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Old 03-19-2017, 07:55 AM   #41
canesfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
The max payloads listed are for W/T (work truck) stripped models with gas engine. The OPs truck will weigh in around 7,200-7,400 lbs (if my memory is correct from my 2011 2500 dmax). Since we don't have all of the deatials of the truck, his GVWR is either 9,500 or 9,900. Based on my calculations, worst case scenario he has about 2,100 lbs of payload, best case is going to be 2,700 lbs. By the time he adds everything, hitch, family, gear, etc....my guess is he'll be adding between 3,000 to 3,500 lbs. As everyone has already stated, the scales will tell the real numbers, but I'll go ahead and put this out that I wouldn't be surprised if the scales show 1,000 lbs over weight. That's why I know longer have a 2500!
But...but...but...my 2500 is just like a 3500...without the extra helper spring.











^^^ IT had to be said.

And you know I'm joshing, I hope.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:07 AM   #42
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Real world numbers.........2011 F250 4x4 Crew Cab Diesel. 10,000 lbs GVWR, Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) 2150 lbs. When I bought the truck 6 1/2 years ago, I knew absolutely nothing about the CCC and how that would limit my choices of trailers in the future. I simply figured that a 3/4 Ton truck would pull about anything that I wanted to put behind it. My plan, back in late 2010, when I bought the truck was to buy a 5th Wheel Toy Hauler when I got closer to retirement age (now) and I already had the truck and it's paid for. Well, last fall when I started looking around for my 5ver, I very quickly discovered pin weights, CCC of my truck, and the fact that I didn't buy near enough truck 6 years prior, for what I was wanting to do. The 5ver Toy Haulers that I was interested in all had pin weights that would overload my CCC by a couple hundred pounds all the way up to several hundred pounds.....and that was just the published pin weight. Of course, that doesn't count the weight of the 5ver hitch, additional cargo, etc. So, I had a choice. I could either buy a different truck that had the capacity that I needed, or I could switch gears so to speak and start looking at a tow behind T.H. that would work with the truck that I have. Not wanting to buy a different truck, as I'm very happy with this one, I started looking for T.H.s that I could safely tow with my limited CCC of my F250. Now the truck is capable of towing 14, 100 lbs, but the CCC was the limiting factor that wouldn't allow for a 5ver of the size that I wanted. So now, I have a 34 1/2' tow behind T.H. and with a good weight distribution hitch and a total CCC less than the truck's yellow sticker numbers.

I admit that I was totally in the dark back then....I just figured I could tow whatever I wanted to, after all, I had a 3/4 Ton truck with a 400 H.P. Diesel that makes a published 800 ft. lbs. of torque......Boy was I wrong! Lesson learned for sure, and I'm really not disappointed that I've got a tow behind instead of a 5ver, because the T.H. that I have is going to be very nice for us and it's just one of those life lessons you learn and move on with what you have.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:07 AM   #43
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If the OP would tell us what the payload sticker says it might help resolve this thread. Hope he contacted Javi and they were able to work through it.


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Old 03-19-2017, 09:06 AM   #44
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It can tow up to 14600 but the yellow sticker on the door will tell you what it can carry. Two different animals. I can pull my wheel barrow full of dirt but I can't carry it
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:39 AM   #45
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This and some other threads have had folks asking a question but, it is or was really the wrong question to ask. To solve the problem they did not understand. Many on here including myself has attempted to help. By giving advice that would help. We never read the facts or reasons why the question was asked in the first place. I think this might fall into that category and we never get the rest or the story. I would like to keep the OP on here answering a few questions we asked. And with all that as been said asked who or why did the OP think the weight of that trailer was fine with that truck. My guess would be a salesman that should not be selling RVs.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:47 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by xrated View Post
Real world numbers.........2011 F250 4x4 Crew Cab Diesel. 10,000 lbs GVWR, Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) 2150 lbs. When I bought the truck 6 1/2 years ago, I knew absolutely nothing about the CCC and how that would limit my choices of trailers in the future. I simply figured that a 3/4 Ton truck would pull about anything that I wanted to put behind it. My plan, back in late 2010, when I bought the truck was to buy a 5th Wheel Toy Hauler when I got closer to retirement age (now) and I already had the truck and it's paid for. Well, last fall when I started looking around for my 5ver, I very quickly discovered pin weights, CCC of my truck, and the fact that I didn't buy near enough truck 6 years prior, for what I was wanting to do. The 5ver Toy Haulers that I was interested in all had pin weights that would overload my CCC by a couple hundred pounds all the way up to several hundred pounds.....and that was just the published pin weight. Of course, that doesn't count the weight of the 5ver hitch, additional cargo, etc. So, I had a choice. I could either buy a different truck that had the capacity that I needed, or I could switch gears so to speak and start looking at a tow behind T.H. that would work with the truck that I have. Not wanting to buy a different truck, as I'm very happy with this one, I started looking for T.H.s that I could safely tow with my limited CCC of my F250. Now the truck is capable of towing 14, 100 lbs, but the CCC was the limiting factor that wouldn't allow for a 5ver of the size that I wanted. So now, I have a 34 1/2' tow behind T.H. and with a good weight distribution hitch and a total CCC less than the truck's yellow sticker numbers.

