Outback Ultralight 240 URS

[nfortierc514]

Newbie here,

We have a 2022 F150 3.5 L powerboost hybrid truck with a GCWR of 12 400 lbs.
I have read that you should use 80% of that which takes me to about 10 000 lbs.

Is it safe to pull at the max GCWR?

Is anyone pulling at a GCWR of 12 400 lbs with this exact truck that can give me feed back on the towing experience?

Thank you

Nathalie

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by nfortierc514

Newbie here,

We have a 2022 F150 3.5 L powerboost hybrid truck with a GCWR of 12 400 lbs.
I have read that you should use 80% of that which takes me to about 10 000 lbs.

Is it safe to pull at the max GCWR?

Is anyone pulling at a GCWR of 12 400 lbs with this exact truck that can give me feed back on the towing experience?

Thank you

Nathalie

Since the weight of your truck, passengers, hitch, etc. are NOT known, it might be easier for you to tell us what the payload is for your truck; located inside the driver door frame on a yellow/white placard. You can estimate the tongue weight of your camper at just under 1000 lbs, add passenger weight, hitch weight and stuff in the truck. This number can easily be compared to the truck's payload. You could well exceed payload with that half ton.

[sourdough]

You need to take ALL of the towing capacity limitations of your truck into consideration, not just one. GCVWR, GVWR, GAWR, PAYLOAD etc. - they're all listed inside your driver door and none can be exceeded. By the time you get to gcvwr in a 1/2 ton you will probably exceed your payload (occupant capacity), post that and then weights can be discussed more accurately.

[nfortierc514]

Unloaded trailer weight: 5600 lbs
Trailer contents weight - I estimate about 1200 lbs. We have 2 mountain bikes, clothes, dishes, food , small portable BBQ etc...
Cargo weight - people and gear about 500 lbs. ( excludes tongue weight )
Hitch weight 755 lbs from Keystone website
Max payload rating: 1300 lbs
GVWR: 7350 lbs
GCWR: 12 400 lbs
Front GAWR : 4000 lbs
Rear GAWR : 4150 lbs

I don't know the curb weight of the truck - I read you can estimate it with GVWR-payload so if that is correct 6050 lbs plus a full tank of gas - we don't have any other equipment on the truck.The tank is 30 gallons so 180 lbs of gas.

I have read that tongue weight is 10 to 15% of loaded trailer weight so anywhere between 120 lbs to 180 lbs.
Both trailer hitch weight and tongue weight are added to the total payload calculations?

Nathalie

[sourdough]

The 240URS is a 7700lb. gvwr trailer. It does have a 2100lb carrying capacity because it is a side load toyhauler (my term). You may or may not carry that much weight but with a toy hauler (who knows when you're going to drop an ATV in there) or any othe trailer, the best, and safest, option is to calculate using fully loaded weights. IMO you should never max out on weights and when you don't you leave yourself some safety margin vs living on the edge.

Back to those numbers; 7700lb. gvwr on the trailer using a standard 13% of gvwr for tongue weight = 1001lbs. for tongue weight. People and gear inside the truck 500 (your estimate) = 1601lbs. Weight for trailer hitch 100lbs (could go up to 120) = 1701lbs. Even if you back out the max gvwr of the trailer and just add your projected 1200lbs. for trailer load (that will be light if you actually use the trailer normally) = 6800 lbs. you only save 116lbs. off the 1001lbs. at gvwr.

As you can see, any way you slice it that truck can't safely tow that RV. A 1300lb. payload is very low for a 1/2 ton and that is due to it being a hybrid. Hybrids and EVs are made to get mileage not tow anything of any size. At least it's not a true EV....they can't tow themselves very far.

[NH_Bulldog]

First, a Honda Civic could pull that trailer, it really doesn’t take much effort to get a load moving forward. Stopping and control are a different story. I would suggest getting “towing capacity” out of your brain right now because it is largely irrelevant.

