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Old 01-17-2016, 11:08 PM   #21
buzzcop63
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Used the bulbs listed above on my comments this last season with out problems. Our trips out would run about 5 to 8 nights at a time and come evening I turned on all the trailer internal lights, spent 41 nights out for the season. By evening time and TV viewing we would cut off the lights in the kitchen/family room area and used a lamp with a spiral bulb as it puts out a low light that is great for watching TV. Converter never did come on, heat was way down and light was just about right, great feeling to leave bedroom lights on and not worry about heat and made the trailer a lot more comfortable.
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Old 01-18-2016, 10:49 AM   #22
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Previously I had posted about using the LEDs buzzcop referred to and having multiple problems. I changed them out to these from Amazon;

GRV T10 921 194 24-3528 SMD LED Bulb lamp Super Bright Cool White AC/DC 12V -28V Pack of 10


They are the 12-28v leds in cool white vs warm white. They are brighter and have just a bit of a neon light look but still very nice. I've had zero issues with them.

Also, it appears my bad experience with the first leds was an anomaly. It was suggested I might have a converter problem or? I have found that I do indeed have a bad battery that was apparently cannibalizing my electrical system. I suspect this had a lot, if not everything, to do with the failures of the first leds.
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Old 01-18-2016, 12:53 PM   #23
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Thank you so much for the info. We just purchased our Passport and have not used it for the first time yet but I ordered the LED lights and will replace them before our first trip. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 01-18-2016, 03:39 PM   #24
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I have 3 of those light fixtures in the storage bay. Puts out a good bit of heat. I left them on for 6 days continuous this last week in Tulsa to put some heat in the storage bay. No obvious problem, but I'll look closer.

I just cut and pasted those LED bulbs to Amazon and saw this comment:
Notice: Cannot use for DC 13V RV or Above DC13v,high voltage may very hot and Burned out!

If I wanted bright white for the storage bay what would y'all recommend? Not so much concerned with power consumption as they are used for a short time. Maybe I could switch back to incandescent for cold weather heaters, if I don't burn the trailer down.
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
I have...I just cut and pasted those LED bulbs to Amazon and saw this comment:
Notice: Cannot use for DC 13V RV or Above DC13v,high voltage may very hot and Burned out!

If I wanted bright white for the storage bay what would y'all recommend? Not so much concerned with power consumption as they are used for a short time. Maybe I could switch back to incandescent for cold weather heaters, if I don't burn the trailer down.
There are two different "input voltage" types of LED's. Here are the two that have been posted in previous threads and in this thread (Post #12). The first is: http://www.amazon.com/GRV-24-3528-Su...m+White+CD+12V

and the second is: http://www.amazon.com/24-3528-Bulb-S...m+White+CD+12V

Other than the $3 difference in price for a package of 10, note that the input voltage for the "cheaper ones" is 12 VDC and the voltage for the "more expensive ones" is 12-28 VDC.

The cheaper ones are OK for use on battery power, but when you plug into shore power and the converter kicks in, the voltage can go as high as 14.4 VDC. That is "too much" voltage for the 12 VDC LED's and they will begin to show "problems". Most common problems are overheating and "blinking" or "flashing" of the individual LED's soldered to the board. Actually, the LED's are being "overdriven" and are "shorting out internally" from the high voltage.

If I were you, I'd look for LED's that are listed as "12-28 VDC" in the color range you prefer. The higher the color temperature, the "brighter white/blue/purple" (similar to NEON lights or even more purple) the light output will be and the lower the color temperature, the more yellow (similar to incandescent bulbs) the output will be.

ADDED: As for the temperature in your front storage compartment. If you're concerned with the temperature in that compartment, why not buy a cheap "indoor/outdoor" thermometer. Mount it next to your thermostat inside the trailer and mount the "outdoor transmitter" in the storage compartment. That way you'll know if you need to increase heat in the compartment. I've found that in most "cool weather conditions" (down to about 20F) the "heat leakage" from the bathroom/bedroom furnace run and the lack of insulation on the bathroom floor is enough to keep the compartment temps in the 40's and above as long as the trailer interior is in the 60's or 70's.
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
I have 3 of those light fixtures in the storage bay. Puts out a good bit of heat. I left them on for 6 days continuous this last week in Tulsa to put some heat in the storage bay. No obvious problem, but I'll look closer.

