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Old 02-08-2021, 06:30 AM   #21
rhagfo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupaDav View Post
Thanks for the add

I am considering upgrading from a TT to a used 5vr ( 30-32 ft ). Would you mind looking over my numbers and commenting? Could a 5th wheel work safely with my truck?

Truck: 98 Ram 2500 QC 2WD, shortbed, automatic (47RE), 5.9L Cummins, 3.55 rear, factory trailer towing pkg w/ air bags, LT265/75/R16 Tires
240,000 Mi.

Off Door Sticker:
GVWR: 8800
GAWR Front:4410
GAWR Rear: 6084

My CAT scale #'s:
Steer Axle: 3800
Drive Axle: 2840
Curb Wt: 6640 (Full Fuel, Driver onboard )

My Math:

GVWR 8800 minus 6640 curb wt minus 160 for 2nd pass. minus 200 for misc stuff in truck minus 200 5th wheel hitch = 1600# Left over for Pin weight


Using 20% for Pin Weight means a 8000# LOADED 5th wheel?
Using 25% for Pin Weight means a 6400# LOADED 5th wheel?

Are these calc's realistic/close?
What are your experienced recommendations? ( and, no, I can't afford a 1 ton truck AND a new to me 5er )

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions. Great Site
Well take a bit of advice from someone that has been there and done that! Look for a nice TT for that 2 Gen Ram 2500.
Just about any 32' 5er you find for that truck will put you between 1,200# to 1,700# over GVWR.
The only way you cold do it is run about a 15% pin weight, and then the 5er would tow terrible.
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Old 02-08-2021, 09:45 AM   #22
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You might look at the receiver hitch and see if there is a sticker still on it; I don't know how old it is. Somewhere in the manual there may be some reference to using a weight distribution hitch for towing that would give you some additional info.

If there is nothing else, and 900 is the max for that receiver (too low IMO) you might look into removing what you have and installing an aftermarket receiver with better weight capacity. I'm attaching a link to such an animal but I did not look up your truck. They are made by many companies and I'm sure there is one for your truck by one of them. It will let you maximize the weight you can carry (up to a safe limit) and not be hindered by that receiver.

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hit...yABEgJeuPD_BwE
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Old 02-08-2021, 09:46 AM   #23
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This has gotten this ol' boy confused. What is the payload of your truck? It is on the yellow/white placard in the driver door frame. Take 23 percent of the gross weight of a prospective fifth wheel you are considering and compare that number PLUS occupant weights and other truck based cargo to your payload and you will know if you can safely tow that prospective fifth wheel. The stuff in the owner's manual or any brochure isn't really your truck; the payload placard is. Your tow vehicle has plenty of power but the load capacity is the critical issue and that is on the payload placard.
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Old 02-08-2021, 10:34 AM   #24
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I think we're talking about a 1998 Dodge 2500 ?? If so, there wasn't a "payload sticker" on the doorpost. That "shortcut for the owner" isn't available...


So, the next best step is to "find a CAT scale" and weigh the truck, subtract the CAT scale weight from the truck GVWR and that's your payload....

Relying on data from a 20 year old owner's manual or from an "old brochure specification sheet" isn't going to provide any valid information given the "procilivity of previous owners to add accessories to any vehicle".... Things like floor mats, tonneau cover/shell, tool box, running boards, cold air intake system, heavier tires, air bags, overload springs, even that stack of maps in the door pocket all add up and reduce the 20 year old specification payload.....
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Old 02-08-2021, 10:44 AM   #25
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Yes, the 98 won't have the payload sticker as I recall (as well as a long history of possible mods/changes) but the OP did say he had scaled the truck and had the gvw sticker which then left him with his actual payload and no need for the yellow/black/white sticker which I had mentioned earlier.
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Old 02-08-2021, 10:54 AM   #26
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Sorry, missed the 1998 model year in all those numbers; 2160 payload? Bumper pull time or time for a one ton.
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Old 02-08-2021, 11:13 AM   #27
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900 # Tongue Weight Limitation

Question:

How do I know if it is my factory installed hitch that is limiting me to 900# max. tongue weight?
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Old 02-08-2021, 11:39 AM   #28
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900 # Tongue Weight Limitation

Here is a pic of the label on the hitch I have installed. I assume it came with the factory
"Trailer towing package" which is listed on my build sheet.
It would appear as if this receiver, if used with a WD hitch could raise my max. tongue weight to 1000#? Am I understanding this right?
I'm currently using a Hensley WD hitch on my current TT which I could move over to a new to me TT, or just pick up a new Equalizer WD/Sway hitch.

Update: I just saw this same sticker/same exact info ( same numbers ) on a ram 1500 for sale. Does that make a difference in my situation?
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Old 02-08-2021, 12:12 PM   #29
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That sticker says that if you "hitch a trailer to a ball shank stuck in the receiver tube" without a WD hitch, your maximum trailer rating is 5000 pounds with a maximum tongue weight of 500 pounds.

