There have been several discussion threads about Faded front caps on various rigs. I have a 2014 Terrain by Outback that the front cap was fading right at the top where the roof seam meets the front and was working its way down. I worked with Keystone and they were very accomodating. They took complete responsibility and now my rig is getting the front cap sanded, repainted and clearcoated. I wash and wax this rig twice a year just as an FYI.
Keystone knows this is an issue with several models of rigs. They are easy to work with.
Same here .
Purchased my 2014 cougar in October of 2013 .
May 2015 my RV suffered Hail damage .
While in for insurance repairs our dealer took photos of our Fading Front cap & sent to Keystone .
Although unit was 8 months past warranty Expiration Keystone agreed to pay 1500.00 dollars of a 2200.00 repair .
Out of warranty they really didn't have to do anything but KUDO'S to Keystone for stepping up to the plate.
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2021 Montana High Country 295RL
2015 6.4 Hemi Ram 2500
They seem to be selective on who they will help. I noticed mine starting to fade at about 22 months after I took delivery. I didn't contact Keystone immediately because we were using our 5th wheel almost every week and it wasn't very noticeable at the time. It is now fading quite rapidly.
I decided to contact my dealer a couple of weeks ago. They told me it was a known problem and they thought Keystone would likely cover it. My dealer asked me to send pictures for them to forward to Keystone. A few days ago I got a call from my dealer saying the claim was denied. I called Keystone directly and was told I'm outside the warranty period therefore it wouldn't be covered. They suggested I purchase a product to remove the oxidation.
I now have a 2 year old 5th wheel that looks much older. I was hoping for an outcome like yours. I know they have warrantied trailers that were built before ours but for some reason ours was rejected. I haven't given up hope. I sent an email to Keystone and my dealer expressing my disappointment.
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2017 Passport Elite 19RB
2019 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
2017 Ford F350 Lariat 4X4 CC 6.7
There have been several discussion threads about Faded front caps on various rigs. I have a 2014 Terrain by Outback that the front cap was fading right at the top where the roof seam meets the front and was working its way down. I worked with Keystone and they were very accomodating. They took complete responsibility and now my rig is getting the front cap sanded, repainted and clearcoated. I wash and wax this rig twice a year just as an FYI.
Keystone knows this is an issue with several models of rigs. They are easy to work with.
How far out of warranty were you? or were you out at all?
The report are so mixed on getting help for the caps that I wonder if there are simply different people in place or if policy is shifting. I'd be nice to see how the dealers ask (for the ones that get approved).
I know this thread is old but I wondered that also. Do they look after some customers or dealers better than others?
Maybe I should start a thread asking if Keystone covered this outside of warranty. If so how long after the warranty expired.
I mentioned to the Keystone rep that I knew they covered some out of warranty. They didn't deny it.
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2017 Passport Elite 19RB
2019 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
2017 Ford F350 Lariat 4X4 CC 6.7
The report are so mixed on getting help for the caps that I wonder if there are simply different people in place or if policy is shifting. I'd be nice to see how the dealers ask (for the ones that get approved).
Thanks for reporting good after-warranty support!
Quote:
Originally Posted by grampscamper
I know this thread is old but I wondered that also. Do they look after some customers or dealers better than others?
Maybe I should start a thread asking if Keystone covered this outside of warranty. If so how long after the warranty expired.
I mentioned to the Keystone rep that I knew they covered some out of warranty. They didn't deny it.
I think you'll find that the successful warranty claim (vs the unsuccessful claim)starts, is managed and ends with the dealership and how they present the claim to Keystone. Believe it or not, there's not an "office of denial" at Keystone that refuses warranty work for people whose "screen name starts with G" or "who live in zip codes starting with odd numbers" or with any other "magic formula"..... From all indications I got when I have been at the factory and discussing issues with the supervisors on the floor (brand managers) and with the customer service reps in the CS office (yes there is even a sign out front), it all starts with how well the dealership documents the problem and how it is presented to the factory.