I admit that I was totally in the dark back then....I just figured I could tow whatever I wanted to, after all, I had a 3/4 Ton truck with a 400 H.P. Diesel that makes a published 800 ft. lbs. of torque......Boy was I wrong! Lesson learned for sure, and I'm really not disappointed that I've got a tow behind instead of a 5ver, because the T.H. that I have is going to be very nice for us and it's just one of those life lessons you learn and move on with what you have.

I think many, if not most, of us have been in the place you describe above. When making those decisions back then, much like the OP I imagine, I really paid no thought to "all those numbers" floating around. Why? I had a "big" truck that could "pull a house" so those numbers didn't come on the radar. Was I trying to do something wrong? No. Was I trying to endanger anyone? No. I was ignorant. It took time and research to look into all of it; and that was after I decided I was going to spend a LOT of time pulling a larger RV.

The interplay between all of the weight numbers is confusing for a person new to towing. They are coming from the same place many of us were back when; bought a BIG truck that looks like it can tow anything. Now, they are shocked to find that that isn't the case. I remember way back when when a 3/4 ton might as well have been a Mack truck the way they seemed in my mind. Little did I realize their shortcomings.

When the OP asks a legitimate weight question I think it is incumbent on the members to give the best advice they can to keep the OP safe and legal. I don't call that being the "weight police" nor do I think it is being "mean" to try to explain the issue as best you can. I do understand how those discussions lend to popping some popcorn and slathering it with butter I know I do......I spent 2 hours last night picking corn kernels out of my teeth after reading/writing on this thread
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:55 AM   #47
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I'd be extremely surprised if you are not grossly over your truck's payload limit with a dry pin weight of 2390... There is a yellow sticker on the door what will tell you the payload limit... then subtract every pound you add to the truck like the hitch, luggage, people, pets, maps, ice chests... etc.


but don't worry, there will be several folks come along in a few minutes and tell you how they pull much larger trailers with one wheel tied behind their back...
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The 338db is too big for a regular 3/4 ton IMO. The pin is 2390 dry per Keystone. I know one poster thought it might be reversed and 1700 should be the pin. If you look at the website that would make the 338 pin weight much less than ANY of the other trailers while it is the, or one of the, largest so....gotta go with the website.

The 2390 pin will only go up; how much? 500 lbs? At least. Substantially more? Probably. At that point you need to look at the sticker on the door for payload. Take the anticipated pin weight, and the weights of all the things mentioned previously and you will be WELL over 3000 lbs.; maybe 4000. A 3/4 ton, of any kind, does not have that kind of payload. I know you think that the Duramax makes it better....not really. The diesel makes a big hit on your payload. It is a fine dance between payload, towing capacity, axle weights etc. As was suggested, load the truck and trailer up completely as if going on a month vacation. Take it to a scale and see where you land. You will be over payload if not a number of other indexes.

