How is this possible?

[JRTJH]

Nor do I want to witness a young family (or even a couple of old, retired farts) get into their "dream of family vacations the kids will always remember" and wind up either broken down on the interstate a thousand miles from home with only a maxed out credit card and 3 "crying babies" and a wife that's stewing hotter and hotter.... Or worse, sitting alongside that interstate waiting for EMS to get there to assess the family.....

To "illustrate the dilemma in my previous post"

Imagine a trailer with a GVWR of 8000 pounds and an advertised tongue weight of 1000 pounds (using Cal's "full propane tanks in the equation). Put two 3500 pound axles under the trailer and it's "legal to sell to the public". 1000 + 7000 means the axles and tongue weight equal or are less than the GVWR.... Now, use one bottle of propane (30 pounds) and do the math again.... The axles are overloaded and the trailer is no longer "legal per those regs that keep getting quoted".... 970+7000=7970 which means the trailer does not meet the safety requirements for a GVWR of 8000.

This is an "extreme example" of cutting it as close as possible, but many of Keystone's trailers are built with axles that are less than the GVWR and depending on the trailer tongue weight, the trailer may or may not have overloaded axles based on the GVWR assigned by Keystone.

It's not just Keystone, I've seen similar "lightweight trailers on 3500 pound axles where the tongue weight was so close that you needed two batteries and full propane tanks to keep from overloading the axles.

That's one reason why I removed the 5200 pound axles (derated to 4400 pounds by Keystone) and installed 6000 pound axles on my trailer this past summer. I was tired of "hitting potholes on the interstate" and feeling like the axles were going to roll out from under the trailer.....

[CWtheMan]

I don't know why the information below is so misunderstood. It's very specific.

The unloaded vehicle weight (UVW) is the typical weight of the RV when it’s not carrying any cargo, water, or other gear. This is also known as the “dry weight.” UVW is the weight of your trailer after the manufacturer builds it and includes everything that it comes with from the factory.

If the vehicle is a recreation vehicle trailer and is equipped with a propane supply, the weight of full propane tanks must be included in the vehicle's unloaded vehicle weight.

[wiredgeorge]

Not to wander of the intent of this thread but I believe the OP was taken by the fact that a trailer the size of the one cited could be billed as "half ton towable"... Keystone does it and very likely someone in the Keystone management understands that the camper so billed "MIGHT BE HALF TON TOWABLE" if the perfect storm of equipment on a rare 1/2 ton truck is utilized. The Arcadia was going with 3/4 ton towable for awhile (not sure if they dropped that fantasy). The truck OEMs are complicit because they offer all those "TOW RATINGS" which are virtually never are realized because of the method of testing and fact that the vehicle used in the test was that rare bird (stripped model with gas engine, long wheel base and BIG tires and every tow package under the sun) that no one will ever own (in all liklihood). Both camper and truck manufacturers use marketing hype to lure in folks and this will never cease so it is what it is.

[wegone]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

not to wander of the intent of this thread but i believe the op was taken by the fact that a trailer the size of the one cited could be billed as "half ton towable"... Keystone does it and very likely someone in the keystone management understands that the camper so billed "might be half ton towable" if the perfect storm of equipment on a rare 1/2 ton truck is utilized. The arcadia was going with 3/4 ton towable for awhile (not sure if they dropped that fantasy). The truck oems are complicit because they offer all those "tow ratings" which are virtually never are realized because of the method of testing and fact that the vehicle used in the test was that rare bird (stripped model with gas engine, long wheel base and big tires and every tow package under the sun) that no one will ever own (in all liklihood). Both camper and truck manufacturers use marketing hype to lure in folks and this will never cease so it is what it is.

perfect.....exactly.

Perfect storm.

Indeed.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

I don't know why the information below is so misunderstood. It's very specific.

The unloaded vehicle weight (UVW) is the typical weight of the RV when it’s not carrying any cargo, water, or other gear. This is also known as the “dry weight.” UVW is the weight of your trailer after the manufacturer builds it and includes everything that it comes with from the factory.

