Cargo limit question

[BowlerBob]

Hi All. I know my numbers are speculative since I don't have actual weights and am going off the stickers. I also know that if you have the option to use a bigger truck the towing experience will be better comfort and safety. With that said I appreciate you taking the time to read my thoughts and offering any advice you have.

The DW and I just bought a 2022 Outback 221umd (pick up next weekend) with the hopes that we can pull it with our F-150 instead of our F-250 since we are trying to downsize all around and the 150 has a smoother ride. We loved the Outback and it is 6 ft shorter and 1700# less than our previous trailer. We actually saw it four months ago at a show and haven't been able to shake it from out minds.

I'm trying to figure out if we will be beyond the cargo capacity of the F-150 which is 1578#. The F-150 is a 2013 3.5 Eco boost XTL SuperCrew with a 5.5 box and axle ratio of 3.31. If my calculations are correct we can tow up to 9,300#, but that 1578# payload is the limiting factor that has me worried about towing safely. Of course the dealer said we were well within our limits, but he was mainly going off that 9,300 number and when I started talking about tongue and cargo weight he wanted to change the subject and dismissed my thoughts.

Trailer sticker says dry weight is 5300 with GVWR of 7200 and a hitch weight of 600. We will have 60 lbs of propane tank and two batteries which will add to that 600 number I am sure.

My thoughts are that 13% of GVWR would be 936 for the tongue and then adding in 578 for the passengers of the truck would leave only about 64# for cargo. That

If I set the 13% of 6600 (maybe a little more realistic for trailer weight, but it adds up quickly) would be 858 for the tongue and the 578 for passengers leaves 142# which seems a little better, but....

In both situations above I am not even counting the WDH which I am sure will also need to be calculated in the mix.

We were hoping getting a smaller trailer we could stop towing with our F-250, but I have a feeling in the back of my head saying we are pushing the cargo limits if not going over them. I see people tow with what looks like similar set ups, but are they not thinking about cargo capacity or perhaps their passengers and cargo don't add up to what ours do.

Right now, we were thinking of picking up the trailer with the 150 and having them set the hitch and WD (hoping they do it correctly) for it. Then using the 2.5 hour drive home to see how things feel. I just keep going back to the cargo capacity and wonder if since we may end up having to tow with the 250, that we should have them set up everything for that truck.

Thanks for taking the time to read through my post. I hope it makes a little sense.

[GHen]

Many people will give you their recommendations on the weight issues.

Your F250 probably also has bigger brakes, larger engine and transmission cooling system, larger fuel capacity, greater fuel travel range, more power for traveling up passes and probably better towing transmission.

[BowlerBob]

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking the same thing. That’s mainly why I’m second guessing the truck we tow with. I’m just glad we have the optio and don’t have to find a new truck to match the trailer we wanted.

[wiredgeorge]

The first critical number is your trucks payload. The camper will have about 13 percent of the gross weight of the trailer as its tongue weight and the published weight Keystone lists really isn't reality once the trailer is loaded. This puts your tongue weight at about 936 lbs. You already did the math after adding the weight of your trailer hitch and passengers so you know you are right up against the payload capacity. Your F150 isn't the right truck for that camper as there isn't enough margin for safety and you will actually be more comfortable pulling it with a 3/4 ton. I personally would skip the 3/4 ton and go right to a one ton and you will find the ride and comfort are not compromised. The one ton will provide plenty of safety margin and ride as well as your 1/2 ton.

[chuckster57]

IMO your going to be over with the 150, your going to be ok with the 250.

[flybouy]

I wouldn't feel all warm and fuzzy about a 142 lbs of remaining cargo capacity that likely doesn’t even exist. First you are correct the WDH needs to be added to the weight of the truck, typically about 120 to 150 lbs.

Next you are assuming that the truck has had nothing added to it in 9 years? No tools? No tonneau cover, or mud flaps, or no change in the cup holder? EVERYTHING placed in or on the truck removes payload, to say nothing of age and wear on suspension components. If you really want to know the payload put the hitch, people, pets, drinks, snaks, and whatever else you would take in the truck to go camping and visit a Cat Scale. Subtract the scaled weight from the truck GVW (not the combined GVW) and what's remaining is the truck payload that's left. You'll be amazed how quickly that payload evaporates.

