Towing in the snow

[jasin1]

This is something I recommend...I got this because my daughter travels all over the country and Canada backpacking..really nice because you can activate monthly and deactivate for months not used. I can follow along on my computer her path. It leaves breadcrumb trails every so often ..I can send her a text and she can send back as well.
She mostly travels where there is no cell phone service.
My son and his friends took his boat about 80 miles to Cape May last year for a couple of days.
They were doing some offshore fishing. I put this on his flybridge before he left. I could see his entire trip and was able to see when he had some trouble at the mouth of Delaware bay.(I noticed he stopped in one place and wasn’t moving)
It’s just good to be prepared with everything available within reason and finances
Might help if had a crash in a desolate area or during a snowstorm up in the mountains

[Ken / Claudia]

Some points to help when traveling in winter.
If you do not know if road is froze or not, If you see traffic look at what is being tossed up by it's tires. If it's snow likely, frozen road if it's wet/water spray coming up not frozen road.
If you know the road, when going down a grade. Plan on going slow enough to not need the brakes during the down grade. Be able to maintain a slow speed without using brakes by engine braking, use lower gears and or exhaust brake.
If the 18 wheelers are driving 25 in a snow area when there is a speed limit of 65. Might be best to do the same. Slow down match their speed.
The chains used on a trailer are called "drag chains" Use at least a pair, better if all axles have them. Use trailer brakes if you have chains as a way to slow you down a little without loosing steering.
Just plain slow down. Sometimes the speed is so high the best driver doing everything right cannot save it from a crash.

As a elk hunter traveling mountains in NOV/DEC. I have at times left RVs at home. But also driven on snow covered logging roads with unbelievable grades with an RV. Low gear, 4x4 low works wonders. I have been on roads that any braking would cause a crash. Slow to a walk speed if needed.

A question for the comm truck drivers on here. That video to me before the pickup left the road was a classic jackknife taking place. Do others feel the same? I have investigated many of those on bare and wet pavement. Any thoughts about trailer braking to slow and keep the TV able to steer through the curve. Once the TV tires slide, all steering is lost, The (A) heavy trailer pushes the TV usually straight as in the video. Unless it can brake and hold the TV.

[Halcyon]

Can’t tell exactly from the video, but, as I have stated here before, DRW trucks are NOT good on snow/ice! The truck appears to have lost traction first, with the rear of the truck pulling the trailer into the ditch. Once the slide has started, doesn’t matter if the trailer brakes worked.
Speed also appears to be an issue, or the slide would not have happened. Look at the semi coming from the downhill side - he was able to stop way before running into the wreck.
Slow down, use the tow mode to keep the transmission to keep the gearing low, or downshift to keep the revs a bit higher, giving you engine braking, use 4wd if you have it, and you won’t need chains. Also, keep the cruise control OFF, and feather the throttle to prevent spinning the wheels, but keep moving. You shouldn’t have to use the brakes going up hill - one of the things we see flatlanders doing on uphill corners in the snow, then they accelerate like on dry pavement, and they lose traction.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Can’t tell exactly from the video, but, as I have stated here before, DRW trucks are NOT good on snow/ice! The truck appears to have lost traction first, with the rear of the truck pulling the trailer into the ditch. Once the slide has started, doesn’t matter if the trailer brakes worked.
Speed also appears to be an issue, or the slide would not have happened. Look at the semi coming from the downhill side - he was able to stop way before running into the wreck.
Slow down, use the tow mode to keep the transmission to keep the gearing low, or downshift to keep the revs a bit higher, giving you engine braking, use 4wd if you have it, and you won’t need chains. Also, keep the cruise control OFF, and feather the throttle to prevent spinning the wheels, but keep moving. You shouldn’t have to use the brakes going up hill - one of the things we see flatlanders doing on uphill corners in the snow, then they accelerate like on dry pavement, and they lose traction.

