What about this combo?

[STLCG]

That sure went downhill in a hurry.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by STLCG

Real world experience trumps internet banter any time. Look, the point I am trying to make is that there is a lot of good and bad information floating around. Do your research, crunch the numbers and make the best decision based on factual published information not internet squawk.

And the point that I am trying to make is that, along with numerous other criteria, trailer (not 5th wheel) length in relation to TV length should be taken into consideration. How much emphasis you want to put on that factor is up to you. You are free to ignore it or consider it. You think it is irrelevant. I disagree.

Doing thorough research, crunching numbers and basing your decision on factual information are crucial. No argument from me there.

However, I hardly think it is fair of you to describe members' opinions about towing and tow vehicles as "internet banter" and "internet squawk". After all, aren't you expressing your opinion? Just because our opinions differ, that doesn't mean that either one of them is "banter or squawk".

Let's call it a day and that we agree to disagree.

[STLCG]

I drive a Ford and have for many years so I cannot speak to Chevy, Dodge or Toyota. No were does Ford list a length limit for trailer towing. Not in an owner’s manual or in its towing guide. Nor does Keystone publish any kind of guide regarding length. I tow a Keystone with a Ford so those are my controlling interest. Furthermore in the current issue of Trailer Life they feature Tundra towing a 36’.11” TT, pretty sure that does not fall within the stated formula.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by STLCG

Real world experience trumps internet banter any time. There are plenty of examples on this forum of people happily towing rigs that do not fall within the above stated criteria. I am now one of them. I was almost scared off from buying my current TT because of the info floating around on this site but in the end commonsense won out. That “formula” is rather restrictive and I am sure there are plenty of ¾ tons pulling incredibly long 5vrs that are not even close to meeting that standard. Look, the point I am trying to make is that there is a lot of good and bad information floating around. Do your research, crunch the numbers and make the best decision based on factual published information not internet squawk.

Well... My real world experience is directly opposite of yours... so my experience cancels yours out..

June 1, 2012 purchased a bumper pull 2890RL Passport and tried to pull it with a 2012 F150 145" wheelbase pickup, the combo waggled its butt like a belly dancer and nothing seemed to help. It wasn't sway... the rear of the truck waggled not the trailer. After changing tires, shocks, and hitches the truck still waggled at highway speeds..

Sold the truck at the DW's insistence and bought bigger one... Surprise, surprise stock tires, stock shocks, plain old W/D hitch with a friction sway bar... trailer pulls like a dream and even a passing semi has no effect.

I've worked in the industry when I was much younger and had a gut feeling that the salesman and Ford were lying to me when they said that little light weight, short coupled pickup would pull that trailer and my gut was proven right...

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by STLCG

Real world experience trumps internet banter any time. There are plenty of examples on this forum of people happily towing rigs that do not fall within the above stated criteria. I am now one of them. I was almost scared off from buying my current TT because of the info floating around on this site but in the end commonsense won out. That “formula” is rather restrictive and I am sure there are plenty of ¾ tons pulling incredibly long 5vrs that are not even close to meeting that standard. Look, the point I am trying to make is that there is a lot of good and bad information floating around. Do your research, crunch the numbers and make the best decision based on factual published information not internet squawk.

The "formula" is intended (per the statements that accompany it) for use with travel trailers. If you had read the source document, you'd have noted that there is a disclaimer which is a part of the table explanation and states that it does not apply to fifth wheels and gives the rationale why they are different.

Also, if you had read the article in reference #4, http://caravanchronicles.com/underst...f-towing-pt-2/ you would have seen that the fulcrum created by a travel trailer/hitch is located behind the rear axle of the tow vehicle and the fulcrum in a fifth wheel hitch is created at or within inches of the rear axle. This creates a significant difference in trailer induced sway in the tow vehicle. This sway is dependent upon wheelbase length for dampening when towing a travel trailer but not when towing a fifth wheel.

The point I see you making is that there is good and bad information floating around the internet. We try very hard to keep the information on this forum factual and appropriately "verified" through conventional reference sources, valid internet sources and also through personal experience. I do agree completely with your last statement, "Do your research ... based on factual published information not internet squawk" Your personal experience is one accounting of a successful outcome. It is not verified, published information and as such, falls more into the category of "internet squawk" than in the category of referenced, verified towing data.

For every accounting on this or any other website of successful towing with overloaded or under-rated vehicles there are as many or more accounts of unhappy buyers who were "duped" by the salesman and had to buy a larger tow vehicle, who were unable to satisfactorily tow with the setup they bought and even worse, who had accidents from being overloaded and unable to control their rig when encountering high winds, unanticipated conditions where they couldn't avoid an accident and those who unfortunately destroyed or damaged their rig.

Some people come here looking for us to tell them (either collectively or individually) that they'll be OK with an overloaded or under-rated tow vehicle. It is not the intent of anyone on this forum to force anyone to buy a tow vehicle bigger than they require, but it is also not our intent to carelessly tell a novice seeking advice that they should unequivocally trust their salesman because he's as honest as the day is long.

The facts remain as stated: Payload, GVW, GCWR, vehicle wheelbase, trailer length and intended use all must be considered to arrive at a suitable outcome when matching a tow vehicle and a travel trailer.

And yes, it did go downhill rapidly. Let's get it on the right track by using verified source documents and valid physics based calculations to offer advice, not "I was lucky, you probably will be too"...... That is the "internet squawk" we try to avoid as much as possible.

