No more Andersen for me, unfortunately - Page 2

RamminTime · 03-22-2021, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Does Lippert authorize the Demco recon?

It is the traditional jaw without any attaching parts so it seems it would meet the criteria.

fluis · 03-22-2021, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Does Lippert authorize the Demco recon?

It is a traditional king pin hitch when it comes to hooking up to the trailer, so they can't say anything. Not really different than the B&W Companion hitch that drops in.

**sourdough** · 03-22-2021, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Does Lippert authorize the Demco recon?

The Lippert warranty says the use of ANY gooseneck ball adapter (the Demco is one) other than the Reese Goose Box will void their warranty. IMO it is purely an effort by LCI to drive the business to Reese.

ChuckS · 03-22-2021, 11:03 AM

YES.. the MEMO is real.. I verified this BEFORE I posted and I spoke with Keystone Customer Service (Elizabel) and she stated the Memo is factual and accurate...

fluis · 03-22-2021, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

The Lippert warranty says the use of ANY gooseneck ball adapter (the Demco is one) other than the Reese Goose Box will void their warranty. IMO it is purely an effort by LCI to drive the business to Reese.

In that case the B&W Companion would also be banned, because it attacked to the vehicle's goose ball location.

What they mean is any gooseneck modification. The Demco Recon dos not modify the trailer, there is no adapter required to be installed in the king pin.

**chuckster57** · 03-22-2021, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluis

In that case the B&W Companion would also be banned, because it attacked to the vehicle's goose ball location.

What they mean is any gooseneck modification. The Demco Recon dos not modify the trailer, there is no adapter required to be installed in the king pin.

B&W uses the “hole” NOT the ball.

To me it’s like the puck vs the rail.

RamminTime · 03-22-2021, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

The Lippert warranty says the use of ANY gooseneck ball adapter (the Demco is one) other than the Reese Goose Box will void their warranty. IMO it is purely an effort by LCI to drive the business to Reese.

I ordered this rail mount version https://www.etrailer.com/Fifth-Wheel...DM8550043.html

fluis · 03-22-2021, 11:11 AM

In the memo it specifically says GOOSE NECK, not GOOSE BALL. So if you want to be technical, it means any modification to the king pin that would turn it into a GOOSE NECK, like the Andersen Hitch or the Pullrite Superlite, which is exactly the same as the Andersen, but the ball is inverted.

**sourdough** · 03-22-2021, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

The Lippert warranty says the use of ANY gooseneck ball adapter (the Demco is one) other than the Reese Goose Box will void their warranty. IMO it is purely an effort by LCI to drive the business to Reese.

Edit: The B&W Companion also attaches to the goose ball, ie; a goose neck adapter. The Keystone memo states "there are various kinds of goose neck adapters in the industry, none of which have ever been "authorized" or approved for use by Keystone...."

Note it says "several", not just Andersen or the Goose Box. I think if one investigates that anything attaching to the goose ball is going to void the warranty because they are in fact "goose neck (ball) adapters".

If it were me and important I would be looking for guidance from Lippert if I had any one of them. Sitting out here in the "tundra" trying to read the minds, and intent, of corporate lawyers at LCI and do self interpretation isn't the best approach.

**JRTJH** · 03-22-2021, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkainz

Yeah - I know - not new but ... Hmmm, sure makes one wonder if this little tidbit of news has ANYTHING to do with "Lippert won't cover damage if you use an Andersen hitch but we will cover if you use the Reese Goose box"

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...127893378.html

No need to "wonder about that little tidbit"... That's EXACTLY what Lippert is saying and Keystone is following that up with "We won't cover the Lippert chassis that Lippert won't cover".... It's been that way since Lippert and Reese "signed the exclusive deal" back in 2011, ten years ago.

Looks to me like the only thing that's changed is Keystone is now saying, "We won't look the other way any longer"....

Javi · 03-22-2021, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

Edit: The B&W Companion also attaches to the goose ball, ie; a goose neck adapter. The Keystone memo states "there are various kinds of goose neck adapters in the industry, none of which have ever been "authorized" or approved for use by Keystone...."

Note it says "several", not just Andersen or the Goose Box. I think if one investigates that anything attaching to the goose ball is going to void the warranty because they are in fact "goose neck (ball) adapters".

If it were me and important I would be looking for guidance from Lippert if I had any one of them. Sitting out here in the "tundra" trying to read the minds, and intent, of corporate lawyers at LCI and do self interpretation isn't the best approach.

