has 2 axles, so at GVW, there is 3139 pounds on each tire.

The 3900RE GVW is 15500 with 2955 (empty) pin weight. The trailer has 3 axles, so at GVW, there is 2090 pounds on each tire.

Granted, there is some "artificiality" in these calculations. We know the pin weight will increase as the trailer is loaded, but by using the empty pin weight, we can calculate the "potential" for tire loading. Both trailers are shipped with the same tires, ST235/80R16 LRE. I would guess that they are probably Trailer King or PowerMax tires, but that may not be true.

At any rate, given the "reputation" of ST tires to have problems when loaded near their max, it seems that Keystone has significantly reduced the potential for overloading the tires on the 3900RE by adding the third axle.

If you do decide to choose the Alpine, it appears that the "factory standard ST tires" may not be as "close to maximum load" as they are on what is "essentially the same trailer" (3100) and you get the addition of a 5' garage on the 3900.

I know this isn't a "deciding factor" in what you choose, but wanted to point out that tire loading seems to be much more conservative with the 3900RE, giving you less worry, even at GVW. That may equate to using the ST tires for a couple of years vs the need to exchange tires immediately, to gain the "peace of mind" afforded by upgrading to LRF or LRG tires immediately after purchase.

Whatever you choose, enjoy the newfound option of having the extra room !!!
As always, thanks John for your input. I wasn't trying to start a brand war, just looking to see if any one had good/bad/ugly experiences with the 2 units mentioned.

I do believe the 3900RE is only a 2 axel (rated at 7,000#) BUT they are shipping with and I have seen on a LDL "G" series tires

All other weights I should be good with, on both units, as the TV is a beast
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Old 02-11-2016, 02:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Keywestparrothead View Post
As always, thanks John for your input. I wasn't trying to start a brand war, just looking to see if any one had good/bad/ugly experiences with the 2 units mentioned.

I do believe the 3900RE is only a 2 axel (rated at 7,000#) BUT they are shipping with and I have seen on a LDL "G" series tires

All other weights I should be good with, on both units, as the TV is a beast
First of all, OOPS !!! For some reason, I got it in my head that the 3900RE is a triple axle trailer. You are correct, it's a tandem, so all my "number crunching" was for naught.... <blush> The Keystone website doesn't reflect the upgraded tires, so if you've seen LR G tires on models there, that's good news.

You're correct, with your F450, you've pretty much covered the entire spectrum of fifth wheels. I can't think of any "standard build" offerings from any company that would overload it, although there are a couple of "specialty build/custom build" manufacturers that would be happy to build almost anything your pocket could afford, but those aren't really RV's, rather "luxury homes" for carnival owners... LOL...

I didn't think you were starting a "brand war". It's perfectly appropriate for you to ask for comments about the suitability of different brands to fit your identified purpose. It's the responses to your request that I don't want to "get out of hand" with opinions that aren't capable of being verified or that are simply false. We all know that Keystone RV's don't actually fall apart with regularity, else those who propose the concept would have likely bought another brand.....
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Old 02-12-2016, 05:43 AM   #11
bsmith0404
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Its been a while since I've looked at a Montana, but yes, fully enclosed bottom.
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Old 02-15-2016, 06:47 PM   #12
Keywestparrothead
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Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
Have you looked at the momentum by Grand design?
Chuckster, I owe you an apology. I went back and looked again and found that the 376TH might just fit the bill. We are going Saturday to take a closer look. Thanks again for the suggestion!
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Old 02-16-2016, 05:26 AM   #13
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Momentum 376TH

Good luck on the Momentum, you will fall in love with it. We ordered one from Palm Beach RV, going from a 2010 Fuzion Touring Edition II 405 to the 376TH. Awaiting delivery in March.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:38 AM   #14
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Good luck on the Momentum, you will fall in love with it. We ordered one from Palm Beach RV, going from a 2010 Fuzion Touring Edition II 405 to the 376TH. Awaiting delivery in March.
We went from a 2011 Fuzion 322 Touring Edition to a 2015 Momentum 385TH. We love our 385TH though we were also very happy with our Fuzion and never had one issue. But, the newer amenities such as the auto leveling are very nice and we like having more space everywhere. Basement storage is huge with the drop frame but of course we just carry more stuff now.

I occasionally see the couple that bought or Fuzion and they have been very happy with it also. It was a great unit for sure and I believe most 5th wheels in this price range are basically the same. You can buy one and never have an issue then someone can buy one identical and have problems.
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