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Old 08-29-2021, 05:28 AM   #1
turbojimmy
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Water from under toilet when using black tank flush (and other questions)

Hi all -

I was checking out the plumbing on my new-to-me Bullet yesterday. I hooked up both the city water supply and used the fresh water tank. It went reasonably well. I even took a nice shower (the shower on my previous "vintage" motorhome was ridiculously small to the point where it was basically unusable for an average sized adult).

The black tank shows 1/3 full all the time. I know the gauges aren't very reliable, and that if there's something stuck to the sensor it can cause it to not read properly. So I thought I'd try the black tank flush. I've never had one before.

I read the instructions, watched some videos, etc. I left the black tank valve open, gray closed and turned on the flush. I was expecting kind of a steady flushing sound from what I assume is some sort of fixed spray head in the tank. But it kind of sounded like a dishwasher like there was a rotating spray. Anyway, after less than a minute I saw water running from under the toilet. Not like a flood, but I knew water shouldn't be coming out there so I shut it off. I checked the toilet flange bolts and the right one was pretty loose and also wet. I think that was the source. Has anyone else had this issue? I read about anti-siphon valves leaking but this was definitely from the base of the toilet (and no the black tank was not full - valve was open). Now I'm thinking I should remove the toilet to let it dry properly so the floor doesn't rot out. The flange studs are pretty rusty so I'm afraid this will snowball into a much larger project.

Second - the fresh water pump is crazy loud. It's not the pump itself but the fact that it's bolted directly to the floor with no vibration insulation nor sound deadening in the compartment (which is pretty much under the bed). In my case it's at the front of the trailer and I can feel it in the floor standing in the bathroom in the rear. Has anyone done anything to quiet theirs down? A lot of my camping is dry camping and the noise from this pump in the middle of the night is not going to be fun.

Last is that the gooseneck for the kitchen sink is shot. The owner tried to fix it by wrapping the base in about 300 feet of teflon tape but that didn't work. It actually looks like something is missing because there's no way it would have sealed the way it is now. Plus he boogered up the base by putting channel locks on the fitting trying to get it to stop leaking. The fixture is cheap enough so I ordered a new one.
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Old 08-29-2021, 05:56 AM   #2
NH_Bulldog
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I would pull the toilet, check the foam seal and also very carefully check the flange itself. I had similar issues and found a broken flange. By the time I discovered it my floor was mush and I had to completely remove and refabricate my bathroom floor.
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Old 08-29-2021, 06:11 AM   #3
turbojimmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog View Post
I would pull the toilet, check the foam seal and also very carefully check the flange itself. I had similar issues and found a broken flange. By the time I discovered it my floor was mush and I had to completely remove and refabricate my bathroom floor.
Thanks! I guess I know what I'll be doing today...
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Old 08-29-2021, 07:26 AM   #4
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The water pump is going to vibrate. There's not much you can do about that. You can, however, "quieten the vibrations"...

First, isolate the pump from the PEX tubing by using a "silencer kit" which is nothing more than two pieces of flexible (white CAMCO) water hose. Install those pieces of hose on the pump inlet and outlet. That will reduce the vibrations that are carried to the PEX.

Next, isolate the PEX where it passes through a solid wall or floor opening. PEX laying against the side of a cutout in the floor will vibrate and make the entire floor surface a "drum" that enhances the noise.... I used the "foam pipe insulation" from Lowe's. It comes in 8' lengths for around $2 a piece. I bought 5, I think, and had some left over after putting it on most of the PEX tubing in the cabinets and where it goes under the floor. I have not removed the Coroplast to do anything "under the trailer"...

Lastly, as you said, the pump is screwed to the floor with no insulation or vibrations damping to quieten it.

What I did was build a "vibration pad" made from two pieces of 1/4" plywood (scraps from the workshop) and glued them to a piece of foam matting (the foam stuff that sits in front of most work benches these days)... Then I mounted the pump to the top plywood pad and screwed the bottom pad to the floor of the trailer. That effectively "isolates the pump" from the floor and reduces the "drum effect".

