Exhaust Fluid System Fault

rjrelander · 07-29-2022, 06:43 PM

Got the dreaded "Check Engine Light" combined with the "Exhaust Fluid System Fault" on the F-350 the other day. Not the normal low-DEF warning. Plenty of DEF in the tank, apparently multiple things can cause it. 40 of 50 miles remaining before 50 MPH derating starts. (Thanks EPA.) Was going to pull the fault codes but not much I could do with them anyway. Even if you clear the codes (and fix whatever it was complaining about), it takes a special procedure to clear the main fault that requires some high-end diagnostic tool. Managed to get a service appointment at the Ford dealer for next Wednesday before week-long trip starting the following weekend. Wish me luck!

Really miss being able to fix things in the back yard.

**hankpage** · 07-29-2022, 07:52 PM

Good Luck!!! That is why they will bury me in my '04.

**JRTJH** · 07-29-2022, 07:56 PM

I just got my truck back from Ford with a new "torpedo with all the trimmings"..

My saga started in March with a Def tank heater fault, they replaced the Def tank heater and updated the emissions monitor in the computer system. About 100 miles of driving, the truck went into "50 miles to reduced mileage", Dealership reset the Def tank level monitor circuit and on the way home, truck went into limp mode/engine idle and I towed it to the dealership. They ran the diagnostics and it "qualified for a CSP repair of the Selective catalyst reduction system and the front/rear NOX sensors. Three months (yes THREE MONTHS) later, I got my truck back with a new emissions system (front to back), a new Def tank and heater assembly and we are negotiating an extended warranty on the entire truck at this time....

From what I have been told, the total repair bill is between $6K and 8K, but Ford isn't releasing the actual costs to repair. So far, after 200 miles, the truck is still running with no malfunction codes identified and no "check engine light" illuminated....

The delays, at least in my case, were caused by "no parts available" anywhere in the US. I finally wrote the CEO of Ford and recommended to him that if they are building thousands of superduty trucks every week and they all need the same SCR (torpedo) as my truck, why can't they ship one from Kentucky to my dealership? Amazingly, the part arrived about a week after I sent that "registered, return receipt required" letter to Ford.....

I wish you better luck than I had, but if I were you, I'd keep your plans for next weekend as flexible as you can......

HouseMouse · 07-30-2022, 02:16 AM

Wife ordered a new Bronco... (Two door) almost two years ago. Still haven't seen it. Parts on order, parts back ordered. If you remove the order for a winch or paint or wheels you may get it sooner. Yup, removing all that stuff it's no longer a special order. Wife just Canx her order. Ford has more problems than we know.

wiredgeorge · 07-30-2022, 04:36 AM

Ford is laying off MANY workers to finance the green new deal I believe:

https://news.yahoo.com/ford-plans-la...230054227.html

**sourdough** · 07-30-2022, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HouseMouse

Wife ordered a new Bronco... (Two door) almost two years ago. Still haven't seen it. Parts on order, parts back ordered. If you remove the order for a winch or paint or wheels you may get it sooner. Yup, removing all that stuff it's no longer a special order. Wife just Canx her order. Ford has more problems than we know.

Might be for the best. Been reading about a lot of failures in the new Broncos.

bsmith0404 · 07-30-2022, 06:49 AM

Thankfully the only problems I’ve ever had with the DEF system on my Duramax trucks was a #2 NOX sensor. Happened at about 40k miles on both of my 2011s. Haven’t had any issues with the 2019 yet. I don’t know why Ford can’t just disable the limp mode if they’re having that much trouble getting the parts. On my 2019 if I run it out of DEF the speed is reduced to 65. Only problem with that is the dash display will only show that the speed is reduced, it won’t let me look at the other pages for things like the trans temp and tire pressure. Of course, had trucks for many years that didn’t have reading s for those items….

Badbart56 · 07-30-2022, 07:00 AM

When I moved up to this 6.7 from my trusty and reliable 7.3 I made up my mind that if the emissions system failed I would do the delete. So about three years ago I got the check engine light and exhaust fluid system failure and took it to the dealer to see how much it was going to set me back. Surprisingly, they had extended the warranty time so that the reductant tank heater failure was covered. No problems since so I have 198xxx miles on it now and this truck is amazingly tight, can't really tell the difference in it and a new one. And the amazing part, coming from that old 7.3, it's almost as quiet as a gas motor and NO DIESEL SMELL from the exhaust! One of my friends who got a 6.7 before I did, got in my 7.3 to move it out of the driveway and stopped and looked at me and yelled, "I forgot how loud these things were"! Diesels have come a LONG way!

Badbart56 · 07-30-2022, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Thankfully the only problems I’ve ever had with the DEF system on my Duramax trucks was a #2 NOX sensor. Happened at about 40k miles on both of my 2011s. Haven’t had any issues with the 2019 yet. I don’t know why Ford can’t just disable the limp mode if they’re having that much trouble getting the parts. On my 2019 if I run it out of DEF the speed is reduced to 65. Only problem with that is the dash display will only show that the speed is reduced, it won’t let me look at the other pages for things like the trans temp and tire pressure. Of course, had trucks for many years that didn’t have reading s for those items….

I remember Ford having issues with the NOX sensors early on and notably someone pointed out that the trucks that were built with the ambulance package had a bypass mode, so yes, there is a way around it.

bsmith0404 · 07-30-2022, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badbart56

I remember Ford having issues with the NOX sensors early on and notably someone pointed out that the trucks that were built with the ambulance package had a bypass mode, so yes, there is a way around it.