If you hitch a trailer using a WD hitch (Hensley, Equalizer, Curt, Harbor Freight or any other brand) the maximum trailer rating is 10,000 pounds with a maximum tongue weight of 1,000 pounds (assuming the WD hitch is properly adjusted)... This rating doesn't apply if the hitch WD bars are set too low (not distributing weight correctly) or set too high (applying too much weight forward/aft, essentially lifting the rear of the truck off the ground).... So, that 10K/1K rating is for the correctly adjusted hitch.

As for the same sticker on a different truck: The receiver is used on many trucks. It could be on a old Dodge/RAM 50 or on a new RAM 3500. There may be other limiting factors that mean that specific use are lower than the receiver rating or it may mean the truck is capable of much more, but with that receiver, it's limited to "the weakest link" which is this case, would be the receiver...

A chain is only as strong as the weakest link. The receiver is only one link, the bolts are another, the axle rating (front and rear) are another as are the shocks, springs, brakes, tires, frame, transmission, drive shaft... Each has a rating and all the ratings must work together. The weakest component, regardless of location, is the limiting factor for that specific truck.
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Old 02-08-2021, 12:35 PM   #30
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Is that hitch bolted on? If so, I would think about unbolting and buying a quality Class V hitch. E-Trailer.com carries bunches of them.
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Old 02-14-2021, 08:50 AM   #31
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OP you're doing the right thing, and a great job, trying to figure the equation out before you jump in. Lots of folks don't and find themselves in over their heads with no way out.

Your numbers look pretty good, great job scaling the truck - no worrying about that sticker in the driver door! Some thoughts;

I'm thinking the 200lbs. misc. in the truck is too conservative. I base that on the "stuff" I've carried in all my trucks towing a trailer. By the time you figure tools (heavy), compressor (really needed), bbq (can't leave home without it!), bottle jacks, blocks....and the list goes on, 200lbs. isn't going to get you far. OR, you will do as I used to have to do when overweight - leave all the stuff you wanted to go camping with at home which really wasn't any fun at all in the end.

You're figuring 20% pin weight which is at the lower end IMO; I've seen 5ths with pins in the low 20s. You might just up that to 21% to give you just a bit of breathing room.

If you're going to buy and older trailer watch the weights on them. Many of the older trailers did not have the newer technology, light weight materials in use now. Hopefully whatever you look at will have the sticker on the driver front corner of the RV to give you some help.

You said you were looking for a 30-32' trailer; I don't think that will happen, I've certainly not seen one. Just for some thought; maybe take 1500# as what's left for a pin vs the 1600# you were looking at. Not much but gives you a bit of latitude on what's loaded in the truck. With that number you would be looking at a 5th wheel somewhere in the range of 7200lbs. gvw.

You've done some good, thoughtful work trying to do this right. I know that's not what you want to hear and I wish it was something else. Now if you can find a trailer that fits that kind of weight profile that would be super, otherwise I'm afraid it would be too big a stretch IMO.
And, don't forget the weight of the spare tire.
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:27 AM   #32
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There are many numbers, ratings and even math when it comes to figuring out what is legal and safe in towing. There is GVWR (which includes payload), GAWR, GCWR, and a truck's towing limit.

The one that is most have trouble with is GVWR and specifically within it, payload. The other ones while you should always be within the numbers, do not cause the same problems.

Your truck by the door jam sticker (the legal numbers for your truck), say 8800 lb GVWR. When you subtract the curb weight of your truck 6640 lb, the payload is 2160 lb. That number must include the weight transfer from the fifth wheel onto your bed, passengers, hitch, cargo, etc.

The best way to estimate when looking to purchase as you cannot go over a scale with the rig, is to take 20% (when estimating pin weight it is an estimate from 15-25%) of the GVWR of the trailer. So it is saying take the loaded trailer rating (assuming the trailer at its heaviest), and multiply by 20% (everyone will take a different estimate but 20% is a good guess). In your case, while their might be a specific trailer with a lower number, they start at about 9-10000 lb GVWR. Assuming the 10000 number for easy math, that is an estimate of 2000 lbs payload before the hitch, passengers, cargo etc. And your truck has only 2160 lbs available. The numbers appear to make it unlikely that a fifth wheel is a good fit for your specific truck.

The chart from your owner's manual might be the trailer tow numbers for your rig. It shows the max weight your truck can tow, not the amount of payload.

