How low can you go? Winter Temps

[Icetug]

Hello,

We recently bought a Montana High Country 334bh and are preparing to hit the road full time. Just wondering how this rig will function in the cold?

It has a heat pump in the living room and of course the silly electric fireplace can be used when plugged in. The question is, how adequate are these for cold weather? At what temps do you have to kick in the propane furnace?

Also, when do you typically energize your tank heaters?

[Canonman]

In short, I'd say the Cougar/Montana are quite adequate and comfortable in moderately cold conditions. Here's what we've found when cold weather camping.
First, our Cougar is not equipped with tank heaters so not able to help much there. That said, we do have a "heated" underbelly which is supposed to keep the tanks from freezing. It uses a duct from the furnace plenum so if we're using the furnace the tanks shouldn't freeze.
We've camped in snowy conditions with temps in the teens and did find the black tank with ice chunks when we went to dump. No problems with the FW or grey tanks.
When we've had shore power available we use a small electric heater to keep the interior warm so your fireplace may not be as silly as it seems. We've had several friends who say their fireplace warms the interior quire well but only if you have shore power.
I'd recommend not engaging the tank heaters if not on shore power since the battery drain might be a problem. Otherwise, I'd turn them on if temps are forecast for 30 or below. Also good to have them on if driving in cold conditions since the charge from your truck should be enough to compensate for the drain on the battery. The cold wind under the coach will freeze your tanks as we have discovered after setting up and trying to use the fresh water.
We typically set our furnace at 60 or so and wear a fleece indoors just to conserve on propane use. YMMV based on your comfort level.
Hope this helps.

[sourdough]

How a rig functions in the cold depends as much on the owner as the trailer; how you prepare it, how you use it and the precautions you take. I've camped in near zero weather in a 1985 Terry Taurus working out of it every day and the only thing that happened was frozen water hose (installed heated water hose) and frozen LP tanks (wrapped in heater tape).

The newer trailers with tank heaters, heat pumps, insulated bellies, fireplaces etc. are light years beyond that old trailer. I've only been in the low 20s in this trailer but it is not an issue - haven't even turned on the tank heaters. For winter stays I always just deploy the heated hose and don't even worry about the regular one. The LP tanks are enclosed instead of on the tongue so I haven't had to worry about them. Heat pump is great but you need to be aware that somewhere in the vicinity of 40 degrees it will become ineffective and I switch to heat with LP. The fireplace is very effective, and welcome. DW loves it. Depending on the temps you can run through a 30lb. LP tank in 3 days (about the shortest time I've ever had) or it might be a week or 2 (winter). In summer we seldom use LP so don't know how long a tank lasts.....a long time.

I am assuming if you are going to be full timing you will be staying with full hookups. If you are going to try to full time and boondock the entire scenario changes because your ability to have, and replenish, your power sources becomes difficult.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Icetug

Hello,

We recently bought a Montana High Country 334bh and are preparing to hit the road full time. Just wondering how this rig will function in the cold?

It has a heat pump in the living room and of course the silly electric fireplace can be used when plugged in. The question is, how adequate are these for cold weather? At what temps do you have to kick in the propane furnace?

Also, when do you typically energize your tank heaters?

First, the "cold in Tacoma" is quite different than the "cold in Bismark or Omaha"... So, what "cold means to you" is probably quite different, depending on where that "cold" is located. Full timing in Omaha will be significantly more "pioneering" than full timing in Jacksonville or Tampa using the "local definition of cold".

Using a trailer in temps with occasional freezing (below 32F) temps is typically no problem while using that same trailer in temps that remain below 0F for days on end is quite different.

So, what/where/how are you intending to "use your Montana High Country 334bh" the circumstances dictate how successful you'll be as well as how comfortable you'll be.

[ASCTLC]

I often camp in very cold and often freezing temps during high elevation (10,000' or higher) camping for a few weeks during elk hunting. If the belly is enclosed and has heated ducts blowing in to it I don't worry about it at all.

I first had my experience with an old 2005 Durango FW years ago. Camped about 10,000' then and the coldest experience temps got down to single digits for a few nights and increased to roughly 35 degrees mid day before heading back down to single digits. the rest of the time stayed aroun 45-50 day/and low about 25 at night. I had 2 30# propane tanks on it and in nearly 2 weeks I had roughly 1/2 tank of propane left in one tank. No electric tank heaters or anything like that, just a furnace blown enclosed and sealed belly. I had the tank/line drains insulated from the outside temps using 1" foam boxes I made for that purpose.