I towed our 240BH with an F150 3.5L Ecoboost and Max Tow package. I had a truck cargo capacity of 2,225 lbs. You can forget any factory tongue weight spec. Mine said 561 lbs and on a scale I was 925 lbs.

Here are my numbers for my F150 (I have an F250 now); 925 lbs tongue weight, 100 lb WD hitch weight, 100 lbs of bed cargo (bikes, firewood, tonneau cover, etc.), 2 adults, a 10 year old, 2 English Bulldogs and their travel kennel - 650 lbs. for a grand total of 1,775 lbs against a 2,225 lb limit. I was within a reasonable safety margin by the numbers, but the truck was a bear to control in anything but a light breeze. The trailer is a big sail catching even the slightest turbulence from passing cars, trucks, etc. It literally was a tail wagging the dog white knuckle experience. Upgrading to LRE tires, upgrading shocks, and adding Timbrens, only made a slight improvement.

I will say with certainty that you are over the carrying capacity of that truck, and that my friend is a dangerous situation to be in for you, your family and all the drivers around you on the roads. Imagine trying to control that whole setup if you had a tire blowout or had to make an evasive maneuver?

[nfortierc514]

Thank you so much for the answers to my questions.

Keystone states that the hitch weight is 755 lbs. Does that get added on to the trailer weight so in this case 5600 lbs ( empty trailer weight ) + 755 lbs ( hitch weight )? I am trying to figure out what truck I need to pull this thing....Yup, shopping as we speak...

Nathalie

[NH_Bulldog]

Published tongue weight is what they estimate it weighs right off the assembly line. Not a real-world number at all.

Take the travel trailer GVWR and multiply by .14 or .15 to get a reasonably close estimation of actual real-world tongue weight. For mine it was .14 that matched actual scaled weight. 7,000 lb trailer GVWR x .14 = 980 lbs tongue weight.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by nfortierc514

Thank you so much for the answers to my questions.

Keystone states that the hitch weight is 755 lbs. Does that get added on to the trailer weight so in this case 5600 lbs ( empty trailer weight ) + 755 lbs ( hitch weight )? I am trying to figure out what truck I need to pull this thing....Yup, shopping as we speak...

Nathalie

Nathalie the "hitch weight" referred to by Keystone is the approximate weight of the tongue of the trailer on the hitch ball on the truck hitch/receiver. Another item referred to as "hitch weight" is the weight distribution hitch you have to have to equalize the load when the RV is hooked to the truck. The weight distribution hitch should have built in sway control (4 point) as part of the hitch and not add on friction bars for best performance.

The hitch weight referenced by Keystone is meaningless. It is a number from the trailer as soon as it was built without some of the critical operational components - it will bear no resemblence to real life numbers.

Trying to figure out the proper truck to pull a particular truck just using numbers isn't really difficult. When you throw in all the subjective personal likes and dislikes of a prospective buyer it gets much more complicated. From the way your post sounds do you have the trailer and looking for a truck to pull it? If that's the case what kind of preferences do you have in a truck? My first thought would be that if you have a clean slate just get a 3/4 ton truck. You can pull a trailer with 1/2 ton truck and 1700lbs. of load but you're pushing the weight limits of the 1/2 ton and controllability (safety) will become a concern.

Post back with your thoughts, likes and wants for a truck and we can help.

[nfortierc514]

Well, we actually have a F150 Lariat hybrid but my husband is currently looking into a F250. We are both retired and will be travelling a fair amount so we really want to do this right. The trailer is the perfect trailer for us so going to a smaller one to accommodate the truck didn't make sense.

So I can disregard the hitch weight and just go with the .14 X loaded trailer weight as an approximation of the tongue weight?

Would you be able to recommend a weight distribution hitch? We were looking at Reese or Curt or Equalizer? And do you have a preference over the friction bar type vs the chain set up? Definitely getting sway bars as well.

Nathalie

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by nfortierc514

Well, we actually have a F150 Lariat hybrid but my husband is currently looking into a F250. We are both retired and will be travelling a fair amount so we really want to do this right. The trailer is the perfect trailer for us so going to a smaller one to accommodate the truck didn't make sense.