You have to realize there are some that believe if your truck will make it move you're good to go...you're not. Some will tell you "hey, it's a 3/4 ton but it can do anything a one ton can, it's just politics and it's rebadged "because".....that's not the case. It is a way for those running over their legal limits to justify it in their minds. Heck, one of them passed me on my way back from FL. 3/4 ton Ford, Landmark 5th wheel, bed drooped, ran past me at at least 75. Laughing, having a brew. Wind blowing about 30 or so. I'm rock steady in my rig at 65. These yahoos are all over both lanes (from time to time. At times they did stay in the same lane) with people trying to get out of their way. I'm positive they had justified in their mind that they were "good to go" and that 3/4 ton was really a 350 or 450 in disguise. Well, I guess everyone knew differently other than them.

Just load it all up, weigh it, look at the numbers on your truck and trailer and you make the decision.
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I was going to just post the part necessary, BUT this is where the weight police start going overboard as much as the those that say a 3/4 ton can tow 16,000#!

Well the 338DB, only has a payload of 1,700#, so getting to 4,000# will be a little hard.
What is scary, is the 338DB at 37' only has a payload of 1,700#! That and it has a W/D prep!

I for one would love to see the OP's numbers before and after, might be interesting.
GM's have light trucks, so his payload might have some room.

To the morons that passed you, would it matter if they had a one ton DRW, likely would have been all over the road.

Your last statement is what we all really need to know, loaded weights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I figured you would pop in

You, nor I, have any idea how Keystone specs the trailer, but it is spec'd. And the numbers are there whether you agree or not....it is irrelevant.

With a 2390 dry pin weight, washer/dryer up front and the pass through.....do we think the trailer won't hit 3000 lbs.? If you read my post I said 3000? 4000? Food for thought.

I am not the weight police. I am actually trying to inject common sense to those that refuse to believe in established norms/laws/real life.

A poster said this truck, GMC Sierra 3/4 ton Duramax has a payload of 3358lbs. That link needs to be posted. If that is correct, and I've never seen anything like it, I need to switch horses and go to GM (I won't).

Now, for the weight slip.............
I agree lets see what the weight slip come back as. but there are several post here that spell doom and gloom starting with Javi stating that they are likely GROSSLY over payload. I feel that is just as bad as someone stating that "No Problem, good to go".
All factors need to be looked at we are talking carrying/pulling a 12,000# GVWR 5er with a 2500.
I agree the OP needs to be made aware of weight rating and the possible legal ramifications if the OP chooses to continue to carry/tow this 5er with the current TV.

In addition, and a possible larger issue is the extremely low (1,700#) Payload capacity on the 5er!! The 5er in question is about 36' long 1,700# goes into 36' real easy, and then some!! So in my opinion with this 5er the bigger danger is overloading the 5er, as there is much less margin for error before the China bombs and minimal axles are overloaded, FAR tighter than the 2500 TV axles and tires in question.

Like stated above it is all speculation until the OP post a weight slip!! Once a weight slip is posted and we have the Information from the VIN and payload sticker, then we can real advice.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:07 AM   #48
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I agree lets see what the weight slip come back as. but there are several post here that spell doom and gloom starting with Javi stating that they are likely GROSSLY over payload. I feel that is just as bad as someone stating that "No Problem, good to go".
All factors need to be looked at we are talking carrying/pulling a 12,000# GVWR 5er with a 2500.
I agree the OP needs to be made aware of weight rating and the possible legal ramifications if the OP chooses to continue to carry/tow this 5er with the current TV.

In addition, and a possible larger issue is the extremely low (1,700#) Payload capacity on the 5er!! The 5er in question is about 36' long 1,700# goes into 36' real easy, and then some!! So in my opinion with this 5er the bigger danger is overloading the 5er, as there is much less margin for error before the China bombs and minimal axles are overloaded, FAR tighter than the 2500 TV axles and tires in question.

Like stated above it is all speculation until the OP post a weight slip!! Once a weight slip is posted and we have the Information from the VIN and payload sticker, then we can real advice.

Awwww... shucks I don't give out feel good prognostications, and I'd be willing to bet that it will, when fully loaded; exceed the stickered payload by several hundred pounds...

As for carrying capacity... my '15 Cougar 333MKS is pretty close to the OP's...
Dry...10330
Carry Capacity....1760
Pin....1690

And as a note... my loaded pin weight is more than 2600 lbs...

I owned a '12 F250 XL diesel with a payload of 2160... I already got that tee shirt
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:53 PM   #49
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Just a friendly reminder of your words RHAGFO .

