Complete electrical shutdown, any ideas

[notanlines]

We have had three electrical shutdowns by our system because of high voltage on the pedestal. On each of them our complete system is off, 12 volt included will not work. No lights, no generator, nothing I'm at a loss. Any ideas on where to start?

[chuckster57]

Does everything return to normal after a short period of time?

If so I’m wondering if the spike sends to much to the battery(s) and pops the resettable circuit breaker on the battery lead.

You do have an EMS?

[dutchmensport]

Do you have an EMS (surge protector) on your camper. When they detect power fux they are designed to shut the trailer down. The better ones will reset after a while, or at least when you unplug shore power and plug back in again?

If not, it's VERY possible a power surge fried stuff inside your camper.

[notanlines]

Yes, we do have a built-in EMS, and yes, everything does return to normal in the same 15 minute span.

[chuckster57]

I can understand the AC stuff shutting off, it’s the loss of 12V that has me wondering. I would follow the battery lead to the first connection, probably a circuit breaker.

Check the voltage at the battery, unplug and check again so you know that your converter is working and your battery isn’t shot. Then if it happens again, test for voltage on each side of the circuit breaker.

[jasin1]

I’m wondering if your transfer switch is still seeing voltage

Maybe it’s wired so the ems is protecting your panel but wired after the the transfer switch? The ems is keeping all of your inside power off but the transfer switch doesn’t know to switch over to generator…..if you were completely disconnected ..ie the cord pulled out of site receptacle it would switch over.


Or a bad transfer switch…wiredgeorge had that happened to brother-in-law brand new rv if I remember correctly.
The 12 volt could be related as the resettable fuses could be popped but the converter is off until the ems resets.
Could also be a bad battery on the 12 volt side that is a coincidence and showing itself when the other problem happens.
Possibly converter was overcharging for a moment before ems kicked out and tripped resettable fuses

If it happens again unplug from shore power and see if it switches to generator

You would never see this problem arise or be able to test it unless you were plugged into shore power and the ems was in protection mode because of power issues on the pedestal

If you were plugged in to shore power and switched off the pedestal breaker then the transfer switch would not see voltage and would then work normally

[notanlines]

"Check the voltage at the battery, unplug and check again so you know that your converter is working and your battery isn’t shot."
I will check both batteries, etc, as soon as we return from the physical therapist and report back.

[flybouy]

First question, is your site the only site with this issue? The loss of the 12vdc is what's concerning to me. The only correlation or direct connection of the 120v ac and 12v dc system is the converter. That would be my first suspect as loosing both systems is not a coincidence .

As a footnote I hope your wife is progressing well. I like the old shows on Grit but not as an only channel to watch.

[sourdough]

I'm thinking batteries. If you lose AC power because the EMS shuts down the 12v side should still work if the batteries were good. If you lose power and the batteries are bad you would lose both 120vac and 12vdc until the converter came back on line with the AC to then give you 12vdc again. Good luck at the the physical therapist.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I'm thinking batteries. If you lose AC power because the EMS shuts down the 12v side should still work if the batteries were good. If you lose power and the batteries are bad you would lose both 120vac and 12vdc until the converter came back on line with the AC to then give you 12vdc again. Good luck at the the physical therapist.

I agree but his generator should kick in unless the transfer switch is wired before the ems..that’s why I think batteries or bad resettable fuse is also the problem

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

I agree but his generator should kick in unless the transfer switch is wired before the ems..that’s why I think batteries or bad resettable fuse is also the problem

Hypothetically, if the batteries are discharged, there's no power to turn over the generator starter to get it running.. Blown "reverse polarity fuses" on the converter would prevent ALL trailer power when the EMS shuts down shore power and the generator can't start without battery power which is recharged by the converter, only so long as the reverse polarity fuses are intact.....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by jasin1

I agree but his generator should kick in unless the transfer switch is wired before the ems..that’s why I think batteries or bad resettable fuse is also the problem

Ahhh, genset...missed that.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Hypothetically, if the batteries are discharged, there's no power to turn over the generator starter to get it running.. Blown "reverse polarity fuses" on the converter would prevent ALL trailer power when the EMS shuts down shore power and the generator can't start without battery power which is recharged by the converter, only so long as the reverse polarity fuses are intact.....