We haven't even begun talking about handling, especially with passenger tires vs LT tires, lighter frame, etc of the F150. The salesman will tell you what you want to hear so they can make a sale, period. Lastly, the hitch setup from the dealer may not be correct. Two factors on setting up the hitch, first it should be done at the loaded weight and not empty. Secondly, I doubt they will take the time to have you roadtesr the setup and then make adjustments. Of course all dealers are different, some better than others.

[NH_Bulldog]

My thoughts in a nutshell; too much trailer, not enough truck.

Expanding on that; towing capacity is simply the ability of the truck to move a weight forward. Can your truck pull that trailer? Yes, but in 4x4 low on dry pavement you could also tow the space shuttle (like that Toyota ad several years back).

We have a similar set-up both truck and trailer, but we have the heavy duty package which gives us about 1,000 lbs. more cargo capacity on the truck than yours.

Our 240BH is 7,000 GVWR and our tongue weight has been scaled at 925 lbs.(despite published figure of 551 lbs.). Add 100 lbs. for WD hitch, and all you have left for capacity on the truck for people, pets, and anything not factory original is about 400 lbs. although you estimate that you need 578 lbs. this leaves nothing for any safety factor or unknowns.

I would stop there and advise more truck.

[Ribtip]

F-250 will be all good.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

F-250 will be all good.

My sis has a Ram 3/4 ton Laramie and her payload is barely over 2000 lbs. Not sure why folks want to buy a new 3/4 ton unless it has a much better payload. Some are just north of 3K lbs and I would look there if I had to have a 3/4 ton but the one ton does away with the payload question for this OP.

[BowlerBob]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

My sis has a Ram 3/4 ton Laramie and her payload is barely over 2000 lbs. Not sure why folks want to buy a new 3/4 ton unless it has a much better payload. Some are just north of 3K lbs and I would look there if I had to have a 3/4 ton but the one ton does away with the payload question for this OP.

My f-250 has 1200 more payload than my f-150, so much more margin for cargo.

[BowlerBob]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

The first critical number is your trucks payload. The camper will have about 13 percent of the gross weight of the trailer as its tongue weight and the published weight Keystone lists really isn't reality once the trailer is loaded. This puts your tongue weight at about 936 lbs. You already did the math after adding the weight of your trailer hitch and passengers so you know you are right up against the payload capacity. Your F150 isn't the right truck for that camper as there isn't enough margin for safety and you will actually be more comfortable pulling it with a 3/4 ton. I personally would skip the 3/4 ton and go right to a one ton and you will find the ride and comfort are not compromised. The one ton will provide plenty of safety margin and ride as well as your 1/2 ton.

I wouldn’t mind getting a 1 ton, but that’s not in the budget and my f-250 pulls our current trailer comfortably that weighs more than the new trailer does.

Thanks for your reply.

[BowlerBob]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

IMO your going to be over with the 150, your going to be ok with the 250.

Thanks for the reply. My dream was that the 150 would tow it, but the more I think about it and know we want to be safe has me thinking I need to tow with the 250.

[BowlerBob]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I wouldn't feel all warm and fuzzy about a 142 lbs of remaining cargo capacity that likely doesn’t even exist. First you are correct the WDH needs to be added to the weight of the truck, typically about 120 to 150 lbs.

Next you are assuming that the truck has had nothing added to it in 9 years? No tools? No tonneau cover, or mud flaps, or no change in the cup holder? EVERYTHING placed in or on the truck removes payload, to say nothing of age and wear on suspension components. If you really want to know the payload put the hitch, people, pets, drinks, snaks, and whatever else you would take in the truck to go camping and visit a Cat Scale. Subtract the scaled weight from the truck GVW (not the combined GVW) and what's remaining is the truck payload that's left. You'll be amazed how quickly that payload evaporates.

We haven't even begun talking about handling, especially with passenger tires vs LT tires, lighter frame, etc of the F150. The salesman will tell you what you want to hear so they can make a sale, period. Lastly, the hitch setup from the dealer may not be correct. Two factors on setting up the hitch, first it should be done at the loaded weight and not empty. Secondly, I doubt they will take the time to have you roadtesr the setup and then make adjustments. Of course all dealers are different, some better than others.