I think far more likely that the 5er pushed the TV sides ways, than the TV pulled the 5er into the ditch.
One needs to activate the trailer brakes manually so the trailer doesn’t push the TV on slippery surfaces.

[notanlines]

Jim, I think from watching the vid a coupe times that Russ is correct. I believe the RV pushed the TV into the ditch. He simply was going too fast.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Jim, I think from watching the vid a coupe times that Russ is correct. I believe the RV pushed the TV into the ditch. He simply was going too fast.

I have to agree. I've watched it several times and you can see when the trailer decides it is going to "stay the course" and just pushes the truck. Driver had no business going that fast on that road surface and is tremendously lucky the semi wasn't coming at him the same speed he was going at it or the grill of the semi would have been in the driver door of the truck. Obviously second guessing leaves a lot to be desired but it seems very apparent the driver was just going too fast. Of course I was always a champion armchair quarterback for the Cowboys as well. JMO

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I think far more likely that the 5er pushed the TV sides ways, than the TV pulled the 5er into the ditch.
One needs to activate the trailer brakes manually so the trailer doesn’t push the TV on slippery surfaces.

Do you think when the guy approached the curve he let off the gas and did not use brakes ? His thinking may have been “ I will play it safe no brakes and no gas” BUT with no brakes and no gas you lose all control. The trailer no longer wants to follow the truck, it just wants to continue on its last straight trajectory. If no snow or ice it would just blindly follow the truck but with the ice then it’s just a heavy mass that needs control either by brakes or throttle to keep in track. If you have ever been on a jet ski you would understand that when you let off the throttle and try to “coast” up to a pier that you have no steering at all unless you give it gas

[jasin1]

He should have just kept steady slow pull on throttle
I’m thinking he accelerated up the hill then let off the gas to coast thru the turn. He didn’t want to use brakes because of ice or snow. The trailer and the truck were both going x mph.
The truck slowed down first thru the turn because of the change in direction and weight of the trailer( possibly exhaust brake also ) but no additional brakes meant no trailer brakes either so the trailer would have nothing to slow the mass down on its last trajectory.
So the weight of the trailer would over whelm the weight of the truck and push it on its straight course into the hill on opposite side of road

[77cruiser]

Looked like thin layer of slush, it'll get you every time if you don't slow down.

[travelin texans]

I'm fairly certain the intent of posting this video was to make people aware of how quickly something like this can & to slow down or avoid driving in this type of weather.
I don't think it was a test to see who could figure out what/how it happened or who was at fault, that's up to the LEOs at the scene, the insurance companies & in today's environment possibly a lawyer suing the truck, rv, tire, brake pads manufacturers or anyone/anything else involved.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I'm fairly certain the intent of posting this video was to make people aware of how quickly something like this can & to slow down or avoid driving in this type of weather.
I don't think it was a test to see who could figure out what/how it happened or who was at fault, that's up to the LEOs at the scene, the insurance companies & in today's environment possibly a lawyer suing the truck, rv, tire, brake pads manufacturers or anyone/anything else involved.

Yes your right...it popped up on my YouTube suggestions yesterday or the day before.
It really just surprised me how quickly it went bad.I guess it’s just human nature to try and figure out especially since every time someone posts a reply we get a email notification. It’s nothing more then that just human nature but thanks for replying

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I'm fairly certain the intent of posting this video was to make people aware of how quickly something like this can & to slow down or avoid driving in this type of weather.
I don't think it was a test to see who could figure out what/how it happened or who was at fault, that's up to the LEOs at the scene, the insurance companies & in today's environment possibly a lawyer suing the truck, rv, tire, brake pads manufacturers or anyone/anything else involved.