Quote:
While I will never tell anyone to load over the 3/4 ton 10,000# GVRW, I do
Not whole quote , but you get the point .

It is in no way legal or morally correct to haul overweight . Blah Blah Blah , round and round we go

The OP needs to figure out what is best for themselves at the end of the day. Once again, tons of info provided. Never perpetuate hauling illegally . Your home state or province will dictate what is legal and that will follow you for the balance of rules.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:58 AM   #50
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Dry Weight 9,731 lbs.
Payload Capacity 2,389 lbs.
GVWR 12,120 lbs.
Hitch Weight 1,720 lbs.
TV rating (the sticker weight that everyone was waiting for) 9,900 lbs.

I know that there was some question has if the hitch weight and the carrying capacity were switched. I can tell you that the above numbers are the listed weights (from Keystone)

maybe this helps clear the air a little bit. I do also want to say that it is just my wife and I and we dont have a ton to load into the trailer. Just enough to get to where we need to be, drink beer, cook smores, and laugh the night away.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:05 AM   #51
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...
TV rating (the sticker weight that everyone was waiting for) 9,900 lbs.

maybe this helps clear the air a little bit. I do also want to say that it is just my wife and I and we dont have a ton to load into the trailer. Just enough to get to where we need to be, drink beer, cook smores, and laugh the night away.
The 9900 pound number you just provided is only PART of the required information. along with that goes another number on that same sticker, the PAYLOAD. 9900 is the maximum your truck can weigh, the payload is the maximum you can add to the existing empty truck before it reaches 9900 pounds. The PAYLOAD (from that sticker on the doorpost) is everything you add, hitch, firewood, passengers, dog, maps, running boards, GPS, tools, generator, gas can, etc. It adds up very quickly.

Your objective, to get where we need to be, drink beer, cook smores and laugh, is the same objective most of us have. We all want the last part, the smiles and laughs to continue. That's the reason for not overloading your truck, operating it unsafely and always having "enough equipment reserve" to not damage anything or hurt anybody while you're doing the first objective, getting there......
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:29 AM   #52
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To tow a large trailer you should learn and know what GVWR means for each vehicle, Payload of each vehicle, empty weight of each vehicle, hitch weight of trailer, CGVWR for the tow vehicle and axle weight ratings on the tow vehicle. Since you have both vehicles those are numbers easy to look up. You listed about half so far. Than go to the scale and get real weights. After that is done look at what the max. weight the tires are made to carry. Do not be alarmed when the trailer weights more than Keystone says. That is normal.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:19 AM   #53
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Just a note... He was busy and I never spoke to him..
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:33 PM   #54
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Load er up, run it across the scale and go camping. Use your common sense and make your own judgment call after lighting the fire and consuming at least 6 beers. You will more than likley be over your GVWR of the truck and your associated payload because of the commercial imposed 10,000 Lb GVWR rating. It is your call depending how much over you will be as whether or not you need to go truck shopping. As you already stated you will be well under your GCWR and your GAWR. What you will be told, and have been told is if you get into a accident and you are over any # (3/4 ton BS payload) you are risking a liability issue which could be the case if you caused an accident. It is your choice as to whether you feel you could have a litigation problem and risk loosing everything and need to proceed to your local automotive dealer. To this date I have yet to see anyone actually factually provide a case involving an RV, 3/4 ton truck, that was over GVWR under everything else and have to fight a case. Yes there are cases of someones brothers mothers sisters dads aunts cousin who was clearly over weight let it be an RV, farm rig, or any combination that lost everything because they were negligent. Again it is your call to decide whether you are negligent, or if some Dumbed Down American Judge/Jury without common sense will convict you of being negligent.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:37 PM   #55
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Sometimes I just wish all states would require ALL tow vehicles to go over the scales. Then we would not hear how a 1/2 to is really a 1 ton and a 3/4 can tow Trump Tower if the yellow sticker is ignored. I heard twice while wintering in FL this year FL is considering checking random RVs. If true other states will see the revenue potential..
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:55 PM   #56
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Sometimes I just wish all states would require ALL tow vehicles to go over the scales. Then we would not hear how a 1/2 to is really a 1 ton and a 3/4 can tow Trump Tower if the yellow sticker is ignored. I heard twice while wintering in FL this year FL is considering checking random RVs. If true other states will see the revenue potential..
Good, EVERYTHING is tagged at it's engineered weights and everything goes across the scale. Finally we all agree on something. Just look at how messed up the Government has the ratings of trucks all because of a "commercial" status. With the newer rolling scales these days it is not much of an inconvenience to go through at 20 mph.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:13 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia View Post
To tow a large trailer you should learn and know what GVWR means for each vehicle, Payload of each vehicle, empty weight of each vehicle, hitch weight of trailer, CGVWR for the tow vehicle and axle weight ratings on the tow vehicle. Since you have both vehicles those are numbers easy to look up. You listed about half so far. Than go to the scale and get real weights. After that is done look at what the max. weight the tires are made to carry. Do not be alarmed when the trailer weights more than Keystone says. That is normal.
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Sometimes I just wish all states would require ALL tow vehicles to go over the scales. Then we would not hear how a 1/2 to is really a 1 ton and a 3/4 can tow Trump Tower if the yellow sticker is ignored. I heard twice while wintering in FL this year FL is considering checking random RVs. If true other states will see the revenue potential..
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Good, EVERYTHING is tagged at it's engineered weights and everything goes across the scale. Finally we all agree on something. Just look at how messed up the Government has the ratings of trucks all because of a "commercial" status. With the newer rolling scales these days it is not much of an inconvenience to go through at 20 mph.
So what will the DOT go by, one year of F150 had like 15 different GVWR, each increase about 50#. So the weigh master is going to get out of the station and look at the door tag?
Then will they look at it like OTR? front axle + rear axle equals GVWR.