I just cut and pasted those LED bulbs to Amazon and saw this comment:
Notice: Cannot use for DC 13V RV or Above DC13v,high voltage may very hot and Burned out!

If I wanted bright white for the storage bay what would y'all recommend? Not so much concerned with power consumption as they are used for a short time. Maybe I could switch back to incandescent for cold weather heaters, if I don't burn the trailer down.
That's the light I am using as well, you might want to look again. I checked and saw no such warning.
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Javi View Post
That's the light I am using as well, you might want to look again. I checked and saw no such warning.
Javi,

http://www.amazon.com/GRV-24-3528-Su...m+White+CD+12V

On these LED's, the statement that gearhead talks about is the 4th bullet statement in the description. They are the 12 volt ones, not the 12-28 volt ones.
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:46 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Javi,

http://www.amazon.com/GRV-24-3528-Su...m+White+CD+12V

On these LED's, the statement that gearhead talks about is the 4th bullet statement in the description. They are the 12 volt ones, not the 12-28 volt ones.
John, on my phone your link provides no such warning . In fact the description actually says for use in rv's.

I'll get my laptop turned on in a few and try your link from it.
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:56 PM   #29
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It must be a "phone thing" Here's the four bullets:


• Super Bright High Quality
• Durable in use Really Long Lifetime
• Super Energy-saving
• Notice: Cannot use for DC13V RV or Above DC13v,high voltage may very hot and Burned out!
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Old 01-18-2016, 05:04 PM   #30
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Javi

On my laptop it's the 4th bullet in the description and if you look at the 1st Q@A about lumens GRV again states that above 13vdc causes problems. Probably a phone thing....mine has quit even updating my emails so go figure........
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Old 01-18-2016, 05:21 PM   #31
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Sourdough,

I don't remember ever seeing that 4th bullet when I looked at the link in the past. "Back when" we were discussing your 12VDC vs 12-28VDC issues, I'm sure that statement wasn't part of the description. Maybe the seller has had enough complaints about flickering/overheating LED's to finally add the statement?

As LED technology advances, the level of understanding what we're buying will also improve. I well remember my first LED bulbs, they were "40 watt equivalent" bulbs, had about 20 LED's mounted on "stems" in a clear plastic globe. We still have them and they are barely brighter than a nightlight. Of course back then, just the novelty of an LED light that could replace an incandescent bulb was "advanced technology".

Even as "bright" and "color correct" as my 5 year old LED's are, the newer ones are "brighter, closer to incandescent color and use about half as much energy". I'm considering replacing my "outdated LED's during this camping season. While I'm satisfied with their performance, I know the newer ones will give us even more "dry camping time", something we're trying to increase without adding another bank of 6 volt batteries... (We really can't justify the added battery weight).
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Old 01-18-2016, 06:04 PM   #32
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John,

I do not recall that warning either on any of the 12vdc only led's I researched and I suspect you are on the money about the complaints. From my experience the 12vdc led's have very little tolerance for variation.

Your observation about advancement is correct. Whether the little spiral looking bulbs for the home or the led's for our RVs they are improving daily. If you're looking for maximum efficiency to extend dry camping I think you probably owe it to yourself to upgrade to the latest/greatest. The current pricing is not bad at all. At $22-24 for ten they're a bargain. I've replaced all of mine with the those that I listed earlier. When I bought the trailer the converter came on as soon as I turned one of the light switches on. Now, I can turn on all the lights operated by the light switches, in excess of 20, and the converter is quiet. If I turn on any other light in the reading areas, under cabinet etc. the converter kicks in, but, that is a tremendous improvement over what I had.