So I can disregard the hitch weight and just go with the .14 X loaded trailer weight as an approximation of the tongue weight?

Would you be able to recommend a weight distribution hitch? We were looking at Reese or Curt or Equalizer? And do you have a preference over the friction bar type vs the chain set up? Definitely getting sway bars as well.

Nathalie

You can’t go wrong with the Equalizer E4, weight distribution with built in sway control.

[NH_Bulldog]

I agree with the Equalizer E4. It is a tried and true reliable and capable WDH. As for truck, a 3/4 ton truck is enough to let you tow the model you are looking at safely snd reliably, while also giving you some room to grow if you decide a larger trailer or a 5th wheel is in your future.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by nfortierc514

Well, we actually have a F150 Lariat hybrid but my husband is currently looking into a F250. We are both retired and will be travelling a fair amount so we really want to do this right. The trailer is the perfect trailer for us so going to a smaller one to accommodate the truck didn't make sense.

So I can disregard the hitch weight and just go with the .14 X loaded trailer weight as an approximation of the tongue weight?

Would you be able to recommend a weight distribution hitch? We were looking at Reese or Curt or Equalizer? And do you have a preference over the friction bar type vs the chain set up? Definitely getting sway bars as well.

Nathalie

I responded with a fairly lengthy reply but guess between phone calls, puppy and LSU winning the national title (DS kept bugging me) I sent it into oblivion; I'll try again.


Since you've found the perfect trailer we need to find you the perfect tow vehicle. A properly equipped 1/2 ton "could" pull that trailer but never give you the safety cushion you need IMO. It would be a "get by" situation leaving you in a position of always looking for, or needing, something larger.

The 3/4 ton (250) would be my choice. Larger truck equals more control, more braking control etc. As to what to look for I would look for something with at least a 2500lb. payload. A gas 3/4 ton would get you around a 3000lb payload and a diesel 2500 +/-. You don't need a diesel to pull that size trailer by any means but they're there if that is what you want.

For hitch weight approximation you can go with .14 x the gvwr of the trailer IMO. You can use the "loaded" weight but you need to scale all the time to keep from overloading the tow vehicle if you go with a marginal one. Using the gvwr for calculations gives you a weight range for the truck that will cover however you load the trailer and hopefully give you some safety margin. My load changes on where I'm going and what I'm going to be doing, sometimes a few hundred pounds. A 3/4 will give you the latitude to do that, and to me the most important, you can take what you want vs having to pick and choose what to leave behind on a trip - btdt. If you are going to be traveling much at all the 3/4 will make driving/towing SO much more relaxing and comfortable.

As far as hitches I recommend the Equalizer 4 point. I had stellar success with it. There are other brands that folks seem to be happy with but from my readings on this and other forums the Equalizer seems to be the favorite.

I applaud you for wanting to do this right. Since you're retired and wanting to use the trailer I can tell you from experience that it's SO much nicer having the proper tow vehicle vs trying to make an overloaded one "work" - good for you.

[nfortierc514]

Wow, thank you so much for everyone’s input. It has been very helpful. We will be trading our F150 Lariat hybrid for a F250 Lariat - not sure whether we will go diesel or gas yet, depends on what is out there. The equalizer is on my shopping list as well. Looking forward to the first trip !

Nathalie

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by nfortierc514

Wow, thank you so much for everyone’s input. It has been very helpful. We will be trading our F150 Lariat hybrid for a F250 Lariat - not sure whether we will go diesel or gas yet, depends on what is out there. The equalizer is on my shopping list as well. Looking forward to the first trip !

Nathalie

If you consider a diesel you need to thoroughly, thoroughly investigate the pros and cons. Read objective, knowledgeable information from owners, and more importantly, past owners. Gas vs diesel in your tow vehicle isn't the same as choosing the displacement size, it's much, much more and entails costs you need to realize and understand. The trailer you have does not require one in any way so just keep that in mind.

[nfortierc514]

Thank you again will do!

[nfortierc514]

Me again, with more numbers.