Here's a drawing of what I made. It helps a lot, but I can still hear the pump when the trailer is quiet...

Honestly, to me, hearing the pump is a tremendous troubleshooting help. If, in the middle of the night, I hear the pump and nobody is using water, I know I have a leak somewhere... Time to find it and fix it... If I don't hear the pump cycle on/off through the night, I know the water system is intact and I don't need to worry about keeping a closer eye on the system, it's not leaking..... So, there's good and bad about "hearing the pump"....

Here's that diagram:
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Old 08-29-2021, 07:51 AM   #5
turbojimmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
The water pump is going to vibrate. There's not much you can do about that. You can, however, "quieten the vibrations"...

First, isolate the pump from the PEX tubing by using a "silencer kit" which is nothing more than two pieces of flexible (white CAMCO) water hose. Install those pieces of hose on the pump inlet and outlet. That will reduce the vibrations that are carried to the PEX.

Next, isolate the PEX where it passes through a solid wall or floor opening. PEX laying against the side of a cutout in the floor will vibrate and make the entire floor surface a "drum" that enhances the noise.... I used the "foam pipe insulation" from Lowe's. It comes in 8' lengths for around $2 a piece. I bought 5, I think, and had some left over after putting it on most of the PEX tubing in the cabinets and where it goes under the floor. I have not removed the Coroplast to do anything "under the trailer"...

Lastly, as you said, the pump is screwed to the floor with no insulation or vibrations damping to quieten it.

What I did was build a "vibration pad" made from two pieces of 1/4" plywood (scraps from the workshop) and glued them to a piece of foam matting (the foam stuff that sits in front of most work benches these days)... Then I mounted the pump to the top plywood pad and screwed the bottom pad to the floor of the trailer. That effectively "isolates the pump" from the floor and reduces the "drum effect".

Here's a drawing of what I made. It helps a lot, but I can still hear the pump when the trailer is quiet...

Honestly, to me, hearing the pump is a tremendous troubleshooting help. If, in the middle of the night, I hear the pump and nobody is using water, I know I have a leak somewhere... Time to find it and fix it... If I don't hear the pump cycle on/off through the night, I know the water system is intact and I don't need to worry about keeping a closer eye on the system, it's not leaking..... So, there's good and bad about "hearing the pump"....

Here's that diagram:
That's great! I'm definitely going to make a mount like that.

I can see the pex lines touching the cabinet walls so that's probably a big part of the noise transmission. I'll work on that as well.

The toilet flange is fine and the floor isn't damaged underneath. I guess the flange bolt just needed snugged up a bit.
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Old 08-30-2021, 10:51 AM   #6
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Another thing that can cause noise when running the water pump is air in any of the lines. Air will compress more easily that water so as the pump goes through it's motions, the lines act like a jack hammer.

With the pump on, just run each faucet (including toilet, shower, outside shower/kitchen, etc.) until you get a good air-free steady stream of water.
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Old 09-02-2021, 05:56 PM   #7
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You can replace the faucet with any you like. Doesn't have to be the cheap RV faucets.
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Old 09-10-2021, 09:42 AM   #8
turbojimmy
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I got this one. It's a cheap RV faucet but a bit nicer than the original.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004L38AL8/
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Old 09-12-2021, 11:51 AM   #9
Pyker
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I’d keep a close eye on that toilet issue. A friend of mine has a Bullet and his black tank flush had a bad connection and it sprayed water all over the underneath of the floor every time he used it. Wound up having to send it back to keystone where they has to replace the entire floor.
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Old 09-19-2021, 08:54 AM   #10
turbojimmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyker View Post
I’d keep a close eye on that toilet issue. A friend of mine has a Bullet and his black tank flush had a bad connection and it sprayed water all over the underneath of the floor every time he used it. Wound up having to send it back to keystone where they has to replace the entire floor.
It hasn't leaked since I reinstalled the toilet but I'll definitely keep an eye on it.

In other news, I bought a swivel stick to clean the tank. Now the sensor reads properly.
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