Depending on what a person wants I've found that the "super bright warm white" are pretty close to the incandescent light levels we had. I wanted something a little brighter, particularly over the counter and island so went with the " super bright cool white" the last go round. They are brighter than the warm white and look more like a fluorescent light. That is OK by me but anymore the fluorescent lights have all kind of "colors" and these are a little on the "whitish/slightly bluish" side. Not exactly what I wanted but OK and fine for the cooking area. If you want something more in line with the incandescent look the warm white would be it I think. I probably would have been fine with mine if so many of the diodes hadn't died and made them look so dim.

Danny
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Old 01-18-2016, 07:05 PM   #33
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OK, I'm good. I have cut and pasted that info in Amazon and when I clicked on it the 12v bulbs came up. I guess 3rd time's the charm...I got the 12-28v on my wish list now. Thanks!
All my interior lights are LED except 2 pendants over the island/sink and a light over the dinette. They are 1156 or 57 and I need to change them.
Good idea on the remote temp gauge. Thanks John.
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Old 01-18-2016, 07:17 PM   #34
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The 12v-28v 3528 bulbs is what I had purchased but I think I'll be ordering some of the brighter 5050 bulbs for over the stove and counter top. Might a couple for the reading lights over the couch too.
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Old 01-18-2016, 07:31 PM   #35
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If you go with the 5050 lights post back. I was thinking about those when I bought the others. They look like they would be brighter....I need all the help I can get to keep from chopping off my fingers when cutting stuff
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Old 01-18-2016, 11:34 PM   #36
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Note: When camping I am always attached to shore power and my two deep cell batteries are at the least 90% charged. Also by the time I am running my lights the converter has been charging my batteries and has not come on in the evening so I have seen no problem with the 12V LED's. However my two batteries test out at 12.5V to 12.6V, at 90% to 100% of full charge. The voltage actually at the light when running on shore power I have not tested, is it above 12V, if so, to date have seen no problems with the lights?
12.6v = 100% (Fully Charged)
12.5v = 90%
12.4v = 80%
12.3v = 70%
12.2v = 60%
12.1v = 50%
12.0v = 40%
11.9v = 30%
11.8v = 20%
11.7v = 10%
11.6v = 0% (Flat Battery)
Cut off voltage (DEAD BATTERY) = 10.5v
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:21 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by buzzcop63 View Post
Note: When camping I am always attached to shore power and my two deep cell batteries are at the least 90% charged. Also by the time I am running my lights the converter has been charging my batteries and has not come on in the evening so I have seen no problem with the 12V LED's. However my two batteries test out at 12.5V to 12.6V, at 90% to 100% of full charge. The voltage actually at the light when running on shore power I have not tested, is it above 12V, if so, to date have seen no problems with the lights?
12.6v = 100% (Fully Charged)
12.5v = 90%
12.4v = 80%
12.3v = 70%
12.2v = 60%
12.1v = 50%
12.0v = 40%
11.9v = 30%
11.8v = 20%
11.7v = 10%
11.6v = 0% (Flat Battery)
Cut off voltage (DEAD BATTERY) = 10.5v
You probably won't see any "issue" with the lights. If anything, there is possibly an increased operating temperature that may or may not even be noticeable. For my "12 VDC LED's" I've noticed nothing "out of the ordinary" except some slight flickering of individual LED's on the 48 LED panel during "bulk charge mode" (14.4 VDC). And even then, it's only one or maybe 2 individual LED's out of all of them. That's on about 30 panels, so 48x30 or only one or two out of 1400+ individual LED's that flicker. Otherwise, I see no "appreciable" difference in the 12 volt LED operation even at 14.4 VDC.

I believe your trailer has a WFCO 8955 converter installed (unless you've changed it out). The output of the converter is always above 13 VDC. The converter has 3 "modes of operation". 1) Bulk Charge - 14.4 VDC 2) Normal Mode - 13.6 VDC and 3) Trickle Charge - 13.2 VDC.