[STLCG]

I have learned a lot from this forum and greatly appreciate the information that is dispensed. I just get really aggravated when someone asked “can I tow this with a half-ton?” and the instant and predictable response is “No!! Don’t do it you will die!!” Especially when posters start throwing out fire wood and full fresh H2O tanks as definitive reasons why you will be overloaded. Modern day ½ tons are incredible machines that can do so much more than there predecessors. I had a 2003 F-150 super crew and yes if I tried to tow a 31SQB with it we all would have died! The 2010 however handles it like a dream.
My experience are just that mine and unverifiable, same as the guys who say “been there done that, you must upgrade to a ¾ ton.” I am not trying to go after anyone individual just expressing a different point of view based on my personal journey through life and will continue to do so. It is a free country after all.

[JRTJH]

STLGC,

I am probably one of the biggest proponents on this forum in favor of half ton towing. If you go back through the older threads, you'll see that I owned a 2010 F150 FX4 and towed a Springdale 242 fifth wheel. I carefully calculated the anticipated pin weight of that fifth wheel, the payload of the truck with all the options (that's why I didn't get a Lariat, it was too heavy) and special ordered the truck based on my calculations for the weight of the trailer. Through the 3+ years that I owned that rig, we travelled to Kansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Ohio and back here putting on about 5,000 miles in two long trips and several thousand more miles in short "in-state" trips. Through all of that towing I came to realize that what I anticipated before purchase (remember, I've been doing this for 40 years) was "still valid" but didn't cover all the possibilities. Some of them included camping 30 miles down a dirt road with no available water or firewood, no place to dump the holding tanks when we left and needing a generator (extra weight) and fuel for it in order to stay at the campground without having to make extra trips to town for supplies that we couldn't pack in on the first trip. That's a 60+ mile extra journey. I was "reduced" to not being able to carry 2x8 leveling blocks, had to buy plastic because it was lighter. I couldn't throw my tool box in the back, I had to get a canvas tool bag and carefully select what I needed. I couldn't take along my hydraulic jack for the trailer, I needed the weight for other things. So, I've lived the half ton tow vehicle life. It's not bad and I'd do it again before I give up camping with an RV.

HOWEVER: When we decided to trade in our damaged trailer on a larger, more livable model, along with that came the realization that we would be pushing the payload to the very maximum with the RV alone. That would mean even less leeway than I had with the previous lighter fifth wheel. Could we have towed it? ABSOLUTELY, the 5.4 in a half ton with the max tow package of 11,200 lbs would easily drag the new trailer most anywhere I cared to point the front bumper. With air bags and heavier tires, I wouldn't have been "that far" over my rear end weight limit. But every time I would have hitched it up, I'd have to be calculating what I needed to take out so my DW could put in the things she felt we needed for that particular trip. No chainsaw, no tow chain, no battery cables, no extra battery for the trailer, no generator, no fuel can, no extra propane tank.... You get the idea. With the new 3/4 ton truck, I can indiscriminately throw in whatever I want (within reason), I can fill the water tank and I can safely "bounce down that dirt road" with full holding tanks on the way out without worrying about busting my truck axle which would have been overloaded with the half ton.

I urge you, go look at my previous posts from a couple of years ago. I defended (and still do) the half ton/fifth wheel package against "all comers" be they 3/4 ton or dually in nature. That said, there was then and still is now, a limit to what can be safely towed by any truck, be it a half ton, a 3/4 ton or even a F550. I don't doubt you are able to load and tow your rig safely and stay within the payload and GCWR of your truck. It is a capable half ton. But the fact remains that without careful loading, leaving some things behind, not filling the fresh water tank, not being able to tow with half full gray/black tanks, it's not safely "doable" on all situations. I would hate to be stuck in a campground in the boonies with full holding tanks and know that I either have to tow overloaded and risk my truck's axle/tires or dump my waste on the ground so I'm "OK to tow".....

Some people simply aren't willing to make the accommodations needed to tow a large trailer with a half ton truck and honestly, there's no way to know who is and who isn't willing to make those adjustments or even, for that matter, who understands the need to make accommodations. Even for those who are, do they (if they are novices buying their first RV) even know what towing a trailer feels like or what they want to do in the "unknown future"???

It's safer and much more reliable (valid advice) to stick to the established considerations with someone who is not familiar with towing. Like in learning to fly an airplane, you stay on the glideslope when landing, you dont' come in high and hot and then drop with a quick "power on stall" while you're learning. You save the "added extras" for when you gain the experience and have the "by the seat" feel to know what you're doing. Most people who ask the question, "Can I tow this with my truck?" have little or no "seat time" to relate to doing it "outside the box"...... So, sticking to the known values is not only safer, it's the right thing to do for someone who is learning to RV.

[STLCG]

JRTJH, I just read your above post. At no point in time have I ever encouraged or said it was ok to exceed the published limits of anyone’s TV. My point is the exact opposite; as long as one stays within the published limits of the TV they should be safe and legal. But it comes down to the individual and their ability to handle the situation. Can a 1 ton dually handle a pop-up camper? Sure. Can a one-ton dually driven by my 95 year old grandmother handle a pop-up? Heck no!
I recently read a post by a gentlemen telling a story of how he wrecked and totaled his brand new TT and ¾ TV on icy Michigan roads. He stated how glad he was that he was driving a ¾ ton and not a ½ ton because had he been driving a ½ ton it would have been really bad. Really??? Besides the obvious, death and injury, how could it have been worse? The problem was not the TV but the indivialls inability to handle the conditions. I was in the same conditions towing my brand new 31SQB with a ½ ton on ice covered roads with 35 knot direct crosswinds and made it through. Was it fun? Was it relaxing? Hell no!! But I made it through. Would a ¾ or 1 ton made a difference? Obviously not.
I am not sure were the smooth talking sales guy promising you the world came in the conversation? But again what I said was it’s up to the individual to do the research and make the decision that is best for their families
I am all for open and honest conversation but it has to be honest.

[JRTJH]

It would not productive to discuss this any further. To do so would not be productive.