On the 2015 24' Eagle White Hawk TT with enclosed belly but no electric tank heaters it got down to -10 for a couple nights and highs around 20 degrees mid day before heading back down to those sub zero temps. The rest of the trip stayed around 50 daytime/30 nighttime. 2 20lb propane tanks and at the end of a couple weeks hunting I was near empty on both tanks. Since I had only 20# tanks on that trailer I brought an extra full 20# tank from my grill as backup. Like the Durango, I made 1" foam boxes to insulate the drain lines from outside temps. It was so cold I about never got my 2002 Duramax started in the morning. Took all of 12-13 tries before it'd start and run. I had the little Honda 2000i genny running it's butt off charging batteries in boost mode and was going to have to use it on the truck block heater later that day if I couldn't get it started, but I didn't want to stop the boost mode before moving it to the truck block heater.

Sold the White Hawk and now have a 2020 Cougar FW. Enclosed belly with furnace ducted heat and this one has electric tank pads. I can tell you already I won't use them while hunting this year because this 5th wheel is far superior in insulation and sealing than my past 2 campers. As with the previous 2 campers I've gone over the belly sealing with a fine toothed comb and sealed all leaky holes/joints. I already have the drain lines sticking below the belly protected from freezing weather. It has a fireplace but won't be used as I'll explain below.

This year's hunting season is way later than any I've been on before. It's end of Oct and into beginning of Nov. versus beginning Oct. Who knows what we'll have this year in CO but we'll be in the same area I was in back in that Durango years ago.

I've got 2 30# tanks on this Cougar and unless the forecast when the time comes is single digits forecast for at least half the trip I won't bother with extra propane. I hunt cold temps every year and have the propane expectations down...I'm not concerned in the slightest of running out with what is on the FW...especially this FW being better sealed/insulated vs the past two campers I've had and sealed.

As for the fireplace and tank heaters, I boondock exclusively during hunting seasons. No solar just 2 6vGC batteries (235AH), a generator I run an hour or two in the morning when I get up then again at the end of the day (after dark) when I get back to the camper for a couple/few hours and propane for the fridge/furnace/stove. Being I boondock I won't run the 12v tank heaters or the fireplace because I need the generator supplying everything it's got to the IOTA battery charger for max charging in the little time I have and if I need heat in the camper then I want that furnace running so the belly stays warm too.

If I used electric heat/fireplace in the camper then I'm setting the enclosed belly behind in temp. The camper will stay warm enough not to run the furnace but the belly will keep dropping in temp without that blown duct running. If propane amount is never an issue then I'm not gaining anything by not running the furnace and taking unnecessary risk if I don't.

Oh, and I foam insulate the skylights/exhaust vents and close the window shades at night to slow heat loss and open them in the morning to take advantage of the sun radiant 'tin can' heat during the day.

Since hunting season is so late this year I might use a home plastic window seal kit on the windows to further slow heat loss if the forecast looks continual single digits for the 2 weeks.

Well, that's my experience every year.

Andy

[rhagfo]

Well you state full timing, do you plan on traveling the states or staying close to the PNW?
We full time host, and currently staying it the PNW we don’t see temperatures much below freezing for more than a couple days. The fire place and “Heat Pump” are likely 1,500 watts of electric heat each. If the “Heat Pump” function is truly a heat pump they start loosing performance at about 40 degrees.
We added an electric add on unit to our gas furnace, giving us 5,000 watts of heat from the furnace on a 50 amp 240 volt service, or 1,800 watts when on a 30 amp 120 volt service. Safe no electric space heaters to burn up outlets. We also have tank heating pads, they are thermostatic controlled and only come on when below freezing.
Keep in mind below freezing the fireplace, heat pump and space heaters do nothing to keep your pipes from freezing.
It is also a good idea to know your batteries will run your propane furnace overnight! We stayed comfortable overnight in 30 degree temperatures because our battery would run the furnace from 8:00 pm until 7:30 am. The system we have on the furnace is produced by RV Comfort Systems the link is below.

https://www.rvcomfortsystems.com

[GHen]

When we used to go skiing every weekend and we would get into very cold camping, like 20 below….

I had an electric hairdryer that I would put in certain cabinets in the mornings to thaw pipes. After I found which ones were the most susceptible to freezing, I used heat tape, it’s like an extension cord that gets warm along it’s length. I wrapped it around supply lines like to the fresh water tank lines or around the pump, then turn it on overnight or just in the morning to thaw pipes. Of course you need shore power or a generator to power them up.

Gray and black tanks would freeze but knew how much they would hold and use them cautiously then dump on the trip home after we get into warmer weather. Sometime we would start the trip with some antifreeze in the tanks which would settle in the valves to help them thaw quicker.