And I actually like all the responses. It seems like that is what a forum is all about...it’s not a static bulletin board where people quietly look at and then go on their way. It seems like a community of like minded individuals who share ideas and questions and solutions to problems and triumphs. I originally posted this thread because it was something I never even thought about.
Now after hearing all the good responses I came up with something in my mind that makes sense to me.it’s not a who is right and who solved the mystery.
It’s more of “we all contributed to figuring a problem out”. Or at least what we think could have happened.
I’m sure more then one person learned a little from someone else.
I didn’t intend to ruffle any feathers by posting the video...I was truly just seeing if anyone had an idea of what happened..
Have a good evening

[77cruiser]

A lot of people have never driven in snow let alone tow. I still see people up here where we drive in snow for 5-6 months a year that look like they're gonna crap themselves driving in snow.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by bjasin1

And I actually like all the responses. It seems like that is what a forum is all about...it’s not a static bulletin board where people quietly look at and then go on their way. It seems like a community of like minded individuals who share ideas and questions and solutions to problems and triumphs. I originally posted this thread because it was something I never even thought about.
Now after hearing all the good responses I came up with something in my mind that makes sense to me.it’s not a who is right and who solved the mystery.
It’s more of “we all contributed to figuring a problem out”. Or at least what we think could have happened.
I’m sure more then one person learned a little from someone else.
I didn’t intend to ruffle any feathers by posting the video...I was truly just seeing if anyone had an idea of what happened..
Have a good evening

I don’t for a minute think you ruffled any feathers. I watched the video and thought to myself, that’s why I don’t drive let alone tow in the snow unless it’s an unexpected event.

I think a byproduct of posting on a forum is the variety of responses, and that’s not a bad thing. I for one appreciated your post showing how fast life can change, don’t stop.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

I don’t for a minute think you ruffled any feathers. I watched the video and thought to myself, that’s why I don’t drive let alone tow in the snow unless it’s an unexpected event.

I think a byproduct of posting on a forum is the variety of responses, and that’s not a bad thing. I for one appreciated your post showing how fast life can change, don’t stop.

^^^^^myself! Personally I think it may give some something to think about before trying to "haul tail" in conditions like that....or maybe not.

[Ken / Claudia]

I beleive it was a great post, instead of just a photo of a pile up. We had a member post a good video that shows a lot of the "how and what" happened.
We can, through experience of the members on here fill in the blanks about factors that created the crash. We should discuss it and learn a few things. Some on here will never drive in snow, some do.
I will be bold and state with enough speed the same would happen at the same place on a wet road. Snow/ice just made it happen at a slower speed. Thank God the semi did not get involved.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

I don’t for a minute think you ruffled any feathers. I watched the video and thought to myself, that’s why I don’t drive let alone tow in the snow unless it’s an unexpected event.

I think a byproduct of posting on a forum is the variety of responses, and that’s not a bad thing. I for one appreciated your post showing how fast life can change, don’t stop.

Originally Posted by sourdough

^^^^^myself! Personally I think it may give some something to think about before trying to "haul tail" in conditions like that....or maybe not.

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

I beleive it was a great post, instead of just a photo of a pile up. We had a member post a good video that shows a lot of the "how and what" happened.
We can, through experience of the members on here fill in the blanks about factors that created the crash. We should discuss it and learn a few things. Some on here will never drive in snow, some do.
I will be bold and state with enough speed the same would happen at the same place on a wet road. Snow/ice just made it happen at a slower speed. Thank God the semi did not get involved.

I definitely appreciate the collective wisdom and experience of members of this forum that have decades of rv’ing to share with new members like myself...Thanks!

[rhagfo]

[QUOTE=bjasin1;427324]Do you think when the guy approached the curve he let off the gas and did not use brakes ? His thinking may have been “ I will play it safe no brakes and no gas” BUT with no brakes and no gas you lose all control. The trailer no longer wants to follow the truck, it just wants to continue on its last straight trajectory. If no snow or ice it would just blindly follow the truck but with the ice then it’s just a heavy mass that needs control either by brakes or throttle to keep in track. If you have ever been on a jet ski you would understand that when you let off the throttle and try to “coast” up to a pier that you have no steering at all unless you give it gas[/QUOTE]

Well Steering on a Jet Ski is NOT the same as steering on a truck. The jet stream steers a Jet Ski, tires steer a truck.
No brakes and No Gas puts the rig in a neutral stance tires rolling free. I saved my car one time when I was lowing and the rear-end broke loose I pressed the clutch and straightened right out.
If you brake the truck and the trailer brakes act latter than the truck the trailer will PUSH the back of the truck. In snow and ice conditions the gain on trailer should be turned up so they apply a bit ahead of the Truck.