Thanks for your reply.

I don’t feel all warm and fuzzy. Actually, the safety margin and going up or down a mountain has me shaking with thoughts of towing in the 150 and we haven’t even hitched up.

Thanks for confirming my thinking and making me feel like I’m not crazy or overthinking it.

[travelin texans]

For safety, power & the best handling while towing stick with the F250. The F150 will move it, but as you've already calculated is right at it's limit & I'll garauntee it won't get lighter only heavier. You've already traded rvs once to a smaller one, you may find it gets even smaller very quickly on bad weather days, so there may be another trade down the line so keep the biggest truck. You currently have 2 vehicles, if you don't need 2 trucks trade the F150 for a comfortable economical non towing vehicle.

[BowlerBob]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

My thoughts in a nutshell; too much trailer, not enough truck.

Expanding on that; towing capacity is simply the ability of the truck to move a weight forward. Can your truck pull that trailer? Yes, but in 4x4 low on dry pavement you could also tow the space shuttle (like that Toyota ad several years back).

We have a similar set-up both truck and trailer, but we have the heavy duty package which gives us about 1,000 lbs. more cargo capacity on the truck than yours.

Our 240BH is 7,000 GVWR and our tongue weight has been scaled at 925 lbs.(despite published figure of 551 lbs.). Add 100 lbs. for WD hitch, and all you have left for capacity on the truck for people, pets, and anything not factory original is about 400 lbs. although you estimate that you need 578 lbs. this leaves nothing for any safety factor or unknowns.

I would stop there and advise more truck.

Thanks for the reply. Darn that payload number, probably the most overlooked number when people look at what they can tow safely.

If I could gain payload I would, but know that’s not in the budget when I have another truck that will do the job as it sits.

[BowlerBob]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

F-250 will be all good.

Thanks. Those are my thoughts and was mainly looking for confirmation that I wasn’t overthinking something.

[BowlerBob]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

For safety, power & the best handling while towing stick with the F250. You've already upgraded rvs once, there may be another down the line so keep the biggest truck. You currently have 2 vehicles, if you don't need 2 trucks trade the F150 for comfortable economical non towing vehicle.

Thanks. Very good advice. The thing with buying this trailer was that we saw it at a show and loved it. Thought about it for 4 months then found one not too far from home and we didn’t need to worry about if we had enough truck to pull the trailer we wanted and we were able to get it without having to stress about upgrading a truck since we knew we already had at least one that could pull it.

We will probably keep both since they are paid off and we don’t need a new car payment.

[sourdough]

I hate to sound like a broken record but the 250 is what you want for that trailer. Besides from the obvious lack of payload on the 150 and smaller brakes, the 150 has a 3.31 rear axle ratio; what you use to get mileage driving down the highway not power OR towing ability. A 7k trailer will kill the 3.31 plus the engine trying to pull with it. The 250 is the route to go.

[Roper46]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

My sis has a Ram 3/4 ton Laramie and her payload is barely over 2000 lbs. Not sure why folks want to buy a new 3/4 ton unless it has a much better payload. Some are just north of 3K lbs and I would look there if I had to have a 3/4 ton but the one ton does away with the payload question for this OP.

My current truck only has 2097# of payload. The Cummins engine is a heavy beast. I weighed my loaded rig a couple months ago and was about 200# over payload. And that was loaded with just myself.

With that said, hence my 3500 in my sig on order. I also just spoke with GM this morning and have a production date of one week from today, 01/24/21.

[BowlerBob]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I hate to sound like a broken record but the 250 is what you want for that trailer. Besides from the obvious lack of payload on the 150 and smaller brakes, the 150 has a 3.31 rear axle ratio; what you use to get mileage driving down the highway not power OR towing ability. A 7k trailer will kill the 3.31 plus the engine trying to pull with it. The 250 is the route to go.

I appreciate the broken record, thanks.

My wife would kill me if we blew up the engine on the 150, she loves that truck. Especially since we have a truck that will tow the new trailer without problems.