Hmmm I didn’t consider the batteries not being able to start the genset


I still stand by my wired before the ems theory lol

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Hmmm I didn’t consider the batteries not being able to start the genset


I still stand by my wired before the ems theory lol

Yep, and you may well be right... There are several "transfer switch wiring systems" that don't have the capacity to charge the generator starting battery and most Cummins/Onan generators don't have a charging circuit. There are also some that do... That's one of the "motivators" for installing an automatic start system on the generator, so it will start and then recharge the battery bank BEFORE they get too low to "save the generator starting capacity"...

Lots of potentials for where the transfer switch is wired and how it applies power to the coach... But, if when shore power is lost, the battery power is also lost, to me anyway, leads me down the path of dead batteries. Battery power shouldn't be tied to a transfer switch, so to lose ALL power in two separate electrical systems...... Dead batteries or a bad 12 volt circuit breaker seems to be the probable cause for the 12 volt part of the system. And, if the generator won't start, if it doesn't even "try to start" again that leads back to battery power....

Who knows ??? But no doubt, Jim will keep us up to date on what he finds...

[jasin1]

I tip my hat to you kind sir…I await the final outcome https://gfycat.com/devotedlazyarmywo...yshack-gat-tip

[notanlines]

I wish the final outcome was here.
Chapter2: I just got home, broke out the meter and disconnected the batteries at both ends. Voltage read 13.62 volts. Hooked ends back and voltage read 13.52. I crawled inside to the 12V circuit breaker and it also read 13.52 volts.
Florida Power and Light people showed up and reworked some aluminum connections at our main box. Hmmmm....
Now my EMS is blank as Beaver's test paper. Picture shown below. And it's dark and the mosquitos are out. Time for a couple Yuengling's. I'll keep everybody up on any progress. And yes, Lord knows I'm still as lost as I was in the beginning. Suggestions/opinions/tests welcome!

[jasin1]

Sorry to hear about your troubles

Will the generator start manually right now?
I’d check and verify that your shore power is getting to the 1st junction …either transfer switch or ems

If nothing is lit on the ems then it seems as if it’s either bad or not getting voltage..maybe it took too many hits from the sketchy pedestal and died.

Dont know why you wouldn’t have 12 volt from the battery’s although I’d probably unplug from the pedestal and see what happens with 12 volt and then see if genny works

Maybe you are losing one leg of power and the converter is out of the equation and not charging the battery at times…the transfer switch sees enough voltage not to switch over?

Eh I’m just guessing but I usually brainstorm to try and figure things out…hope you figure it out soon

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jasin1

I agree but his generator should kick in unless the transfer switch is wired before the ems..that’s why I think batteries or bad resettable fuse is also the problem

Originally Posted by notanlines

I wish the final outcome was here.
Chapter2: I just got home, broke out the meter and disconnected the batteries at both ends. Voltage read 13.62 volts. Hooked ends back and voltage read 13.52. I crawled inside to the 12V circuit breaker and it also read 13.52 volts.
Florida Power and Light people showed up and reworked some aluminum connections at our main box. Hmmmm....
Now my EMS is blank as Beaver's test paper. Picture shown below. And it's dark and the mosquitos are out. Time for a couple Yuengling's. I'll keep everybody up on any progress. And yes, Lord knows I'm still as lost as I was in the beginning. Suggestions/opinions/tests welcome!

I don’t think it's a coincidence that they are working on the pedestal and now your EMS Iis dead. Your battery voltage looks fine so doesn't make sense that interior lights don’t work unless they go thru a remote system like InCommand. You may have taken a hit caused by the pedestal that's caused damage. Can you find out what the power company found?

[wiredgeorge]

Once they get done fiddling with the power, check power coming in to the hardwired EMS and see if you are getting the correct AC voltage. Does that make sense? Check AC coming out of the EMS and going to the breakers and converter. If nada, bypass the EMS and see if Progressive will honor its warranty and see how fast they will send it while you go direct from pedestal to AC breakers. Then, of course, check out of your converter if there is no DC as the converter may be toast but I am guessing the EMS fried if the power now coming off the pedestal is now ok.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Those voltage readings are from the converter. A battery won't hold voltage high. The batteries need to be checked after the RV is unplugged and allowed to rest for a bit, or the batteries disconnected from the RV.