The B&W 5th wheel hitch uses a standard pin box and plate; it is not a gooseneck adapter...

Also, the word BALL is not found in the memo...

gkainz · 03-22-2021, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

No need to "wonder about that little tidbit"... That's EXACTLY what Lippert is saying and Keystone is following that up with "We won't cover the Lippert chassis that Lippert won't cover".... It's been that way since Lippert and Reese "signed the exclusive deal" back in 2011, ten years ago.

Looks to me like the only thing that's changed is Keystone is now saying, "We won't look the other way any longer"....

I forgot to use my sarcasm emoji when I said "wonder" ...

The other thing that cranks me up is the Andersen (which I've owned, used and have no complaints about for 8 years now) is NOT a gooseneck adapter. It does NOT lengthen the arm (as in leverage advantage) of the hitch and king pin box ... well ok, I'll backtrack a little ... the height of the ball to kingpin adapter block does lengthen the arm maybe 2"?

**sourdough** · 03-22-2021, 11:33 AM

Yep, ball is not mentioned and the only resemblance an Andersen has to a goose neck is the ball. It does not particularly "adapt" a goose neck platform with the exception of using the bed mount ball. It does have an "adapter" for the elevated ball on top of the platform but that was initially approved by Keystone per the letter. The curious wording, or implication, that there are "various brands of goose neck adapters in the industry, none of which have ever been "authorized" or "approved for use" by Keystone" makes an inquiring mind want to know what those "various brands" are and what specifically DO they consider a "gooseneck adapter"?

I have sent LCI an email asking for clarification so we'll see. I can't imagine they are voiding the warranty on so many kinds of hitches....but I get surprised every day anymore so we'll see. I'll post back if/when I get a reply.

Javi · 03-22-2021, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

Yep, ball is not mentioned and the only resemblance an Andersen has to a goose neck is the ball. It does not particularly "adapt" a goose neck platform with the exception of using the bed mount ball. It does have an "adapter" for the elevated ball on top of the platform but that was initially approved by Keystone per the letter. The curious wording, or implication, that there are "various brands of goose neck adapters in the industry, none of which have ever been "authorized" or "approved for use" by Keystone" makes an inquiring mind want to know what those "various brands" are and what specifically DO they consider a "gooseneck adapter"?

I have sent LCI an email asking for clarification so we'll see. I can't imagine they are voiding the warranty on so many kinds of hitches....but I get surprised every day anymore so we'll see. I'll post back if/when I get a reply.

Here's some.. https://www.etrailer.com/Gooseneck-a...SAAEgKzzPD_BwE

https://www.etrailer.com/Gooseneck-a...ch/GY66FR.html

https://www.etrailer.com/Gooseneck-a...en/AM3139.html

There are several others...

**sourdough** · 03-22-2021, 12:17 PM

What I think of a gooseneck adapter are the "extended" vertical stalks without support more or less and can see that. The Gen Y is literally the same concept as the Reese Goose Box as far as I can tell but not allowed. Then there are the Pull Rite, Andersen etc. that utilize the goose ball/hole for mounting.

I understand the goose neck "adapter" concept and it voiding a warranty. I'm not getting the others or how a Gen Y doesn't make the cut but a Reese Goose Box does? It just seems like Lippert and the owners are playing a "game" and only Lippert knows what it is. Maybe they'll share more specifically; got a response that said they would reply within 24 hrs..

KimNTerry · 03-22-2021, 02:08 PM

Andersen makes regular Gooseneck Adapters in addition to the Ultimate 5th wheel connection. The Andersen Fifth wheel connection is a hitch and not an adapter.

Not authorized
https://andersenhitches.com/collecti...-hitch-adapter

"Grandfathered under the new memo?"
https://andersenhitches.com/collecti...seneck-version

I have the ultimate and I'm past warranty anyways so no change for me.

**JRTJH** · 03-22-2021, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkainz

I forgot to use my sarcasm emoji when I said "wonder" ...

The other thing that cranks me up is the Andersen (which I've owned, used and have no complaints about for 8 years now) is NOT a gooseneck adapter. It does NOT lengthen the arm (as in leverage advantage) of the hitch and king pin box ... well ok, I'll backtrack a little ... the height of the ball to kingpin adapter block does lengthen the arm maybe 2"?

"Getting cranked up" on the forum is like sending smoke signals to Miami. Even if the wind doesn't "distort your message" the "spring breakers are probably pre-occupied and won't even realize the smoke signals aren't clouds spoiling their sunshine".... IOW: message completely lost in translation...

