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Old 10-07-2015, 09:32 AM   #1
slow
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Seeking Insights and Advice on Floor Water Damage

While preparing our 2015 Passport 23RB for winter storage, I noticed that the underside of the floor above the curb side wheels between the frame and the skirting was "wavy". Feeling by hand through the tarp like material, it feels like the bottom wood layer of the floor has been exposed to water.

I plan to slit open the cover and take a closer look at the damage and to aid it drying out, but at this point I want to focus on checking the potential access points of the water so I can limit further damage. Note that there is no visible damage to the interior or exterior of the wall in the vicinity, nor is there any evidence of water damage to the top wood layer of the wood-foam-wood floor sandwich.

Please share your thoughts as to which areas I should focus my search for the water leak entry path.

The areas that come to mind are:
* an opening in the tarp like material on the underside of the trailer (no obvious openings were visible other than fastener entry points)
* an opening where the hot water tank is sealed to the exterior wall
* a leaking window seal
* a leaking awning rail
* a leaking outside speaker

Also, if anyone knows, how is the tarp like material on the underside of the floor finished off and sealed on the side of the trailer where it meets up with the skirting? The reason I ask is that we recently returned from a 7000 mile trip over three weeks with heavy rain during the first two weeks of towing. I now wonder if the tarp like material on the bottom is sealed at the edge properly. If not, could the water been splashed up during our extended tows in the heavy rain?

Thanks in advance for your insights.
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Old 10-07-2015, 03:44 PM   #2
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Upon further inspection, the damage is on both sides of the trailer starting just in front of the wheels to the rear of the trailer. Also reinspection of all interior and exterior walls and the top of the floor once again show no evidence of water damage, leaks or entry. Therefore I have concluded that the tarp like material that is to protect the underside of the floor between the frame and the skirt was not terminated and sealed properly when manufactured.

Or have I missed a potential other cause?

BTW: I made short slits in the tarp like material in the areas with damage to aid drying while I wait for a response from my dealer since I am out of warranty by just over 2 months.

Fingers crossed.
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Old 10-07-2015, 07:39 PM   #3
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The waterproof fabric used on RV's is called DARCO. It is a "tarp like" plastic reinforced with nylon webbing (similar to the blue plastic tarps). When your trailer was being assembled, the frame/chassis was rolled in, the DARCO was laid over the chassis rails, floor joists, heat ducts, plumbing and tanks were positioned, then the flooring (sandwiched luan/rigid foam/luan) was laid on top of the floor joists and secured to the frame rails/outriggers. Then the DARCO was folded over the flooring and stapled to the top of the flooring. Next the large components were installed on the floor and finally the side walls were installed and secured to the floor.

If (sometimes a supposition) the assembly was done properly, the DARCO would be sealed across the entire bottom of the trailer to include the sides of the floor "sandwich". However, any access holes would "void" that waterproof seal.....

There is an "approved/recommended" repair tape available from the manufacturers of DARCO, but I'd suspect that as many RV repairmen use Gorilla Tape as the "approved tape".....

You can find some diagrams depicting the construction components in some of the Keystone brochures found on the company website in the "brochure archives" section.

As for damage, if you're still in warranty, I'd urge you to contact your dealership, if you're out of warranty, depending on what you find, possibly resealing the DARCO to prevent further water intrusion (after it has dried) may be all you need to do. Any pictures ???
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Old 10-08-2015, 02:59 AM   #4
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Thanks for the well wishes for a good outcome and insights on the construction.

I had come to the same conclusion on the design details based on my prior review of the literature, but I do appreciate the confirmation. One thing that is puzzling to me though is: what are the odds of poor assembly on both sides of the trailer? Is it possible that the Darco is not 100% impervious to water?

As for working with the dealer, I initiated contact prior to my forum post, explaining my observations and seeking support although I am two months out of the Keystone warranty. It has only been a day, so it understandable why the dealer has not followed up with me yet as to what the next steps will be.

As for pictures, those that I have taken do not show the damage very well, so I need to try again, possibly altering the lighting to enhance the waviness in the images and how the floor surface has "dropped" around the cantilevered supports. I understand it will be important to get representative images to aid the support request from Keystone.

The reality is that it is very obvious by feel. The deformation of the underside of the floor at the supports cantilevered off the frame to the outside of the wall may be the only area that will show up in a photo.

Unfortunately, I suspect a repair beyond drying and taping will be required since the floor is no longer adequately supported by the cantilevered support arms.

Thanks again for the insights.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow View Post
Thanks for the well wishes for a good outcome and insights on the construction.

... what are the odds of poor assembly on both sides of the trailer? Is it possible that the Darco is not 100% impervious to water?

...and how the floor surface has "dropped" around the cantilevered supports.

...The reality is that it is very obvious by feel. The deformation of the underside of the floor at the supports cantilevered off the frame to the outside of the wall may be the only area that will show up in a photo.