In addition he GCWR is based on the HP Torque and axle ratio, and is not listed on the VIN or Payload tag. It can be increased simply by changing the axle gear ratio.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:30 PM   #58
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So what will the DOT go by, one year of F150 had like 15 different GVWR, each increase about 50#. So the weigh master is going to get out of the station and look at the door tag?
Then will they look at it like OTR? front axle + rear axle equals GVWR.

In addition he GCWR is based on the HP Torque and axle ratio, and is not listed on the VIN or Payload tag. It can be increased simply by changing the axle gear ratio.

This is a battle that can't be won by anyone espousing just "try to follow the rules". It's like life; you either just follow the rules or always find a way to try to bend them.....I have a family member like that......and I've paid many thousands of dollars trying to just keep them in a "safe" zone.

You can always look for a "crack" that YOU think exists, some "something" that the law didn't understand that you did, some reason the guy with the badge is going to "understand" your rationale for not following the rules; it's all cool until the SHTF.

I've spent many hours and thousands of dollars helping family and friends as they try to "undo" mistakes in judgement, and you know, when I was younger I did the same thing....then I got smart.

What any person does is their decision. In days past I had sway on how that would play out for many people....now, it's just me and DW. What you choose to do, the degree that you choose to comply with established guidelines/laws is your decision. I wish you the very best in what you do.....just don't be breaking the rules and run into me (physically)....
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:26 PM   #59
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Safety is critical when towing an RV Trailer. This training video discusses the importance of understanding a Truck's ratings and how these ratings limit the size of the trailer that can be safely towed. You will be provided the tools and basic understanding needed to assist your endeavor to properly match a truck and trailer, so that you can enjoy RVing safely.

http://rvsafety.com/rv-education/mat...ks-to-trailers
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:33 PM   #60
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So what will the DOT go by, one year of F150 had like 15 different GVWR, each increase about 50#. So the weigh master is going to get out of the station and look at the door tag?
Then will they look at it like OTR? front axle + rear axle equals GVWR.

In addition he GCWR is based on the HP Torque and axle ratio, and is not listed on the VIN or Payload tag. It can be increased simply by changing the axle gear ratio.

When I registered my older Dodge truck here in SC I got the awaking that they were going to tax it according to it's GCWR. The person I was working with got out a book of VINs for my particular year and model truck and informed me my GCWR was 22,000#. I told her I needed the extra I gained with 4.10 gearing and showed her the bill of sale that included the dealers added 4.10 option. I was taxed for 23,500#. SC has a very active state DOT patrol. Being found over the GCWR with SC tags is very expensive and the end of your travel day until the discrepancy is corrected.
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