When it was real cold we would shower at a local rec center or pool center. Turn the pump off when we are away, don’t want a broken pipe spraying water all over when your gone.

You learn how to get by for extended trips.

[cw1001!]

I didn't know they had to be turned on. I thought they automatically come on. My Keystone Cougar supposedly has heated tanks but I don't know for sure. That is what last owner told me. I they have a switch, where would it be?

[sourdough]

First, you might go to the User CP in the upper left hand corner of each page and update (add) your signature and profile with year/model of your RV and truck. It sure helps folks give you more accurate information.

As far as the tank heaters, my switches are in the control panel (as most I've seen). Turn them on and then yes, they automatically come on when the temps get low enough. If they're off, they're off.

[rbrdriver]

My experience with the heat pump is that it works good down to about 40 degrees outside temp, below that it doesn't so you switch to propane furnace. If we are on shore power where we don't have to pay for the electricity we carry a couple of electric space heaters plus the fireplace in front which seems to work quite well. Of course we don't stay anywhere that gets real cold, my "house" has wheels so I can move to where it's warmer..............

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Icetug

Hello,

We recently bought a Montana High Country 334bh and are preparing to hit the road full time. Just wondering how this rig will function in the cold?

It has a heat pump in the living room and of course the silly electric fireplace can be used when plugged in. The question is, how adequate are these for cold weather? At what temps do you have to kick in the propane furnace?

Also, when do you typically energize your tank heaters?

Well how low do you want to go? While we host in the PNW, west of the Cascades so seldom see temperatures much below freezing, but have in the past see several days of over night temps in the low 20's to high teens.

Do you plan on traveling in colder locations in winter? Many buy heated water hoses, I used a heat tape and pipe insulation. The tape is longer than the hose allowing me to protect the faucet and 90 degree inlet fitting at the trailer.

RV propane furnaces are still only about 80% efficient, electric heat is 100% many use space heaters, personally I don't feel they are safe.
As mentioned in an earlier post we chose to go with RV Comfort Systems "Cheap Heat" which in our case is an add on unit to our gas furnace. This allows us to use either gas or electricity for heating. We also have tank heating pads, which are thermostatically controlled so we leave the switch on all the time.
One big issue in damp cold area in the winter is condensation, we also have a dehumidifier to control that. Even so we noted that the bedroom has problems with the bed tight to an outside wall. Condensation will make sheets and even mattress damp. We solved this issue by placing two pieces of 2x4 upright at the head of the bed to create an air space between the mattress and wall. I also have a temperature sensor in the basement near the outside wall and pipes for the bathroom sink so that I know if the basement needs extra heating assistance.
Please respond back with your travel plans and where and what possible cold locations you may go.

[ASCTLC]

I thought I'd update on this years experience with the new (to me) 5th wheel.

Whew it got cold at night! Forecasts, closest to that location, were for upper 20s/lower 30s overnight temps but boy were those overly optimistic. One night was a low of 26 when I got up but that was a warm night compared to the rest. The nights varied from 13 to 20 degrees.

My wife insisted I take the extra 20# tank from the gas grill well...because what could it hurt? Glad I did because I would have cut my usage closer than I could have been comfortable doing knowing it was camper waterline protection more than it was a comfort level for me.

At first I was a little disappointed with 70# usage but for 11 very cold nights I'm rethinking it did just fine keeping the camper warm through the temps it was that whole trip.

The other thing about this set up is the generator/convertor combination vs past campers.

The battery set is the same as I have run in the past: Just a pair of Crown GC235. In the past I was always on a slow slide behind on charge as the days passed but just got through the season without the charge dropping enough to impact the furnace function by morning. Past campers were with the Honda 2000i generator and a 9200 Series Progressive Dynamics 45 amp.

This time I had the Westinghouse iGen4500 and upgraded this RVs convertor charger to the IOTA DSL 55 amp. In addition to that charger I also got two IQ4 Smart Controller modules. One is the IQ4 Smart Charge Controller for 95% of my charging needs and the second is the IQ4 TURBO for fast(er) charging needs I require during such cold hunting temperatures. Simply plug in the one I need for the conditions I'm in.

All I can say is WOW, that battery charging using the TURBO keep me in better battery charge than I could have imagined.

I've never used any kind of solar setup and still don't. Even with running the generator a couple hours in the morning and a couple in the evening before early bed that setup kept those 2 batteries very well charged to get through a hunting season without concern for a drop in performance that would risk not being able to keep that furnace running heavily to prevent freeze damage.

Heck, I even kept my temps bumped up a couple more degrees than I ever have for a little extra comfort this year.

[MurphyIRE]

Lots of Good info