If the dealership presents a clear case indicating that the owner has performed required maintenance, the cap is fading, how it's fading, any other issues or indications of problems with the cap, what they have done previously and the results of those attempts at repair, include pictures and any other documentation that might help "establish" the the problem is a defective cap color, there's a strong chance that Keystone will consider the repair under an extended warranty. The "key" from what I've learned, is that the documentation trail has to establish that there was a problem "DURING THE WARRANTY TIME AND THE CUSTOMER HAS DONE HIS PART"....
On the other hand, a dealer who sends the following to Keystone will certainly face a denial: "Customer requests front cap repaint because of faded color. RV is out of warranty."....
Would you approve such a request?
The "common thread" in every approval I've seen is "dealer documentation"... The "common thread" I've seen in almost all disapprovals is: "I called Keystone and they said no," or "My dealer told me that Keystone wouldn't approve the repair".... It's not just the faded cap issue, but nearly every "out of the ordinary" repair request.....
See what your dealer actually sent to Keystone and I think you'll find where the "disapproval started"...............
As I said, there IS a real customer service department at Keystone, here's proof that it exists:
Here's an added thought: Most dealerships don't have a paint shop, so they either farm out the work or pay someone to come in to do the work and then get reimbursement from Keystone. If the dealership doesn't have a paint shop, and they are going to have to pay for the repair at "prevailing rates" and Keystone only will reimburse up to a specific amount (usually below the prevailing rate), what "real incentive" does the dealership have in pushing the factory to repair something that they aren't going to make any money from the repair? If the dealership isn't "customer satisfaction focused" and isn't "in it to keep you happy" then why would he want to spend money (work at a loss) and spend manhours (more money) to properly document the problem for your repair, knowing that when you bring it in, he's going to lose even more money? I'm not accusing any specific dealership of any "wrong-doing" but I can see where after losing several hundred dollars on an out of warranty paint job last month, many dealerships simply won't "jump in with both feet" on the next one through the door....... Sure, that leaves you, the customer, holding the bag so to speak, but you can't blame Keystone for "refusing to stand by their product" in those types of situations either..... In almost all situations, it hinges on how the dealer starts and manages the claim............
John I understand what you're saying. I know Keystone has to set limits on warranty claims but I believe I'm justified in my expectations.
Would it be reasonable to expect the paint to fade within 2 years? I know I slowed the process by applying a paint sealer and wax on my trailer. My dealer told me there was an issue during the warranty period but my cap didn't show any signs of fading.
If my vehicle faded this badly in two years I would expect Ford to paint my truck. I believe Keystone or their supplier used a poor quality paint that resulted in this problem. In my opinion Keystone should come good for the repair.
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2017 Passport Elite 19RB
2019 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
2017 Ford F350 Lariat 4X4 CC 6.7
First of all, the fiberglass caps were not "painted" during the time of the "known problems", rather they had a molded in color additive which was added to the fiberglass mold during the molding process. That color additive was either "not the right type", "not added in sufficient quantity" or "defective" (these are my reasons, not the factory's explanation of what is happening).
Honestly, it isn't a "all are fading" issue, it's not even a "over half are fading issue". So, why or how the factory comes to the conclusion of who to approve and who doesn't get approved has to come down to the documentation they receive. Essentially, they have a "checklist" type approval process. When they receive a claim, they fill out a form, check the "mandatory blocks" below the VIN and submit it to the warranty claims manager for approval. If they can't fill out all the "mandatory blocks" they can't submit it for approval. It's simply UP TO THE DEALER to know which "mandatory blocks" are required and to submit documentation to support those requirements.
That's why so many owners who try to "run interference" (I call it "get in the way interference" ) wind up creating what I call "negative reputations" with Keystone. They call, demanding results, pushing the buttons of patience with the people who are "trying to help them" and wind up making things much worse than they should be.
Honestly, if you don't already know "EXACTLY" what the dealership submitted to Keystone and you "call to complain" all you're going to do is test the patience of someone who doesn't know you and whose hands are tied as you waste your time and theirs.
If you're intent on getting approval to paint your front cap, then you need to work very closely with your dealership, find out what they have submitted, what correspondence has come back from Keystone and what needs to be done next. How do you find out what's next? First of all, educate yourself with the many comments on this forum from successful owners. Also educate yourself on the comments from owners who have failed. Develop the knowledge of what has worked, what didn't work, what your dealership has told Keystone and what Keystone has told them.