If the vehicle is a recreation vehicle trailer and is equipped with a propane supply, the weight of full propane tanks must be included in the vehicle's unloaded vehicle weight.

I think it's misunderstood because, as usual, it's written in one way and translated by manufacturers in another. Yes, FMVSS says the propane is included in the UVW, NO it does not state that on the placard and is not required in my reading of the reg - hence confusion. Since my dealer adds the propane and propane tanks it would seem difficult for the factory to know what that was unless they "guesstimate" the avg. weight for those tanks, which isn't going to be accurate as there are different styles of propane tanks (I've had one set replaced at purchase because they appeared to be used).

A buyer only has a brochure, the internet (RV manufacturer websites) and forums to go by. They do not see FMVSS nor any other "government speak" except what is required on the placards....and anything to do with LP is not there. Just a thought on this beautiful Thursday morning I contemplate grilled shrimp or shrimp and sausage gumbo for dinner....ahh, the important things.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

I don't know why the information below is so misunderstood. It's very specific.

The unloaded vehicle weight (UVW) is the typical weight of the RV when it’s not carrying any cargo, water, or other gear. This is also known as the “dry weight.” UVW is the weight of your trailer after the manufacturer builds it and includes everything that it comes with from the factory.

If the vehicle is a recreation vehicle trailer and is equipped with a propane supply, the weight of full propane tanks must be included in the vehicle's unloaded vehicle weight.

Cal,

Your statements above are, according to Keystone's "Office of Responsibility", not the way they publish their website or brochure information. Again, for the 5th or 6th time, this is the email I received from Keystone about "HOW THEY PUBLISH SPECIFICATIONS"... Note the parts circled in yellow...

It's "clear as mud" to me that Keystone's legal department (actually THOR's legal department) does not interpret those regulations the same way that you do.

NOTE: My email reader displays emails "most recent on top" so the correspondence starts at the bottom and "reads up from there".....

[wegone]

Why......???

Just a thought on this beautiful Thursday morning I contemplate grilled shrimp or shrimp and sausage gumbo for dinner....ahh, the important things.

Why would you bury shrimp with sausage and drowned in a gumbo.
I wanna taste the shrimp as shrimp is

Here is how I grill shrimp.
Nothing worse than a over cooked shrimp, ARG!
I cook the shrimp over a fire in their frozen state peel still attached.
Cook until the peel is charred, remove, peel and dip the shrimp into whatever you want, I like garlic and butter, the meat inside is still perfectly moist.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

Why......???

Just a thought on this beautiful Thursday morning I contemplate grilled shrimp or shrimp and sausage gumbo for dinner....ahh, the important things.

Why would you bury shrimp with sausage and drowned in a gumbo.
I wanna taste the shrimp as shrimp is

Here is how I grill shrimp.
Nothing worse than a over cooked shrimp, ARG!
I cook the shrimp over a fire in their frozen state peel still attached.
Cook until the peel is charred, remove, peel and dip the shrimp into whatever you want, I like garlic and butter, the meat inside is still perfectly moist.

Eddie you need to expand your horizons. Frozen shrimp? Why not get them fresh when the boat comes in? You think a good roux buries a fresh shrimp's flavor and dipping sauces don't?? I've eaten shrimp, fresh and frozen, countless ways as it's one of our more favorite foods so I use them in soups, salads, grilled, fried, boiled etc. (and they're available). Bubba from Forrest Gump had a more extensive list but I don't recall them all...