Unfortunately, I suspect a repair beyond drying and taping will be required since the floor is no longer adequately supported by the cantilevered support arms.

Thanks again for the insights.
To address some of your comments:
It is very possible that the same "damage" or "building technique" is present on both sides of your RV. I'd suspect that one worker attached the DARCO around the entire perimeter, starting at the front and working around, or starting at the back and doing the same. So, it's likely that it's attached the same on both sides.

DARCO is waterproof. It's essentially a sheet of nylon fibers "sandwiched" between 2 sheets of polyethelene, so it's not going to allow water penetration. However, any staples, screws, slits, holes that were made during assembly of your RV will void that waterproof layer, so depending on where/what was done, there may be significant damage to the DARCO... Only a visual inspection would reveal that damage.

You describe "the floor surface has "dropped" around the cantilevered supports". That may be "normal" depending on the installation. The floor "sandwich" is placed on top of the outriggers, the walls are then placed on top of the floor and then screwed through the sidewall baseplate, through the floor and into the outrigger. These screws are tightened to align (straighten) the sidewall/floor joint. If the screws were tightened "too much" during this "alignment/straightening process" to cause the floor to "squeeze between the outrigger and the sidewall baseplate, it could have pushed the bottom layer of luan "around the outrigger" crushing some of the foam insulation. (I hope this makes sense the way I described it). That could have cracked or deformed the bottom luan, inside the DARCO, without causing any "water intrusion" or "water damage" and give the appearance of a "deformed bottom of the sandwich"... ???? That's why pictures depicting what you've got are important.

The "obvious by feel" is what led me to think it's possibly a "crush type damage" to the sandwiched floor and maybe not water damage. If it's a "crush type" situation, although it's not "correct" it probably won't cause any issues, but if it's a "crush type" situation with damaged DARCO and water intrusion, then that's another issue.

Hopefully your dealer will be able to determine which it is with a quick "look-see"... Here's hoping it's not as significant as you fear.

Good Luck and keep us posted.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:54 AM   #6
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Hi John,

I always appreciate your insights and wisdom in your responses.

Your points about deformation around the outriggers makes sense and may very well be from over torqueing of the compliant floor foam core sandwich. I will take a closer look and new pictures after work.

The dealer (salesman) has responded and indicated that I should expect a call from the service manager.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:49 PM   #7
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I took a few more pictures and placed the best three in the following album: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/album.php?albumid=727

Also, the dealer service department directed me to Keystone to beg for goodwill.
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Old 10-09-2015, 03:07 AM   #8
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My current thoughts on how to move forward and continue to enjoy a trailer we absolutely love to travel with:

* The odds are against Keystone providing any support beyond what I am capable of doing myself in terms of repairs whether in or out of warranty. It is unreasonable to expect them to do anything other than closing up any potential leak paths after the underside of the floor has fully dried. So any fix, no matter who does it, is best done next spring, not now.

* With our long cold dry winters and indoor storage, the underside will certainly dry out very well if I leave the slits I made in the Darco material uncovered while the TT is in winter storage. I will make a few more slits just to be sure all affected areas dry.

* Next spring, I can review the condition of the underside of the floor, and expecting that it will look reasonable from a structural perspective, I will tape up the slits in the Darco. I will also apply sealant (type TBD?) on the fastener heads that attach the floor to the side walls since there is some evidence that there may be very small tears around some of the fasteners upon closer inspection. With the amount of rain we experienced while traveling 8+ hour days over 5+ days to get to the east coast, water being sprayed up for that length of time and penetrating even a small access point could add up to a significant amount of water.

* Odds are that the damage will only be cosmetic since I noticed the issue soon after the water penetrated the area. In the remote chance that I have any concerns next spring from a structural perspective, I will implement a fix to address those concerns.

* I will monitor the floor next summer, and if there is any evidence that water is still somehow accessing the underside of the floor, I will remove the skirts and examine for water penetration points and address any that still exist.

Thanks again John for you insights and wisdom. And if you have any thoughts on my plan to move forward, or a recommendation on what sealant to use on the Darco and fasteners, that would also be appreciated.

I will update this post next spring.
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Reese 5th Airborne (bagged) Pin Box
RoadMaster Shock Kit
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:30 PM   #9
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An Update:

Thoroughly inspected the underside of the TT to identify how the water was penetrating the membrane. Other than a few tears near the sidewall mounting screw on the underside of the TT, no obvious entry points.

Last fall I cut some slits to allow the bottom of the floor to dry out over the winter. Yesterday, I wiped down the membrane (Darco material) with isopropyl alcohol and then applied a 6 inch wide tape called FlexMend.





I also caulked around all the side wall mount screws and the skirt mounting screws that penetrated the membrane.

Hopefully this is now behind us and we do not have a recurrence.
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RoadMaster Shock Kit
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