Honestly, expressing personal frustrations or complaining on this forum (and to my knowledge on any other forum) isn't going to help. Keystone doesn't monitor this or any other forum, so they won't be in a position to know your frustrations from your posts here. If you are intent on getting results, study the information available, become an expert on what causes the fading problems, your responsibilities and your dealer's responsibility. Know what's next and "guide your own solution" through the dealership.
Those people who have "excellent results" with maintenance performed by their dealer also have "excellent relationships" with their dealer. They have discussed their situation with their dealer, he knows what they expect, they know what to expect from the dealer and there is a "working relationship" not a "drop it off with a list to fix" relationship. One or two owners have posted the "growing pains" of how they came to understand their dealer's requirements and also the pains they encountered in building that relationship. It's not like an auto dealer, it's an entirely different animal.... Should it be? That's not even a consideration, it's not the same and you've got to live within the "rules of engagement" if you expect to get anything done.
First, do a forum search for "FADE", "FADING", "PAINT" and "WARRANTY". Spend some time getting a good working knowledge of the system based on the experience others have posted (not what some service tech promised you) and learn how to best present your problem to the dealer with all the information he needs to present it to Keystone and "FILL IN THE MANDATORY BLOCKS". If you don't do that, it's a "crap shoot" as to whether Keystone will ever approve your "out of warranty work".....
Don't blame Keystone, blame your dealer and how he presents the issue to the factory. THEN, if after you have seen what he presented, seen what Keystone refused and seen the rebuttal and disapproval, ONLY THEN, blame "that bad old Keystone".... Until then, if you and the dealer haven't done your homework, the problem very well is sitting in your own "front yard".....
Frustrating? YUP !!! but it's the way the RV industry works. And, it's not just Keystone. EVERY RV manufacturer excludes "cosmetic defects" from their warranty. Faded end caps is "cosmetic".......
First of all, the fiberglass caps were not "painted" during the time of the "known problems", rather they had a molded in color additive which was added to the fiberglass mold during the molding process. That color additive was either "not the right type", "not added in sufficient quantity" or "defective" (these are my reasons, not the factory's explanation of what is happening).
That where the conversation ends right there. You are absolutely right. There is a problem in the manufacturing/finishing process of the front caps. With Keystone covering anyone in or out of warranty confirms this. The customer or dealer does not have to prove a thing besides providing a picture of another faded front cap. Keystone swallows hard and says" Dang...there is another one. Approve the repair or cut a check"
But no....at first they play along like there is no problem. They have never heard of thus before, its all the customers fault. You didn't wash it, you didn't wax it, you didn't take it in for the bi-annual cap inspection. Its a game with no clear cut rules. Who gets approved and denied makes no sense. Maybe the ones that get approved are the ones they made the most money on during the sales process? Who knows what their reasoning is, but its certainly not above board.
Its a very obvious problem and a very simple solution. It should not take a dealer to go to bat for me and have to fight with Keystone to do the right thing. I should be receiving a letter in the mail from keystone letting me know they are aware of the problem of fading from caps on certain years of their products and how they plan on addressing this problem with either repaints or checks. They would probably go bankrupt if they did that. You ought to drive through my RV storage facility and see the Montana's, Outbacks, Cougars, and Fuzions with the front caps fading away. One guy has already put a wrap on the front of his 2 year old Montana. Another $1600 out of his pocket for a problem that was not of his making because Keystone denied his claim.
That where the conversation ends right there. You are absolutely right. There is a problem in the manufacturing/finishing process of the front caps. With Keystone covering anyone in or out of warranty confirms this. The customer or dealer does not have to prove a thing besides providing a picture of another faded front cap. Keystone swallows hard and says" Dang...there is another one. Approve the repair or cut a check"
But no....at first they play along like there is no problem. They have never heard of thus before, its all the customers fault. You didn't wash it, you didn't wax it, you didn't take it in for the bi-annual cap inspection. Its a game with no clear cut rules. Who gets approved and denied makes no sense. Maybe the ones that get approved are the ones they made the most money on during the sales process? Who knows what their reasoning is, but its certainly not above board.