[wegone]

Oh for sure fresh is way better, I've torn the heads off of them and eaten them right from the shrimp trap.
Our shrimp season is short nowadays, often just hours on a few select dates, makes it almost not worth shrimping.
Don't get me wrong, I like shrimp in pasta, etc, but the gumbo I've had, admittedly not in the south, had too much over-powering season that the shrimp was lost.
Even in a good cioppino I feel the shrimp can easily get lost when compared to mussels, clams, etc....
We have a little pink shrimp out here, like eating sunflower seeds, so sweet, wife and I will sit and eat a couple pounds of them

[CWtheMan]

You’re living in the real RV trailer world and speculating from that world. There are two RV trailer worlds: The consumers and the DOT regulations and standards. For a trailer to get into the consumer world it MUST qualify. To qualify it must follow ALL minimum regulations. RV trailers are built under the guidance of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). Any violating of those standards will require “recall” actions. The most common recall action is for incorrect federal certification labels.

Brochure information is not official, nor is any form of communication that does not provide a reference to the information in the communication.

The FMVSS has recently been reviewed by NHTSA and certified as being correct. So, let’s look at propane. As I have previously written, the information is valid. The dealers and consumers need to learn how to manage it. For a consumer to add weight of the actual propane it would be a double standard because it’s already been accounted for; same thing when adding or changing bottles. Those types of changes are found elsewhere in the FMVSS. For the trailer in this thread the weight information and its modifications can be found in FMVSS 571.110 starting in paragraph S10.

The things a dealer can change is limited. Tires must be of the same designated size as those depicted on the vehicle certification label. If supported by the vehicle manufacturer, optional tires may be used, and the trailer manufacturer will provide a new labeling.

Any weight added above 100# requires weight labeling changes. The dealer must do that.

When unsure of the information used in FMVSS, write to the address below. It’s has been my experience they will answer any valid question within a week’s time.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/fmvss/interpretations

[markdol1]

Originally Posted by markdol1

Hey homey i bought a 37.5 cougar that says half ton right on the front graphics , loaded it weighs 10800 .an f150 may move it but i sure as hell would not drive it a mile! Lance products are nice but WAY overpriced Shop around theres no rush and the market is really getting soft $700 bucks a month is a big nut,you can buy a nice house for that depending on where you live.

By the way Last week i installed a curt class 5 hitch with a 17,000 lb . carrying capacity and a 2550 lb tongue weight load capacity. Overkill but i wanted some more peace of mind!

[notanlines]

Just as a side note: The discussion of shrimp, gumbo, cioppino, fettuccini, and the like is infinitely more interesting than including weights of propane tanks from the factory.
I've found that wintering in Florida has one small drawback. Nobody makes any venison sausage or summer sausage. Frog legs and oysters are a good substitute, but when we summer in Wisconsin about half the locals are anxious to show off their wares from the previous hunting season.
Now, back to the RV doldrums.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Just as a side note: The discussion of shrimp, gumbo, cioppino, fettuccini, and the like is infinitely more interesting than including weights of propane tanks from the factory.
I've found that wintering in Florida has one small drawback. Nobody makes any venison sausage or summer sausage. Frog legs and oysters are a good substitute, but when we summer in Wisconsin about half the locals are anxious to show off their wares from the previous hunting season.
Now, back to the RV doldrums.

Just a short diversion....again Funny you should mention summer sausage. You're right, unless you go find something like Hillshire's summer sausage (which isn't that good) it's non existent. I've taken to bringing 2 sections homemade summer sausage with cheese and jalapeno from TX - made in the same meat market in central TX that I get my sausage for smoking and bratwurst.

I guess I don't know anyone good enough here to offer me venison. We are surrounded by wildlife refuges and they bring out all kinds of deer, ducks etc. I've had some tell me of their success hunting but no one offers to share their venison, duck or whatever is in season other than fish - we get plenty of fish. Now, back to LP tank weight, who put what where.....

[vampress_me]

Originally Posted by notanlines

I've found that wintering in Florida has one small drawback. Nobody makes any venison sausage or summer sausage. Frog legs and oysters are a good substitute, but when we summer in Wisconsin about half the locals are anxious to show off their wares from the previous hunting season.
Now, back to the RV doldrums.

Umm….question? Frog leg and oyster summer sausage? Is that really a thing?!?!