I hope this helps you. But it is good to do exactly what you are doing. Doing research and asking others for their help and opinions.
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Old 02-14-2021, 02:46 PM   #33
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I towed a 1998 carri-lite 34' 5th wheel for a few years with my dodge 2500. The gvwr on the trailer was 10.5k. The dodge was a 2003 2500 diesel 8ft bed 4x4. I have no clue as to the numbers on the truck. It was my first 5th wheel. The trailer didn't squat the truck and we had plenty of power even up the mountains. Now, I check all the numbers and question what my ram 3500 diesel can pull. But I think the numbers are bogus lots of times. I just bought a coachman Northridge 37' 5th wheel. The numbers don't make any sense at all to me. It lists it at 10.5k empty, but doesn't list a gvwr. In doing some research, I find a 15k gvwr. That's 4.5k of payload? Plus it lists the pin weight at 2500lbs. Is that on the empty weght? Doesn’t seem high enough for 15K gvwr. So in the end it's all a crazy shoot. I am sure that my truck can handle it. We will be towing home across the mountains in west virginia, so we will see.
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:33 PM   #34
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I towed a 1998 carri-lite 34' 5th wheel for a few years with my dodge 2500. The gvwr on the trailer was 10.5k. The dodge was a 2003 2500 diesel 8ft bed 4x4. I have no clue as to the numbers on the truck. It was my first 5th wheel. The trailer didn't squat the truck and we had plenty of power even up the mountains. Now, I check all the numbers and question what my ram 3500 diesel can pull. But I think the numbers are bogus lots of times. I just bought a coachman Northridge 37' 5th wheel. The numbers don't make any sense at all to me. It lists it at 10.5k empty, but doesn't list a gvwr. In doing some research, I find a 15k gvwr. That's 4.5k of payload? Plus it lists the pin weight at 2500lbs. Is that on the empty weght? Doesn’t seem high enough for 15K gvwr. So in the end it's all a crazy shoot. I am sure that my truck can handle it. We will be towing home across the mountains in west virginia, so we will see.
The numbers make perfect sense if you know them - but you have to find them. What year, make and model is the Northridge?
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:55 PM   #35
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I towed a 1998 carri-lite 34' 5th wheel for a few years with my dodge 2500. The gvwr on the trailer was 10.5k. The dodge was a 2003 2500 diesel 8ft bed 4x4. I have no clue as to the numbers on the truck. It was my first 5th wheel. The trailer didn't squat the truck and we had plenty of power even up the mountains. Now, I check all the numbers and question what my ram 3500 diesel can pull. But I think the numbers are bogus lots of times. I just bought a coachman Northridge 37' 5th wheel. The numbers don't make any sense at all to me. It lists it at 10.5k empty, but doesn't list a gvwr. In doing some research, I find a 15k gvwr. That's 4.5k of payload? Plus it lists the pin weight at 2500lbs. Is that on the empty weght? Doesn’t seem high enough for 15K gvwr. So in the end it's all a crazy shoot. I am sure that my truck can handle it. We will be towing home across the mountains in west virginia, so we will see.
The issues of being safe and legal do make sense. And in your particular situation, if you do the correct research and find out the numbers for your particular combo, and then do analysis, you will come up with your answers. There is no other way to find out.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:10 PM   #36
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The numbers make perfect sense if you know them - but you have to find them. What year, make and model is the Northridge?
2010 coachman northridge 340bhq
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:18 PM   #37
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I would like to add something here, and I mean absolutely NO disrespect with this, but I feel that it at least needs to be mentioned. The truck is 23 or so years old and weight capacities and ratings that were associated with the truck is for when it was in new condition. I have no idea how you maintain your truck, and you may very well be one of those guys that keeps everything maintained and current with any and all maintenance....I simply am saying that only you know the condition of your truck. So having said that, and depending on how well or not the truck has been maintained, that may factor in on how much or how close you want to be to all of the truck capacities and ratings. And again, no disrespect intended, just another item in the list of things to consider for the sake of safety. Good luck with your search and I sincerely hope you find exactly what you're looking for. Camping is a wonderful hobby that I wish I had started earlier in my life.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:35 PM   #38
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2010 coachman northridge 340bhq
It may be easier if you list your truck and trailer in your profile and signature on the user cp page ...it helps get to the root of problems without having to guess on all your particulars
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Old 02-14-2021, 06:31 PM   #39
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https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2010-...-340dbq-tr4359
Here's the specs for the mentioned rv.
It's just over 37' long with a GVWR of 15k which equals a minimum of 3k (20% of GVWR) pin weight. Not sure how that may fit a 23+ year old 3/4 ton but seems on the heavy side.
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Old 02-15-2021, 06:05 AM   #40
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Op here

Thank you all for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge. We have decided a 5th wheel may not work for us based on everything ya'll have shared. We currently are looking at TT's. Specifically a 2018/19/20 Grand Design 2800BH. Looks like the #'s work for out truck. Would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks ( and yes, truck is freakishly well maintained, I'm the guy that redoes the whole cooling system when I lose a hose..... LOL )

Dave
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