Originally Posted by bjasin1

He should have just kept steady slow pull on throttle
I’m thinking he accelerated up the hill then let off the gas to coast thru the turn. He didn’t want to use brakes because of ice or snow. The trailer and the truck were both going x mph.
The truck slowed down first thru the turn because of the change in direction and weight of the trailer( possibly exhaust brake also ) but no additional brakes meant no trailer brakes either so the trailer would have nothing to slow the mass down on its last trajectory.
So the weight of the trailer would over whelm the weight of the truck and push it on its straight course into the hill on opposite side of road

Well this part is partly right, it appears that he is on a down hill slightly off camber turn, he should have been applying trailer brake lightly as so as he saw the turn.

I will add that I once tow a 2 horse trailer with a 88 F250 4X4 from Butte, MT to Spokane, WA on snow covered roads. Coming down Lookout Pass I used trailer brakes and engine braking together to keep speed under control.

[jasin1]

[QUOTE=rhagfo;427379]

Originally Posted by bjasin1

Do you think when the guy approached the curve he let off the gas and did not use brakes ? His thinking may have been “ I will play it safe no brakes and no gas” BUT with no brakes and no gas you lose all control. The trailer no longer wants to follow the truck, it just wants to continue on its last straight trajectory. If no snow or ice it would just blindly follow the truck but with the ice then it’s just a heavy mass that needs control either by brakes or throttle to keep in track. If you have ever been on a jet ski you would understand that when you let off the throttle and try to “coast” up to a pier that you have no steering at all unless you give it gas[/QUOTE]

Well Steering on a Jet Ski is NOT the same as steering on a truck. The jet stream steers a Jet Ski, tires steer a truck.
No brakes and No Gas puts the rig in a neutral stance tires rolling free. I saved my car one time when I was lowing and the rear-end broke loose I pressed the clutch and straightened right out.
If you brake the truck and the trailer brakes act latter than the truck the trailer will PUSH the back of the truck. In snow and ice conditions the gain on trailer should be turned up so they apply a bit ahead of the Truck.



Well this part is partly right, it appears that he is on a down hill slightly off camber turn, he should have been applying trailer brake lightly as so as he saw the turn.

I will add that I once tow a 2 horse trailer with a 88 F250 4X4 from Butte, MT to Spokane, WA on snow covered roads. Coming down Lookout Pass I used trailer brakes and engine braking together to keep speed under control.

Lol yes the jet ski analogy may haves been a stretch...I usually draw from my limited experiences and try to match it to current situations. Lol thanks

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by bjasin1

He should have just kept steady slow pull on throttle
I’m thinking he accelerated up the hill then let off the gas to coast thru the turn. He didn’t want to use brakes because of ice or snow. The trailer and the truck were both going x mph.
The truck slowed down first thru the turn because of the change in direction and weight of the trailer( possibly exhaust brake also ) but no additional brakes meant no trailer brakes either so the trailer would have nothing to slow the mass down on its last trajectory.
So the weight of the trailer would over whelm the weight of the truck and push it on its straight course into the hill on opposite side of road

Looking again at the video and what you said, I believe you are right on. No power to pull, and no slowing down = uncontrolled mass in the direction it was heading. I wouldn’t have thought of that exact combination of effects. Since I have hauled my rig up hill in a snowstorm at night (west side of Eisenhower pass, AKA “IKE challenge” on TFLTruck.com), I will take this new knowledge with me if it happens again.