Its a very obvious problem and a very simple solution. It should not take a dealer to go to bat for me and have to fight with Keystone to do the right thing. I should be receiving a letter in the mail from keystone letting me know they are aware of the problem of fading from caps on certain years of their products and how they plan on addressing this problem with either repaints or checks. They would probably go bankrupt if they did that. You ought to drive through my RV storage facility and see the Montana's, Outbacks, Cougars, and Fuzions with the front caps fading away. One guy has already put a wrap on the front of his 2 year old Montana. Another $1600 out of his pocket for a problem that was not of his making because Keystone denied his claim.
Shame on you Keystone!
Look, all I'm saying is that it's a problem, but EVERY RV manufacturer has this issue, not just Keystone. You, me, the ENTIRE forum membership can sit around here, complaining, projecting what "ought to happen" and getting our "nickers in a wringer" till the cows come home. It won't help your situation at all.
If YOU want to work toward a SUCCESSFUL resolution, it won't happen by proselytizing on this or any other forum. You've simply got to accept that "THIS IS THE WAY THINGS ARE" and become active with your dealership to make a change in YOUR rv situation. You can't change Keystone's management philosophy nor can you force them to do anything they don't want to do by badmouthing their policies on any internet site. You can, however, persuade your dealer to "run interference" to help your case.
Here's just a few of the "competition" so you know it's "not Keystone" but every manufaccturer all the way up to half million dollar motorhomes and $150K luxury trailers. But I'm sure you already knew that, it just didn't fit your agenda in today's post.
Saying, "Shame on you Keystone" won't fix a thing, it might make you "feel good" in some minute way, but in reality, it's wasted breath.
Look, all I'm saying is that it's a problem, but EVERY RV manufacturer has this issue, not just Keystone. You, me, the ENTIRE forum membership can sit around here, complaining, projecting what "ought to happen" and getting our "nickers in a wringer" till the cows come home. It won't help your situation at all.
If YOU want to work toward a SUCCESSFUL resolution, it won't happen by proselytizing on this or any other forum. You've simply got to accept that "THIS IS THE WAY THINGS ARE" and become active with your dealership to make a change in YOUR rv situation. You can't change Keystone's management philosophy nor can you force them to do anything they don't want to do by badmouthing their policies on any internet site. You can, however, persuade your dealer to "run interference" to help your case.
Here's just a few of the "competition" so you know it's "not Keystone" but every manufaccturer all the way up to half million dollar motorhomes and $150K luxury trailers. But I'm sure you already knew that, it just didn't fit your agenda in today's post.
Saying, "Shame on you Keystone" won't fix a thing, it might make you "feel good" in some minute way, but in reality, it's wasted breath.
Its ok if you are a Keystone fanboy. Or maybe you work in the front office for them. This problem does cross other brands. Even the Voltage in my storage yard is starting to fade. The problem is I don't own another brand...I own a Keystone. Is keystone going to hold their cap supplier responsible or are they going to turn the other cheek and make it my problem and others. For some of us they have made the decision.
You sure like to chime in on the faded cap posts and tell people thats they way it is and they just have to accept it. Good for you that you don't have a trailer that is affected. If you don't like to hear my "wasted breath" opinion you can always move on to another topic that you might have a dog in the fight.
I want to close my side of this conversation by saying I don't get any comfort in knowing other brands are having issues with faded caps. I think it would be wonderful if we didn't have any issues at all regardless of make. In my opinion I don't believe my situation is being handled fairly. I'm not sure if it's the dealers fault or Keystone. All I know is I'm doing "battle" on an issue I don't feel I should have to.
These are my personal opinions only and I don't want to offend anyone here. I'm the customer and I make the decision on my next purchase. If I don't feel like I've been treated fairly I have the option to move on to another dealer or manufacturer when it's time to upgrade.
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2017 Passport Elite 19RB
2019 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
2017 Ford F350 Lariat 4X4 CC 6.7
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