When you plug your converter into shore power, it comes on in the "normal mode. If the battery voltage is below 12.6 volts (this is my understanding from reading WFCO's tech papers, not a voltage I can confirm with WFCO engineers) the converter will go into Bulk Charge mode. It will remain there for a maximum of 4 hours (less if the battery voltage rises above 12.6 volts). The converter will then operate in the Normal Mode. It is stated in the WFCO FAQ's that to "check" whether the converter is in the Trickle Mode, to wait 44 hours and the system "should" drop to 13.2 VDC. It further states that any load on the system will cause the converter to revert to the Normal Mode of 13.6 VDC. Based on this information, I'd suspect that your trailer DC voltage is always at or above 13.6 VDC and the voltage you're reading is reflected by the voltage drop from the converter to the battery location. It's probably higher the closer you get to the actual converter location. Here is the question/answer from the FAQ:

"How do I get my converter into Float Trickle Mode?

Reduce load on the system to almost nothing but the battery. Let system sit for approx. 44 hours. The converter voltage will drop to 13.2V DC. If the converter sees any load during this period or after it is in Float mode it will revert back to Absorption (Normal) mode. 13.6V DC."


Based on this answer, it appears that if you "plug into shore power" and even so much as turn on a light, use the refrigerator, if the furnace fan comes on or if you turn on the stereo, you're probably not going to be able to enter "trickle mode" for almost 2 days (44 hours). If, even during storage of your RV, if you're plugged into shore power, if you use any DC power, a light, open the slide, close the slide, leave the furnace on low, or almost any other use of battery power (12 volt system) you'll switch to Normal Mode or delay the entry into Trickle Mode. It appears that Trickle Mode is only capable after the trailer "sits static with virtually no DC load" for a period of almost 2 days. Trickle Mode will essentially "work in storage" but not when "camping".....

Another of the questions concerns using AGM/GEL batteries. WFCO recommends not to use GEL batteries with their converters. It's interesting because I ruined a "high priced GEL battery" a few years ago by thinking I could use a conventional trickle charger over the winter.

There is a lot of good information about types of batteries, connecting multiple batteries, priority of use (management) for DC energy, troubleshooting, and general explanations for use/maintenance of WFCO converters. It's good reading for a winter day. You can read all the FAQ's here: http://wfcoelectronics.com/faq/
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:51 AM   #38
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The 12v-28v 3528 bulbs is what I had purchased but I think I'll be ordering some of the brighter 5050 bulbs for over the stove and counter top. Might a couple for the reading lights over the couch too.
This
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Old 01-19-2016, 10:34 AM   #39
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Great information, have made a copy to use for my reference. My Converter is a WFCO Ultra 3, WF-8900 Series so I think your data is spot on. As we set up our trailer generally between 1 and 3 in the afternoon and run out the slide, awning and the refrigerator switches over to electric then the converter would be running at or above 13.6 VDC. As the lights will not be turned on until the evening during the summer the 4 hours bulk charge should be over, given the battery charge might have been below 12.6V. By the time the lights are turned on the charge should be at the Normal mode. For those readers with concerns, my one season with these lights has turned up no problems.
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Old 03-06-2016, 09:49 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by cjelliott81 View Post
I have this style light in my camper (Sprinter 320BHS)



From the first time I used my camper, I was amazed by the amount of heat that these things put off, especially when you may have 5 or so of them going at one time. This concern was further raised when I had the first bulb burn out and noticed the socket it plugs in to was actually discolored and a bit deformed from the heat.

I began replacing them with LED by attrition to avoid buying nearly $200 in bulbs in one shot. However after this weekend in which I had one get so hot the switch failed and could not be turned off, i'm biting the bullet.

Has anyone had a similar experience? The fact the bulbs get so hot, to the point it is damaging the fixture, really strikes me as a safety concern.
We have a 320bhs also! Love it! I was wondering if you replaced the bulbs in the light over the dinette and the recessed lights over the sofa yet. If so, which bulbs do they use? I haven't tried removing the light covers to look yet. Thanks!

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