We are currently shopping for a F250 diesel. The yellow sticker on the door jam tells me that " the combined weight of cargo and occupants should never exceed 1911 lbs ".

This is maximum payload am I correct?

I have re calculated my total expected payload in the following way.

Cargo weight 300 lbs
People weight 625 lbs
Trailer tongue weight 1100 lbs ( fully loaded trailer 7700 lbs )
Hitch weight 100 lbs
Fuel weight : 768 lbs ( 128 litre )
Total expected payload : 2893 lbs

This is above the maximum payload of 1911 lbs.

I find it hard to believe that 1911 lbs is all you can load on a big truck like that.

What am I missing?

The GVWR for the trucks we are looking at varries from 9900 lbs and 10 800 lbs and the GCWR from the ford website towing information ranges from 23 500 lbs to 30 000 lbs depending on the tow package and axel.

Thank you in advance

Nathalie

[NH_Bulldog]

It is mostly due to the diesel and all the other extras that come on the Lariat. I have a fully optioned F250 XLT crew cab with the 7.3L gas and panoramic moon roof and my cargo sticker reads 3,370 lbs. If you are fixed with wanting a diesel Lariat, you need to move up to an F350 to get some wiggle room.

I also suggest reviewing your fuel weight calculations. Diesel weighs right around 7 lbs per gallon, which means your 768 lbs of fuel comes out to almost 110 gallons of fuel…..and I thought my 34 gallon gas tank was big!

[wiredgeorge]

As noted, diesel engines weigh quite a bit more than gas and thus the payload is less. 4x4 trucks have a heavy transaxle and thus have less payload than 4x2. Lariat trim has more gee-gaws than an XL trim and thus less payload. In order to avoid payload worries, a on ton truck sells for about the same amount and a 1 ton with gas engine will have a LOT more payload. Handling and comfort are very similar and size is no different if the trucks are configured the same (crew cab/long wheel base for instance). If you do go 3/4 ton, keep looking for one with a payload that can accommodate the camper you intend on pulling.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by nfortierc514

Me again, with more numbers.

We are currently shopping for a F250 diesel. The yellow sticker on the door jam tells me that " the combined weight of cargo and occupants should never exceed 1911 lbs ".

This is maximum payload am I correct?

I have re calculated my total expected payload in the following way.

Cargo weight 300 lbs
People weight 625 lbs
Trailer tongue weight 1100 lbs ( fully loaded trailer 7700 lbs )
Hitch weight 100 lbs
Fuel weight : 768 lbs ( 128 litre )
Total expected payload : 2893 lbs

This is above the maximum payload of 1911 lbs.

I find it hard to believe that 1911 lbs is all you can load on a big truck like that.

What am I missing?

The GVWR for the trucks we are looking at varries from 9900 lbs and 10 800 lbs and the GCWR from the ford website towing information ranges from 23 500 lbs to 30 000 lbs depending on the tow package and axel.

Thank you in advance

Nathalie

A 1911 payload on a 3/4 ton, even if diesel, is low so you are looking at a pretty tricked out truck. Remember that all trucks are not the same even if they are a 3/4, 1/2, 1 ton etc. The trim level affects the weight of the truck thus the payload. Same goes for adding 4x4, side steps, bed covers, upgraded interiors etc....the list goes on and on.

If you have a 128 litre tank look at about 34 gals. of fuel x 7 lbs. = 238lbs. That still won't help you. The trailer you have doesn't require a diesel to pull it. Depending on where you live it could be very nice though. If you tow a lot in mountains, at high elevations etc. the diesel will give you some advantages. If you don't then you might consider a gas engine. Opting for a gas engine and lower trim level should get you into a 3/4 ton truck. If not you can look into a 1 ton. More capacity, very little more money, no difference in driving and the ride difference is literally unnoticeable. That's what I did and haven't regretted it one second.

You should be able to get a gas 3/4 ton truck with a 3k payload which would take care of you. A diesel will cut it close. A 1 ton in either configuration, in whatever trim level would do the job as well.