I think they all had NOX sensor issues early on. Absolutely a way around it, it’s just software. If I remember correctly, GM disabled the limp mode back when they were having a lot of issues with the def tank heaters on earlier years. Personally, I think limp mode is a danger, have seen several trucks over the years limping along the highway at 15 mph trying to get to the next exit. I was really happy to see my speed would be reduced to 65 instead of limp mode the first time I ran mine out of DEF. I had 40 miles to get home and 150 miles before the speed limiting kicked in so never actually got into the reduced mode, but was glad to see it would have been 65 mph.

rjrelander · 08-02-2022, 06:18 AM

Yeah, this one is either a bad sensor or something causing a good sensor to read a bad value. Last two DEF fills have been Blue DEF so I don't think it's contamination. I topped off the DEF tank after I got the fault and it was only about a gallon low. Will post an update tomorrow after the "doctor" visit. Expecting the worst and hoping for the best.

I guess our next big trip is actually the week of August 14th instead of the week of the 7th so it can sit in the shop for at least a week. Still not a lot of time but better than two days.

**JRTJH** · 08-02-2022, 07:47 AM

The two NOX sensors are available in the Ford Parts Supply System.

If your truck throws a P20EE trouble code, it's the SCR (torpedo). Depending on the circumstances, it may or may not be covered under CSP 21N06. Mine was covered (thankfully).... There are no SCR units in the supply chain and my truck sat for 3 months (April, May and June) before the part came in. It "miraclously appeared" the week after I sent a registered, return receipt letter to the Ford CEO, Jim Farley.

I hope you get better news than I did !!!!!

bsmith0404 · 08-02-2022, 07:56 AM

How many miles are on the truck? I know everything with the diesel system for GM is covered for 100k miles, I though Ford and Ram were the same

rjrelander · 08-02-2022, 10:26 AM

A little over 100K miles or so (of course) but we bought it used this spring at about 89,000 miles and purchased 50K mile extended service that should cover it if it gets too nasty. So other than time in shop, we should be okay. Still have to dig up the paperwork but pretty sure we have all the diesel stuff covered including the exhaust fluid system.

rjrelander · 08-03-2022, 08:48 AM

Got it in the shop this morning. They want to keep it overnight since they don't think they can finish pinpointing the problem yet today so nothing obvious. Apparently so complicated that the basic underlying fault codes don't point to a direct cause. Didn't ask for a list of the fault codes. Hopefully giving the techs some experience points. :-)

Mikendebbie · 08-03-2022, 10:12 AM

Maybe the DEF program initiated by the EPA was really a jobs program to keep folks gainfully employed by having to fix all the DEF systems.

bsmith0404 · 08-03-2022, 11:02 AM

The government keeps a lot of people employed in a lot of industries as a result of government mandates. The worst part about it is someone initially develops this stuff and sells the government on it being a good idea.

ChuckS · 08-03-2022, 11:39 AM

While I like the looks of the new GMC Duramax I dont like the DEF system and do not like the 10 speed transmission..

They have made it so the 10 speed is not easily serviced.. No external spin on filter on the transmission.. Internal only.. While it may be just a dandy of a transmission the Allison 6 speed is much easier for routine filter and fluid change ( external filter only required ) and there is a fluid level dipstick to verify proper fluid level

bsmith0404 · 08-03-2022, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS

While I like the looks of the new GMC Duramax I dont like the DEF system and do not like the 10 speed transmission..

They have made it so the 10 speed is not easily serviced.. No external spin on filter on the transmission.. Internal only.. While it may be just a dandy of a transmission the Allison 6 speed is much easier for routine filter and fluid change ( external filter only required ) and there is a fluid level dipstick to verify proper fluid level

With the Allison I have been using a mag Hytec deep pan and either Amsoil or Transynd fluid. The deep pan has a drain plug and the Amsoil or Transynd have a 100k mile fluid change recommendation. Personally, I’d drain/drop the pan and change the internal fluid at 50k (about once every 4-5 years for me) that also takes 3.5 gallons of fluid, so about 50% of the capacity changed out every 50k.

I don’t have an opinion on the 10 speed other than it seems to just have smaller steps which gives a greater tow capacity. I don’t think it was needed.

As for the DEF system, with 3 different dmax trucks over the past 12 years and about 250k miles driven, only issue I ever had was the number 2 NOX sensor on the 2011s.

ChuckS · 08-03-2022, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

With the Allison I have been using a mag Hytec deep pan and either Amsoil or Transynd fluid. The deep pan has a drain plug and the Amsoil or Transynd have a 100k mile fluid change recommendation. Personally, I’d drain/drop the pan and change the internal fluid at 50k (about once every 4-5 years for me) that also takes 3.5 gallons of fluid, so about 50% of the capacity changed out every 50k.

I don’t have an opinion on the 10 speed other than it seems to just have smaller steps which gives a greater tow capacity. I don’t think it was needed.

As for the DEF system, with 3 different dmax trucks over the past 12 years and about 250k miles driven, only issue I ever had was the number 2 NOX sensor on the 2011s.

All I ever use is Transynd fluid.. I have 160K now on the LBZ and Allison six speed.. pan never dropped and Allison states do not drop the pan and replace internal filter unless rebuilding or other issues

The spin on filter and magnet catch it all.. IMO

I change my fluid and spin on every 25K miles regardless .. fluid is always noc3 and red.. Tis what I wanna see,

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