And, if you ever get over into MN from WI, go to the tiny town of Nicollet, MN to Schmidt’s Meat Market. They have the best summer sausage I’ve ever had from 5 states.

[notanlines]

Lynette, I certainly should have worded that differently! I can't imagine much worse than frog leg and shrimp sausage....
About once every summer we get on the bike and ride to Hinckley to get a caramel roll at Toby's Restaurant and Bakery. And then get a couple cinnamon rolls to go for breakfast the next morning. Only those who've been there realize that they might actually be worth a 100 mile ride one-way to enjoy.

Regretfully, Nicollet is the other direction. Until then we will just have to stay with www.louiesfinermeats.com in Cumberland, Wisconsin. Floridians just don't know what they're missing!

I don't want all the readers feeling sorry for us here in Florida. Today we will be headed to the Fellsmere Frog Leg Festival. Yum yum!

DW just reminded me that we'd be very close on the way back from Sturgis this summer. Sounds like a plan!

[jasin1]

unlimited supply?

seriously though for someone that has never had frog legs,how do you know if your getting “good” frog legs ? Do they take the toenails and flippers off? what’s the proper eating etiquette? and just like all crabs and lobsters aren’t the same depending on region..Florida lobsters are not the same as Maine lobster
(i had lobster in the keys that tasted as if it were raised in a settlement pond)

I don’t eat fried foods except an occasional french fry but IF my wife orders some what should i look for?

[wegone]

Well here on the island in the Pacific Northwest I have so many available foods to eat, FREE......

Of course the salmon, when I first moved here, I would catch too many, thinking I could share them with others, what a swell guy I was, until no one wanted any because they caught their own or others beat me to it.

Same with Dungeness crab.
I had freezers full of crab and it just doesn't taste as good as fresh.

I only keep what I will eat fresh now.

Clams, mussels, oysters.... ditto.

I can walk down to our private beach and harvest all I need in minutes.
The Manilla, or "steamer" clams are so plentiful, and make a great fettuccini and clam sauce. I let them "spit" a few days in a bucket of saltwater, changing the water out a few times a day. Then I quickly steam them without letting them touch water, do not BOIL them....as soon as they crack open, I remove them and plop them in a skillet of melted butter, garlic, and olive oil... then refrigerate overnight... slowly warm them back up, and poor over fresh pasta, my my...you won't eat any other spaghetti and clam sauce again once you taste mine because it just won't measure up.

Have a butter clam, it's bigger, about 4 to 6 inches across. I grab a half dozen of these and split them open, into two pieces. I remove the belly, rinse, then dredge them, meat side only in a flour and bread crumb dry mix.
Cook them shell side up in a shallow puddle of grease in a cast iron skillet, remove and drain when golden brown and crispy.....
Dust with garlic salt, pepper, sprinkle wasabi and soy sauce over them, and eat right out of the shell....DANG, beats any fried clams you buy at a restaurant....

[vampress_me]

You all are making me very hungry for some good seafood. I’m not too sure about frog legs though….

Jim, I may now have to take a trip into WI. Cumberland is basically straight east of us a couple of hours. And that meat market reminds me a lot of Schmidt’s. And, considering I do the 5.5 hour round trip to Nicollet a couple times a year to get meat, I think we may need to head east one day. I’ve eaten at Toby’s for breakfast when we head that direction, but guess I’ve missed out on the caramel rolls. The other rolls are definitely good, along with their breakfasts!

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by vampress_me

You all are making me very hungry for some good seafood. I’m not too sure about frog legs though….

Jim, I may now have to take a trip into WI. Cumberland is basically straight east of us a couple of hours. And that meat market reminds me a lot of Schmidt’s. And, considering I do the 5.5 hour round trip to Nicollet a couple times a year to get meat, I think we may need to head east one day. I’ve eaten at Toby’s for breakfast when we head that direction, but guess I’ve missed out on the caramel rolls. The other rolls are definitely good, along with their breakfasts!

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...IRIBEP&first=1

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...IRIBEP&first=1

thanks for the link