The ONLY way you're going to get your message to the right people is to contact Lippert and Keystone and express your "cranked up displeasure"... Then, if you don't change their mind and they don't change your mind, express your "cranked up displeasure" with your wallet. Problem with that is, you can't buy a towable RV that doesn't have a Lippert frame except in a very few "ultra-light models" that use the NOCO frame, and any of the fifth wheels with NOCO frames are significantly smaller than most people with a 1 ton truck would want to consider...

Sort of "damned if you do and damned if you don't".....

**JRTJH** · 03-22-2021, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KimNTerry

Andersen makes regular Gooseneck Adapters in addition to the Ultimate 5th wheel connection. The Andersen Fifth wheel connection is a hitch and not an adapter.

Not authorized
https://andersenhitches.com/collecti...-hitch-adapter

"Grandfathered under the new memo?"
https://andersenhitches.com/collecti...seneck-version

I have the ultimate and I'm past warranty anyways so no change for me.

According to the memo, the Anderson Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection Goose Neck Adapter is the hitch specifically addressed in the "no further warranty" memo.

"Grandfathered" only if purchased and installed prior to March 15, 2021. Proof of purchase and installation required for any warranty claim. The dealer memo didn't say that was a permanent "grandfathered clause" of if it was subject to change with another memo. I'd guess it'll completley disappear when the current trailers that are using the Anderson hitches reach the end of the 3 year structural warranty.

One thing you can completely count on: Keystone won't be offering any "good will repairs" on trailers with an Anderson hitch under the pinbox.

Dege · 03-22-2021, 03:25 PM

I started a thread a few weeks ago on the same topic. I haven't received my 24RDS yet (early May delivery) but I was told the very same thing about the memo when I ordered it. Actually a few days after I ordered it. The dealer was going to throw the Andersen hitch into the deal but he thought the memo might be a game changer and contacted me. He agreed to put the Reese Goose Box on in it's place with no cost to me. As to how good the Andersen is or isn't doesn't matter.

Meaning no disrespect to anyone here, but unless you are actual trailer frame engineer, someone's view or perception of whether a particular hitch puts more pressure here or is too long there, therefore its going to do xyz to the abc, it is just that, their view. It's as valid as anyone else's view and I have no problem accepting that people will have differing views than others.

We all seem to think Lippert is trying to squeeze the competition with this latest move. I even openly hinted at that in the thread I mentioned above, but I'm willing to at least accept there may actually be valid reasons why Lippert has decided to do what they did. After all they actually DO have trailer frame engineers working for them.

In any case I have a frame warranty on the new trailer when it gets here. If I can accomplish the same job with a hitch they approve of, then I'm going to go with the approved hitch. I'm not interested in wrestling 130-250 pounds of steel in and out of the bed every time I want to use my truck for something other than towing. A bad back and old age is a lethal combination. That was the reason for the Andersen originally and it's the reason for the Reese Goose Box now. But as I said earlier, everyone is entitled to their opinion. That just happens to be mine.

**sourdough** · 03-22-2021, 03:50 PM

Your comments and concerns are perfectly valid and I doubt there is any offense taken by anyone. Buying a new trailer and being told "abc" is your only option pretty much locks your choices down. On the other hand,

I very rarely accept anything I'm told if it's "just because". In this case the memo actually changes the policy of Keystone "just because" without any justification. I, and I'm sure thousands of others, would like to know why Keystone/Lippert (if Lippert ever even accepted the Andersen) suddenly changed courses. I don't know if Lippert actually did frame repairs previously on Andersen equipped RVs but I believe they did.

How does this change come about as Lippert begins to tout the Reese Goose Box....as they snuggle together? If the Reese Goose Box is so good, what is wrong/different with the Gen Y adapter? Rubber cushions? They don't like the bolt pattern....or, they don't like the manufacturer since it's not Reese?? What IS the adapter part they won't warrant? The ball? The cup? The extended, vertical neck? The cup pointing up....down? If they don't accept the goose ball it will really stir up some dust. If they do it still will because then they HAVE to define what part of "adapter" they are talking about.

For me I don't care. I use an Andersen and bought it before their self imposed cutoff date. If they don't like that I'll buy something else, but, every step of the way I have determined I will keep irritating them until we can all get some sort of clear guidance. Lippert is playing games and I don't like that when so many folks depend on using "whatever" they thought was the right choice. And this will have nothing to do with "engineering" I'm sure, simply business tactics.

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